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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: What I really think of the Jokiharju / Nylander trade
Author Message
Matt Ross
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 03.15.2013

Jul 10 @ 9:50 PM ET
I am excited to see what Nylander can bring in terms of skill but awfully worried about all of the other stuff.

Thought Joki had enough confidence... heard he was even cocky at times. We'll see how he works out in Buffalo.

Don't say anything about Stranger Things... not finished yet. Ha.

- Tyler Cameron


No spoilers, don’t worry!
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: The Dach Side
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 10 @ 9:50 PM ET
I am excited to see what Nylander can bring in terms of skill but awfully worried about all of the other stuff.

Thought Joki had enough confidence... heard he was even cocky at times. We'll see how he works out in Buffalo.

Don't say anything about Stranger Things... not finished yet. Ha.

- Tyler Cameron



OMG... season 3 was amazing. One of the things I like about ST is that all three season have a different feel yet are equally fantastic.

I get why people are upset with the Jokiharju deal, but Stan's offseason shouldn't be judged by this one move. With the addition of de Haan and Maatta the defense is much better than last season. Goaltending is vastly improved for next season and possible beyond. The situation at forward is much more positive with the addition of Shaw and Carpenter (not stellar but effective) while re-upping Kampf.

Nylander doesn't have to be NHL ready next season, I believe the deal was made for the future and not right now. But the Hawks have a group of forwards in Nylander, Kubalik, Wedin, Sikura, Dach and Quenneville who could make an impact too. Not all of them need to hit next season, 1-2 would be great.
Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Jul 10 @ 9:51 PM ET
Say hawks put AA and Perlini as a trade package what team would be a fit and for what are the hawks looking for specifically? Or would it be a cash dump and Perlini is the sweetern in the deal? Imo Ottawa rangers islanders florida Carolina and Columbus are most likely teams for a possible trade to be had.
- Scott1977


I see OTT and CBJ as fits if both are moved together.

However if AA and Perlini are packaged, I would want to see a C coming back - preferably on a short-term deal.

Pageau in OTT and Riley Nash in CBJ would make sense.

I'm not advocating (although Pageau would be a solid 3C) but just stating what could make sense.
Budi1782
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 08.06.2013

Jul 10 @ 9:52 PM ET
After all the recent moves, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Mitchell decides to play out his college career and goes the UFA route.

Can't say I blame him. Once a player has reached the end of their ELC, off they go.


If anything, it would be the exact opposite. This is the Hawks giving him the green light that they want him in the lineup late this year and certainly next year by clearing room for him. If Gus moves on or is traded, Boqvist is the replacement. And then you can envision room for Mitchell if Seabrook is somehow pushed to #7 and then you just punt Koekkoek and Dahlstrom. Or maybe Murphy gets dealt and he replaces him.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 10 @ 9:52 PM ET
Interested to see how Slavin performs in prospect camp. I remember last year Q singeled him out as being very impressed with him.
Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Jul 10 @ 9:54 PM ET
If anything, it would be the exact opposite. This is the Hawks giving him the green light that they want him in the lineup late this year and certainly next year by clearing room for him. If Gus moves on or is traded, Boqvist is the replacement. And then you can envision room for Mitchell if Seabrook is somehow pushed to #7 and then you just punt Koekkoek and Dahlstrom. Or maybe Murphy gets dealt and he replaces him.
- Budi1782


I'm in this boat.

The Hawks are showing confidence in Mitchell with a move like this.

Also, wouldn't it make sense that the Hawks signed 2x veteran defence LHD in de Haan and Maatta (to go along with Keith) to be able to insert both Boqvist and/or Mitchell on the right-side when they are ready?



HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jul 10 @ 9:55 PM ET
I know I’m the smaller percentage here, but I like the trade.

To me, neither guy has really proven their worth at the NHL level yet. They could become something or they might not.

