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Forums :: Blog World :: Michael Pachla: The many layers of the Alexander Nylander for Henri Jokiharju trade
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Lunaion
Joined: 05.23.2016

Jul 11 @ 12:04 PM ET
Dallas has 970K to sign Julius Honka, with a roster of 23 players inc. Honka. They will absolutely need to make a trade, unless Stephen Johns is put onto LTIR.
- TheSabresTaco


This seems really easy to mange. Honka's not in line for a significant deal.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:04 PM ET
Laine is a sure thing. He guarantees you 30 goals a year.

First three years -

Laine - 110 goals - .77 ppg
Skinner - 64 goals - .69 ppg

Laine is already better than Skinner. I believe that.

- ImThatGuy

Nah.

You can add 6-7 goals Skinner accounts for on his elite penalty drawing ability as well.
As of today it’s no contest. Skinner is the better player
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:05 PM ET
Nah.

You can add 6-7 goals Skinner accounts for on his elite penalty drawing ability as well.
As of today it’s no contest. Skinner is the better player

- sbroads24


Except he is not at all.

I think we should ask the entire NHL who they would rather have.

It would be 98% Laine
2% Skinner

Skinners 2% would be insufferable Buffalo fans.

dadeadhead
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I don't want to say Greztky was a dude when I was watching. Mentalorgasm5 , NY
Joined: 07.16.2006

Jul 11 @ 12:06 PM ET
If you take out his first 3 years in the league, which he didn't start, and still put up very respectable numbers, he's averaging 114 catches, 1524 yards, and 11 TDs over 6 years. Those are debatable top 10 numbers and Homie's right. He can be slotted anywhere from 5 to about 20 depending on how you want to phrase your argument.
- SDSabre




Problem is he isn’t even the best receiver from his era.

Johnson and Fitzgerald are better by a wide margin.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Reluctant bridge jumper; 6th round OHL draft pick, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Jul 11 @ 12:06 PM ET
You worry about that later.
Get the guy that scores a lot.

- ImThatGuy


I would worry about it now before you give the guy the big bucks. Is he playing L1 with Skinner and Eichel? There's only so much puck to go around. He hasn't shown that he can carry his own line to any degree yet either.

I'd rather they find a balanced guy similar to Reinhart who can do a bit of everything than give Laine the big bucks to hammer PP goals in Eichel's spot
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 12:07 PM ET
This seems really easy to mange. Honka's not in line for a significant deal.
- Lunaion


He's in line for a contract around that cost. Gives you exactly, or almost exactly zero dollars. What happens if (when) the Stars need to call a guy up because someone is either DTD or on IR for a week? They can't do that, because they have.. zero dollars.
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:07 PM ET

- homiedclown


Bump for the conversation happening right now.
adambuffalo
Buffalo Sabres
Location: United States, NY
Joined: 01.30.2007

Jul 11 @ 12:07 PM ET
Nah.

You can add 6-7 goals Skinner accounts for on his elite penalty drawing ability as well.
As of today it’s no contest. Skinner is the better player

- sbroads24

If you called Winnipeg and offered Skinner for Laine straight up I think you would get a dial tone pretty damn quick.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:07 PM ET
Except he is not at all.

I think we should ask the entire NHL who they would rather have.

It would be 98% Laine
2% Skinner

Skinners 2% would be insufferable Buffalo fans.

- ImThatGuy

The 2% would be the people who analyze things past basic counting stats that show Skinner is absolutely better.

But carry on

If I could figure out how to post pictures here without it screwing up the page, I’d show you just how bad Laine has been past his goal totals
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 12:08 PM ET
Except he is not at all.

I think we should ask the entire NHL who they would rather have.

It would be 98% Laine
2% Skinner

Skinners 2% would be insufferable Buffalo fans.

- ImThatGuy


What a rebuttal.

"You could be right. Probably not, though."
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 12:09 PM ET
Today, right now, is Skinner better than Laine.

If you say no, there is literally nothing you can do to prove it other than goals.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Reluctant bridge jumper; 6th round OHL draft pick, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Jul 11 @ 12:10 PM ET
Today, right now, is Skinner better than Laine.

If you say no, there is literally nothing you can do to prove it other than *goals.

- TheSabresTaco




* Not including 2018-19

Where Skinner was better
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:10 PM ET
Today, right now, is Skinner better than Laine.

If you say no, there is literally nothing you can do to prove it other than goals.

