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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: What I really think of the Jokiharju / Nylander trade
Author Message
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 8:43 AM ET
This may be true, however, I think Nylander can flourish with the Hawks. This trade wasn't "bad" for the Hawks.
- sabreadvocate1


I'm not really here to say it's good or bad. I just want to enlighten our friends here about what Nylander does and doesn't do.
hockey nut 28
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Kansas City
Joined: 11.01.2006

Jul 11 @ 8:43 AM ET

Gosh I must be getting old. You have a kid with immense talent, who doesn't make the show, and instead of going back and working his butt off with a chip on his shoulder he pouts?

Now he gets traded to a new team and he reads he is slated to be lined up with 88?

Wow...if he doesn't come out guns blazing...

If that's the correct story. SMH
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jul 11 @ 8:43 AM ET
There is one other participant in this - agent Lewis Gross. Remember him from the negotiations with Brandon Saad (and his father)?
- RickJ

I didn't realize Gross was the agent? He seems to be the agent of choice for the helicopter fathers.
boilermaker100
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2015

Jul 11 @ 8:44 AM ET
I think another factor is Michael Nylander, Alex's father. He seems to be getting very involved with Willie Nylander's affairs in Toronto. My first question is why as a 19 year old did anyone who was looking out for Alex think a 19 playing in the AHL was a good idea? If he was that far away from being NHL ready he should have been playing in a junior league with kids his own age, physical development and mentality. Maybe Daddy felt getting a salary was more important than his development and possibly safety? The Sabres haven't shown they are a well run organization by any means but Michael Nylander doesn't seem to be doing his sons any favours except in the pursuit of riches.
- paulr


Well it worked for son William. And if Alexander "finds" it and flourishes for the Hawks the next two seasons as a top 6 forward, when his ELC expires in two years and if he is looking for the big payout, remember Saad's $6M is coming off the books at that time.
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 8:44 AM ET
Done! Just messaged him. Thanks!
- Tyler Cameron


Cool, look forward to reading the blog.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jul 11 @ 8:49 AM ET
I was not necessarily speaking of just this trade. Lol. His general approach to me of being a GM is doing what's only necessary to keep the seats filled and ticket season ticket sales steady riding the coat tails of 3 Cups. I also believe he is being directed to do this by the Master Marketer McD.
- rtang415


Tyler Cameron
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 10.31.2017

Jul 11 @ 8:54 AM ET
That’s what I thought too about Kurashev playing center but mostly wing. In the Hawks system and generally at the pro level, I believe he’ll be a winger. Middle 6, offensively gifted while also defensively sound.
- AEL_Fox


Kurashev looks like a centre to me. Plays the position really well.

Hope the Hawks keep him there through his development.
Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Jul 11 @ 8:54 AM ET
Tyler another great blog you posted. Your insight and feelings are mutually shared amongst most of us hawks fans.

As we all share a point of view , or a strong opinion as to how we feel Stan should proceed or have handled business.

From a purely honest and objective point of view, Chicago's front office has had the case of tunnel vision after winning their 2nd cup.

As hawks fans everyone is truly grateful for the 3 Stanley cup wins.
However Stan is paid to produce winning results, and IMO their didn't seem to be a grown up in the room in a lot of these decisions made either trades, new contracts, personnel decisions or coaching .

Chicago's handling of this team over the past 3 years has been awful.


The firing of kitchen without any input from coach Q, or trading off panarin and hammer , knee jerk decisions.

Then instead of firing coach Q last summer they went out and did the bare minimum to field a team that even on paper wasn't going anywhere.

Trading joker after all the positive happy talk just from a fans perspective leaves a bad taste in people's minds that their is no clear direction as to what this team is trying to accomplish both short and long term.

If Nylander happens to workout then Stan will look like a genius, however history is against Stan with plenty of questionable decisions.

I've ranted on this board plenty about Rockford lack of any skilled forward depth, more so offensive minded.