Joki has some great looks, but he also seems like he struggles a bit with his confidence - which makes sense for a young player (especially a defenseman). It also seemed like he fell out of favor with Hawks brass, though I’m not sure why. Agreed that it’s weird to move a guy when you kind of have a thin blue line to begin with.

I know the knocks on Nylander are many, but let’s see what he’s got.

Maybe the trade gives both guys a fresh start/perspective.

Time to finish up Stranger Things...

- Matt Ross




Stranger Things was great btw.
dpard
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: It's all about the core (Pilates is the answer)
Joined: 04.18.2011

Jul 10 @ 9:58 PM ET
Hard to believe hank jokesonyou is the hill so many are willing to die on.
Playing with Keith does not make you a top 4 dman, just means you're lucky enough to play with Keith when the rest of the D sucks.
Bless your hearts
Elbows15
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I was going to do the math on this but I don't think it will help., IL
Joined: 08.04.2013

Jul 10 @ 9:58 PM ET
If anything, it would be the exact opposite. This is the Hawks giving him the green light that they want him in the lineup late this year and certainly next year by clearing room for him. If Gus moves on or is traded, Boqvist is the replacement. And then you can envision room for Mitchell if Seabrook is somehow pushed to #7 and then you just punt Koekkoek and Dahlstrom. Or maybe Murphy gets dealt and he replaces him.
- Budi1782

Not really. Still no room for him. The term on the contracts picked up is 3 years. They aren't going with rookies on defense in the nest three seasons. He may as well choose where he wants to play. Bowman has kept very few past their ELC in recent years.

It sure seems like there has been a course change this off-season.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: The Dach Side
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 10 @ 10:01 PM ET
I see OTT and CBJ as fits if both are moved together.

However if AA and Perlini are packaged, I would want to see a C coming back - preferably on a short-term deal.

Pageau in OTT and Riley Nash in CBJ would make sense.

I'm not advocating (although Pageau would be a solid 3C) but just stating what could make sense.

- Tyler Cameron



They both seem like prime destinations for Anisimov and Perlini (if they are dealt).
boilermaker100
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2015

Jul 10 @ 10:12 PM ET
I'm in this boat.

The Hawks are showing confidence in Mitchell with a move like this.

Also, wouldn't it make sense that the Hawks signed 2x veteran defence LHD in de Haan and Maatta (to go along with Keith) to be able to insert both Boqvist and/or Mitchell on the right-side when they are ready?

- Tyler Cameron


Also, one of Murphy, DeHaan or Maatta might he gone in the expansion draft 2 years from now.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:17 PM ET
To be honest, Joki was going to be expendable anyways and probably only would have gotten regular playing time this year if and when Gus is/was moved by the deadline or offseason in a Scott Darling-like scenario. Thus giving him half-a-year of consistent playing time with Boqvist nipping at the heels. Moving forward, you can't trade Murphy or Seabs. Murphy because he is the best defensive RHD on the team and maybe the whole organization (yes, RHD), and Seabrook won't be traded because well...(looks at contract)....you know. Come 2020 you're going to have Boqvist - Murphy - Seabrook manning the RHD spots and that probably won't change barring something crazy. But then again, Stan is known for doing some crazy stuff.

Nylander works because for some reason, 1st round forwards who never panned out, more times than not, flourish here. Plus if you look at the organizational depth, we are loaded at Center (Dach, Barratt, Wise, Entwistle, Saarela, etc.) but look weak at Winger depth outside of maybe Wedin, Kubalik, Teply, and Kursahev (even though he's listed at Center). Nylander can be moved anywhere from 1LW to either 2RW or 3RW depending on if Perlini is traded. It's a head-scratcher but it's understandable from Stan's point of view. Even though I feel like we could have acquired a better forward prospect for Joki.


Shaw - Toews - Kane
DeBrincat - Strome - Nylander
Kubalik - Kampf - Saad
Caggiula - Carpenter - Wedin/Q/Sikura

Keith - Gus
Maatta - Murphy
Dahlstrom/Koekkoek - Seabs


This lineup is made in anticipation of AA and Perlini being moved for draft picks.