- TheSabresTaco

Post their RAPM charts. For some reason I cannot
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:12 PM ET
The 2% would be the people who analyze things past basic counting stats that show Skinner is absolutely better.

But carry on

If I could figure out how to post pictures here without it screwing up the page, I’d show you just how bad Laine has been past his goal totals

- sbroads24


I can show you a chart that says Alex IafAllo is better than Anze Kopitar. Discuss.

Skinner was constantly demoted in Carolina for not playing defense, and floating.

Skinner has been in the league how many years and has been to the playoffs exactly how many times?

You win the game by scoring more goals than the other team.

The Sabres already have skinner. If you have a chance to also get Laine you do whatever it takes
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:12 PM ET
If you called Winnipeg and offered Skinner for Laine straight up I think you would get a dial tone pretty damn quick.
- adambuffalo

Probably because one is 21 years old.

All things equal it really isn’t that close.

Laine is legit terrible 5 on 5 the past 2 seasons.

Like WPG is worse when he’s on the ice
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:13 PM ET
I didn’t realize I was talking to Schoop and Jeremy White today on this board.

Advanced stats are the only thing that matters, I need nothing else to show who is better.


Fack, where is Bingo when I need him.
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:14 PM ET
I didn’t realize I was talking to Schoop and Jeremy White today on this board.

Advanced stats are the only thing that matters, I need nothing else to show who is better.


Fack, where is Bingo when I need him.

- ImThatGuy

You realize Skinner’s counting stats are better than Laine’s this season, right?
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:15 PM ET
Probably because one is 21 years old.

All things equal it really isn’t that close.

Laine is legit terrible 5 on 5 the past 2 seasons.

Like WPG is worse when he’s on the ice

- sbroads24


So we should not want to trade for Laine?

I know let’s trade Risto for Joel Armia instead.

His advanced stats are fracking great.

It shows he is better than Laine.
SDSabre
Buffalo Sabres
Joined: 02.05.2014

Jul 11 @ 12:16 PM ET
Problem is he isn’t even the best receiver from his era.

Johnson and Fitzgerald are better by a wide margin.

- dadeadhead


Firzgerald is the number 2 in yards for his career (3 in receptions, will be 2 after this year, and 6th in TD's)

AB and Calvin are a lot closer in every category then you are giving AB credit for for their careers. On a game to game average AB might even have the edge (too lazy to look it up, but point is they're very close). With how the NFL has transformed into a pass happy league, even if I grant you that AB is only the 3rd best from the era (which again, highly debatable that he's behind Calvin) one can make the case he's top 10.
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Reluctant bridge jumper; 6th round OHL draft pick, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Jul 11 @ 12:17 PM ET
Probably because one is 21 years old.

All things equal it really isn’t that close.

Laine is legit terrible 5 on 5 the past 2 seasons.

Like WPG is worse when he’s on the ice

- sbroads24


You're paying him to hammer howitzers on the PP, which he is great at.

It's also where we already have Eichel. I agree that Laine is better there on the half wall than Eichel, but if the $10m rumors are true, it seems like an insane decision to considering the situation currently
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:17 PM ET
So we should not want to trade for Laine?

I know let’s trade Risto for Joel Armia instead.

His advanced stats are fracking great.

It shows he is better than Laine.

- ImThatGuy

Paying Laine 9+ mil is the issue. He’s no where near that caliber player as of today.
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:17 PM ET
You realize Skinner’s counting stats are better than Laine’s this season, right?
- sbroads24


What about the year before that, and the year before that?

This was Laines worst season as a pro and he easily put up 50 points.

But nah, 21 year olds with the ability to score 40 goals grow on tress.
ImThatGuy
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would bet my life savings that Cody Franson would outplay Ristolainen if given 20 minutes per nigh, GA
Joined: 11.04.2010

Jul 11 @ 12:18 PM ET
Paying Laine 9+ mil is the issue. He’s no where near that caliber player as of today.
- sbroads24


Neither is Skinner.

Eichel did nothing to deserve 10 mil but you paid based on potential.

You are doing the exact same for Laine.
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 12:18 PM ET
poopty
sbroads24
Buffalo Sabres
Location: We are in 30th place. It's 2017 , NY
Joined: 02.12.2012

Jul 11 @ 12:18 PM ET
What about the year before that, and the year before that?

This was Laines worst season as a pro and he easily put up 50 points.

But nah, 21 year olds with the ability to score 40 goals grow on tress.

- ImThatGuy

Well yes, because I said exactly this
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