Hopefully this training camp these new acquisitions will bring lots of c9mpetition and make the fo and coaching staff have to make tough choices
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jul 11 @ 8:55 AM ET
I was not necessarily speaking of just this trade. Lol. His general approach to me of being a GM is doing what's only necessary to keep the seats filled and ticket season ticket sales steady riding the coat tails of 3 Cups. I also believe he is being directed to do this by the Master Marketer McD.
- rtang415

If Bowman was fired tomorrow and the new guy was asked what he thought he was left to work with what do you think his answer would be?

I'm not Bowman's biggest fan, but I think he is doing a terrific job overhauling this team and planning for the future. There is now real depth of young kids in the forward ranks. Many wont make it but they will be given a chance to develop in Rockford. Some will be used as trade chips. Goaltending depth has been addressed. There are a bunch of defenceman on the horizon.

Every team has some bad contracts to deal with, Bowman has some responsibility for those. But I think a new GM would be excited for what he has to work with. This team doesnt have to tank in order to rebuild.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Jul 11 @ 8:56 AM ET
I will disagree with you in this respect: Botterill has made a concerted effort to improve Rochester through his first two full years. Both years they went to the playoffs, and Nylander underwhelmed in the regular and post season.

The first year, absolutely. He was the youngest player in the A. The Sabres screwed that up, although there seems to be some confusion over whether that was Murray's call, or his/his dad's call

- jcragcrumple


Thete are a few questions we all would like to hear Bowman answer. I do not know if he can feel comfortable being completely honest. I do not believe Bowman wouldcl try to mislead us. I just don't know whether he would dive too deeply into the "why's" since it only serves to put an even hotest spotlight on both him and both traded players.

First we had hints of one of the heralded top four dman prospects would be moved. Just didn't see it would be Jokiharju - that much was nearly a complete surprise more due to his strong showing in Rockford and that he made/played in the World Championship.

Obviously Jokiharju was thoroughly scouted before choosen by Chicago. So why was his reaction to beung run at the NHL level so upsetting? Sure hecwiil gtiw in to a man's body and get stronger but will he akways have issue with teams trying to get into his pysch by pounding him? Botteril and Bowman disagree?

Next we might be tempted to guess thst Bowman foresees Boqvist and Mitchell as his top two right defense. So then Bowman was very snxious to move Jokiharju now thannwait until his value decreased? Reports say that Bowman really likes Nylander's skill level. Right now i am having difficulty detetmining if in fact Nylander is a better fit on Kane's line than some other prospect to come along at a later date.

If it is totally skill player as a Kane linematte i don"t know if Chicsgo has the dynamic player - maybe the BC (orvis it BU) kid onecday gets an opportunity if you do not want.to try and put a more physical player instead.

With this trade the immediate reaction you and i likely had was, well .....is Nylander going to be a skittish or averse to tough checking. Like Schmaltz was. Although the later did manage to pick.up points in Arizona.

Apparently we just have to wait andcsee how this trade plays out. We do now have a pure skill forward wheras previously we were lackingbthis exact.type prospect.

I concur TommyHawk: cannot wait for camp to open. In fact cannot wait for Traverse City - do they go there again because they have the over sea games too also early on.

BTW wondering if any other dmen prospects have an area in their game which will eventually lead to their being axed too. Keep in mind that LHD Beaudin may be very close to NHL. And what side defense does Gilbert play?

rtang415
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Palatine, IL
Joined: 02.07.2009

Jul 11 @ 8:56 AM ET
Tyler another great blog you posted. Your insight and feelings are mutually shared amongst most of us hawks fans.

As we all share a point of view , or a strong opinion as to how we feel Stan should proceed or have handled business.

From a purely honest and objective point of view, Chicago's front office has had the case of tunnel vision after winning their 2nd cup.

As hawks fans everyone is truly grateful for the 3 Stanley cup wins.
However Stan is paid to produce winning results, and IMO their didn't seem to be a grown up in the room in a lot of these decisions made either trades, new contracts, personnel decisions or coaching .

Chicago's handling of this team over the past 3 years has been awful.


The firing of kitchen without any input from coach Q, or trading off panarin and hammer , knee jerk decisions.

Then instead of firing coach Q last summer they went out and did the bare minimum to field a team that even on paper wasn't going anywhere.