- chitownfan92

I want to offer up a different perspective on the forward pipeline arguing that the Blackhawks have more winger depth than center depth.

The caveat is that while some of the prospects may be able to play center in juniors, college, Europe, or the minors, some if not most will likely be wingers if they ever make it to the NHL. So the following is where each would likely project to play at the NHL level.

ROCKFORD
Centers: Hakkarainen, Johnson, Nilsson, Quenneville
Wingers: Entwistle, Hagel, Highmore, Kurashev, Saarela (Aleksi), Soderlund, Wedin

EUROPE
Centers: none
Wingers: Nordgren, Saarela (Antti)

KHL
Centers: none
Wingers: Altybarmakyan, Kayumov, Shalunov

NCAA
Centers: Wise
Wingers: Barratt, Foo, Slavin

JUNIORS
Centers: Dach (if he doesn't make the Hawks)
Wingers: Teply

Dach is the only top 6 center in the pipeline. Wise is middle 6 while the rest are 4Cs with Quenneville possibly topping out as a 3C.
KMFDMLight
Joined: 06.22.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:18 PM ET
I see OTT and CBJ as fits if both are moved together.

However if AA and Perlini are packaged, I would want to see a C coming back - preferably on a short-term deal.

Pageau in OTT and Riley Nash in CBJ would make sense.

I'm not advocating (although Pageau would be a solid 3C) but just stating what could make sense.

- Tyler Cameron


Ken Holland was quoted on Sportsnet I think about needing a 3C and someone who could possibly be good for 20 goals. Cap space would be an issue for them I think.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:20 PM ET
I'm in this boat.

The Hawks are showing confidence in Mitchell with a move like this.

Also, wouldn't it make sense that the Hawks signed 2x veteran defence LHD in de Haan and Maatta (to go along with Keith) to be able to insert both Boqvist and/or Mitchell on the right-side when they are ready?

- Tyler Cameron

I believe both you and Budi are on to something with the theory on Mitchell's trajectory and factoring in this summer's trades for experienced LHDs in Maatta and de Haan. Mitchell is more likely than not to be in the mix for a RHD spot for 2020-21.
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Jul 10 @ 10:21 PM ET
I am excited to see what Nylander can bring in terms of skill but awfully worried about all of the other stuff.

Thought Joki had enough confidence... heard he was even cocky at times. We'll see how he works out in Buffalo.

Don't say anything about Stranger Things... not finished yet. Ha.

- Tyler Cameron

One best shows as Netflix original i binge watch season 3 in 2 days its that good. Black summer is also good. I like the trade to be honest i always saw joki as a 4 behind the others, time will only tell what happen but like the direction of the team and plan.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:26 PM ET
Interested to see how Slavin performs in prospect camp. I remember last year Q singeled him out as being very impressed with him.
- LAHawk

Slavin is a big body who can bum slay as a potential bottom 6 winger and possibly penalty killer. Probably not the most offensively skilled forward prospect but he is strong, works hard in the corners and boards, and has a great work ethic. Like Entwistle, he's a coach's dream in that he'll do all the little things to help the team compete and win.
pdx2ord
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.02.2015

Jul 10 @ 10:35 PM ET
"There were some interesting tidbits that came out of the Madhouse Chicago Hockey Podcast by Jay Zawaski of 670 The Score; he states that one of his sources had the Hawks shopping Jokiharju for a while because – while he's a steady defender, he doesn't excel in any specific area."

This is just such an odd rationale for me, since I feel like that could describe Seabs for most of his (pre-decline) career. Didn't excel in any one area, but overall a steady, damn good D-man. What's wrong with someone who has all around skill v. being lights out in one area?