Trading joker after all the positive happy talk just from a fans perspective leaves a bad taste in people's minds that their is no clear direction as to what this team is trying to accomplish both short and long term.

If Nylander happens to workout then Stan will look like a genius, however history is against Stan with plenty of questionable decisions.

I've ranted on this board plenty about Rockford lack of any skilled forward depth, more so offensive minded.

Hopefully this training camp these new acquisitions will bring lots of c9mpetition and make the fo and coaching staff have to make tough choices

- Taylorst1


This!!
TheSabresTaco
Buffalo Sabres
Location: I would pick Heiskanen and Provorov over Dahlin. But still not in my top 10. - MaximusAurelius, NY
Joined: 05.05.2011

Jul 11 @ 8:57 AM ET
Gosh I must be getting old. You have a kid with immense talent, who doesn't make the show, and instead of going back and working his butt off with a chip on his shoulder he pouts?

Now he gets traded to a new team and he reads he is slated to be lined up with 88?

Wow...if he doesn't come out guns blazing...

If that's the correct story. SMH

- hockey nut 28


Not saying for certain, but he's always seemed to have an entitlement issue since being drafted. His conference call personally helped me lean further in that direction. Like the Sabres don't know what they're doing with him and that he's better than the AHL.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Jul 11 @ 9:02 AM ET
Tyler another great blog you posted. Your insight and feelings are mutually shared amongst most of us hawks fans.

As we all share a point of view , or a strong opinion as to how we feel Stan should proceed or have handled business.

From a purely honest and objective point of view, Chicago's front office has had the case of tunnel vision after winning their 2nd cup.

As hawks fans everyone is truly grateful for the 3 Stanley cup wins.
However Stan is paid to produce winning results, and IMO their didn't seem to be a grown up in the room in a lot of these decisions made either trades, new contracts, personnel decisions or coaching .

Chicago's handling of this team over the past 3 years has been awful.


The firing of kitchen without any input from coach Q, or trading off panarin and hammer , knee jerk decisions.

Then instead of firing coach Q last summer they went out and did the bare minimum to field a team that even on paper wasn't going anywhere.

Trading joker after all the positive happy talk just from a fans perspective leaves a bad taste in people's minds that their is no clear direction as to what this team is trying to accomplish both short and long term.

If Nylander happens to workout then Stan will look like a genius, however history is against Stan with plenty of questionable decisions.

I've ranted on this board plenty about Rockford lack of any skilled forward depth, more so offensive minded.

Hopefully this training camp these new acquisitions will bring lots of c9mpetition and make the fo and coaching staff have to make tough choices

- Taylorst1

If Nylander looks great in development camp next week, Hawk fans wont even remember how to spell Joki's last name.
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jul 11 @ 9:04 AM ET
Tyler another great blog you posted. Your insight and feelings are mutually shared amongst most of us hawks fans.

As we all share a point of view , or a strong opinion as to how we feel Stan should proceed or have handled business.

From a purely honest and objective point of view, Chicago's front office has had the case of tunnel vision after winning their 2nd cup.

As hawks fans everyone is truly grateful for the 3 Stanley cup wins.
However Stan is paid to produce winning results, and IMO their didn't seem to be a grown up in the room in a lot of these decisions made either trades, new contracts, personnel decisions or coaching .

Chicago's handling of this team over the past 3 years has been awful.


The firing of kitchen without any input from coach Q, or trading off panarin and hammer , knee jerk decisions.

Then instead of firing coach Q last summer they went out and did the bare minimum to field a team that even on paper wasn't going anywhere.

Trading joker after all the positive happy talk just from a fans perspective leaves a bad taste in people's minds that their is no clear direction as to what this team is trying to accomplish both short and long term.

If Nylander happens to workout then Stan will look like a genius, however history is against Stan with plenty of questionable decisions.

I've ranted on this board plenty about Rockford lack of any skilled forward depth, more so offensive minded.

Hopefully this training camp these new acquisitions will bring lots of c9mpetition and make the fo and coaching staff have to make tough choices

- Taylorst1


I know you used the word "Hopefully", but after what you wrote above your final sentence, how could you think any of that might even be in the realm of possibility.

I mean the Hawks are a rudderless ship and the team is absolute dog poop right?


SaadBeast
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.28.2015

Jul 11 @ 9:04 AM ET
Say hawks put AA and Perlini as a trade package what team would be a fit and for what are the hawks looking for specifically? Or would it be a cash dump and Perlini is the sweetern in the deal? Imo Ottawa rangers islanders florida Carolina and Columbus are most likely teams for a possible trade to be had.
- Scott1977


They have no Cap space. Yes they are 8 mil under the cap, but they still have to sign Trouba, who is going to take most of that
HawkintheD
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Sick Bay, MI
Joined: 02.22.2012

Jul 11 @ 9:08 AM ET
If Bowman was fired tomorrow and the new guy was asked what he thought he was left to work with what do you think his answer would be?

I'm not Bowman's biggest fan, but I think he is doing a terrific job overhauling this team and planning for the future. There is now real depth of young kids in the forward ranks. Many wont make it but they will be given a chance to develop in Rockford. Some will be used as trade chips. Goaltending depth has been addressed. There are a bunch of defenceman on the horizon.

Every team has some bad contracts to deal with, Bowman has some responsibility for those. But I think a new GM would be excited for what he has to work with. This team doesnt have to tank in order to rebuild.

- RickJ


No, THIS!

Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Jul 11 @ 9:11 AM ET
I know you used the word "Hopefully", but after what you wrote above your final sentence, how could you think any of that might even be in the realm of possibility.

I mean the Hawks are a rudderless ship and the team is absolute dog poop right?

- HawkintheD


I think if we are being honest here , we all agree Stan has made some awful decisions, seabrooks contract, signing Bickell to a 4million dollar contract based on his playoff series only to turn around the following summer and have to give up t evo just to move Bickell,

Denault

All of these new acquisitions whom we haven't had the chance to watch and or play in the nhl either enough or at all it will be interesting to see how things may or may not work out.

Sure on paper they have improved from last year, but until they hit the ice and start playing we won't know how things will workout.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jul 11 @ 9:14 AM ET
If Nylander looks great in development camp next week, Hawk fans wont even remember how to spell Joki's last name.
- RickJ

Hey Rick you summed it up nicely. Most posters are a fickle bunch who can love and hate and love the team again in the course of a game. Many fans try to make judgements in real time and not over the course of a number of games. Last year at this time many posters were all in the "move out the bum Toews camp", now that idea is silent. A number of years ago it was "get rid of the bum who's ruining the brand, patrick kane" and now it's silent. We'll know next week if Nylander is a bum or a hero by how many points he does or doesn't get and I sure hope Dach gets a point or two or the "woe is me" crowd will be calling for Bowman's head.
rtang415
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Palatine, IL
Joined: 02.07.2009

Jul 11 @ 9:14 AM ET
No, THIS!


- HawkintheD


Is this Stan in disguise?
SoftServe
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 01.19.2016

Jul 11 @ 9:15 AM ET
To be honest, Joki was going to be expendable anyways and probably only would have gotten regular playing time this year if and when Gus is/was moved by the deadline or offseason in a Scott Darling-like scenario. Thus giving him half-a-year of consistent playing time with Boqvist nipping at the heels. Moving forward, you can't trade Murphy or Seabs. Murphy because he is the best defensive RHD on the team and maybe the whole organization (yes, RHD), and Seabrook won't be traded because well...(looks at contract)....you know. Come 2020 you're going to have Boqvist - Murphy - Seabrook manning the RHD spots and that probably won't change barring something crazy. But then again, Stan is known for doing some crazy stuff.

Nylander works because for some reason, 1st round forwards who never panned out, more times than not, flourish here. Plus if you look at the organizational depth, we are loaded at Center (Dach, Barratt, Wise, Entwistle, Saarela, etc.) but look weak at Winger depth outside of maybe Wedin, Kubalik, Teply, and Kursahev (even though he's listed at Center). Nylander can be moved anywhere from 1LW to either 2RW or 3RW depending on if Perlini is traded. It's a head-scratcher but it's understandable from Stan's point of view. Even though I feel like we could have acquired a better forward prospect for Joki.