I'm sure LBR will come and correct me on Seabs actually excelling in 1-2 things, but just how I've viewed him as a layperson.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:36 PM ET
It's a good thing that Nylander will be participating in prospects camp. Given that he never attended any prospects camp for the Sabres (at least according to the Sabres fans who have posted recently to share their insights), that would be a bad start for Nylander to continue that trend in Chicago.

Putting that aside, having Nylander in camp will give the coaching staff and player development personnel a first-hand look at what the Hawks have in him, give him immediate advice on what he needs to work on, and hit the ground running with a development regimen for him.

Hopefully this includes mentoring as well as a strong emphasis on work ethic, compete level, and reframed mindset from O zone player only to 3-zone player. At least give a poop when the puck isn't on his blade.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:38 PM ET
Everyone was happy with the moves Stan had made shoring up the defense. Ecstatic when Lehner became available and was signed. Then he trades the no.7-9 defense man on the team and he's a bum. Yes many moves are being done with next year in mind.

In the immortal words of Doug Buffone "STOP YOURSELF!"
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:40 PM ET
Hard to believe hank jokesonyou is the hill so many are willing to die on.
Playing with Keith does not make you a top 4 dman, just means you're lucky enough to play with Keith when the rest of the D sucks.
Bless your hearts

- dpard


Ditto.
BGKarras
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Itasca, IL
Joined: 06.19.2012

Jul 10 @ 10:44 PM ET
Everyone was happy with the moves Stan had made shoring up the defense. Ecstatic when Lehner became available and was signed. Then he trades the no.7-9 defense man on the team and he's a bum. Yes many moves are being done with next year in mind.

In the immortal words of Doug Buffone "STOP YOURSELF!"

- rpeters01

Possibly time will tell regarding this trade. On the flip side Stan may actually know what he's doing
And hits the jackpot.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:45 PM ET
Not really. Still no room for him. The term on the contracts picked up is 3 years. They aren't going with rookies on defense in the nest three seasons. He may as well choose where he wants to play. Bowman has kept very few past their ELC in recent years.

It sure seems like there has been a course change this off-season.

- Elbows15

Not counting Tevo and Danault, who on ELC was any good or better than what the Hawks got back?
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Reluctant bridge jumper; 6th round OHL draft pick, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:46 PM ET
Wanted to say one last time, good luck to Nylander

It's been great talking to some of you knowledgeable Hawks fans for some fun and respectful commentary in the sabres thread

And if you guys still want to do Pekar and a pick for Anisimov for a pick, I'm in

Cheers, guys
jcragcrumple
Buffalo Sabres
Location: Reluctant bridge jumper; 6th round OHL draft pick, YT
Joined: 04.04.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:49 PM ET
It's a good thing that Nylander will be participating in prospects camp. Given that he never attended any prospects camp for the Sabres (at least according to the Sabres fans who have posted recently to share their insights), that would be a bad start for Nylander to continue that trend in Chicago.

Putting that aside, having Nylander in camp will give the coaching staff and player development personnel a first-hand look at what the Hawks have in him, give him immediate advice on what he needs to work on, and hit the ground running with a development regimen for him.

Hopefully this includes mentoring as well as a strong emphasis on work ethic, compete level, and reframed mindset from O zone player only to 3-zone player. At least give a poop when the puck isn't on his blade.

- AEL_Fox


Nylander attended 3 Sabres development camps (his draft year, D+1, and D+2). He was hurt but present for 1. This year, we all thought something was up when the Sabres said "he's played 3 pro seasons, so he doesn't qualify."

It felt like Bailey and Baptiste were at 5 or 6 development camps
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 10 @ 10:57 PM ET
Nylander attended 3 Sabres development camps (his draft year, D+1, and D+2). He was hurt but present for 1. This year, we all thought something was up when the Sabres said "he's played 3 pro seasons, so he doesn't qualify."

It felt like Bailey and Baptiste were at 5 or 6 development camps

- jcragcrumple

Thanks for the correction. Appreciate all of the Sabres fans posting lately!
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