Shaw - Toews - Kane
DeBrincat - Strome - Nylander
Kubalik - Kampf - Saad
Caggiula - Carpenter - Wedin/Q/Sikura

Keith - Gus
Maatta - Murphy
Dahlstrom/Koekkoek - Seabs


This lineup is made in anticipation of AA and Perlini being moved for draft picks.

- chitownfan92



If Kampf is slotted higher than the fourth-line center, that's a real issue.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Jul 11 @ 9:17 AM ET
If Bowman was fired tomorrow and the new guy was asked what he thought he was left to work with what do you think his answer would be?

I'm not Bowman's biggest fan, but I think he is doing a terrific job overhauling this team and planning for the future. There is now real depth of young kids in the forward ranks. Many wont make it but they will be given a chance to develop in Rockford. Some will be used as trade chips. Goaltending depth has been addressed. There are a bunch of defenceman on the horizon.

Every team has some bad contracts to deal with, Bowman has some responsibility for those. But I think a new GM would be excited for what he has to work with. This team doesnt have to tank in order to rebuild.

- RickJ



I like the post Rick. I know in the past there has been interference for SB to deal with, and we've all seen and heard him tap dancing in the media. I'd like to think that the humbling of the last couple of years has made those who felt they knew more than they did to take cover in the background because while they love taking credit they also don't want any heat. So they let SB take all the heat, which is the way it should be. And I agree with you that Stan is getting the job done a little at a time. Even if you are not an SB guy, and I wasn't at the start, props have to be given.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Jul 11 @ 9:18 AM ET
If Nylander looks great in development camp next week, Hawk fans wont even remember how to spell Joki's last name.
- RickJ



I'm not sure most fans can spell his name correctly now.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location:
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jul 11 @ 9:22 AM ET
I think if we are being honest here , we all agree Stan has made some awful decisions, seabrooks contract, signing Bickell to a 4million dollar contract based on his playoff series only to turn around the following summer and have to give up t evo just to move Bickell,

Denault

All of these new acquisitions whom we haven't had the chance to watch and or play in the nhl either enough or at all it will be interesting to see how things may or may not work out.

Sure on paper they have improved from last year, but until they hit the ice and start playing we won't know how things will workout.

- Taylorst1


Seabrook's contract was awful, Agreed!

Bickell had this small health problem called MS. Except to the very uniformed this was not on Bowman or even Bickell. The subsequent trading of Bickell for cap space and including TT was unfortunate but again it was another part of an unfortunate circumstance.

The Danault trade was done for the correct reason, bolstering the team for the playoffs. Where I blame Bowman was for not being on the same page as Q as to the retuen.

So over the course of ten seasons Bowman has balanced on the edge of the salary cap to win two additioncups after 2010, made one awful mistake in signing Seabrook and made a poor judgement move in trading away Danault, a serviceable forward who on this site has become a surefire Hall of Famer. The job he did wining those two cups far outweighs the Seabrook mistake. That's not to say he shouldn't be judged by management for this current reool/rebuild and so far he seems to be doing some nice work in that regard.
Ogilthorpe2
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 37,000 FT
Joined: 07.09.2009

Jul 11 @ 9:22 AM ET
I was not necessarily speaking of just this trade. Lol. His general approach to me of being a GM is doing what's only necessary to keep the seats filled and ticket season ticket sales steady riding the coat tails of 3 Cups. I also believe he is being directed to do this by the Master Marketer McD.
- rtang415

Winning Games?
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 11 @ 9:23 AM ET
Well it worked for son William. And if Alexander "finds" it and flourishes for the Hawks the next two seasons as a top 6 forward, when his ELC expires in two years and if he is looking for the big payout, remember Saad's $6M is coming off the books at that time.
- boilermaker100

Saad is not overpaid and will still be in his prime. The way salaries are going will probably be a 5x7 guy next contract.
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