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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: What I really think of the Jokiharju / Nylander trade
Author Message
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 11 @ 11:02 AM ET
Hjalmarsson was declining and his contract was coming up. It was the right move to trade him but just ended up with Murphy, unfortunately, who is as good as he'll ever be...which was a #6 on a bad AZ team
- PatShart


And some cap space, cost certainty. That has to be factored into any move you make nowadays.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 11 @ 11:03 AM ET
I understand your point . Setting aside Bickell MS which is sad in itself.

Chicago has always had cap issues , that was nothing new it wasn't like Stan wasn't aware of any future resignings or needed cap space,
Stan also knew Bickell was purely a big bodied 4th line player who was streaky, Tevo was a purely special player that was more valuable to Chicago's future than Bickell.

Stan never had the hoodspa to let players walk , if we don't sign Bickell, maybe someone else over pays him maybe his value isn't that high and stan signs him for less.


The same goes for Seabrook especially at his age when he was offered that contract, that's a huge blinking red flag.


That's why a lot of us question Stans decisions.

That's my entire point.

- Taylorst1

Bickell was far more than a 4th line player and won more board battles in one shift than Tevo in his entire career when healthy.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 11 @ 11:05 AM ET
To call Danault equal to Bergeron is a stretch.
- LAHawk

Don't think Boston would make that trade![/img]
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 11 @ 11:06 AM ET
Hjalmarsson was declining and his contract was coming up. It was the right move to trade him but just ended up with Murphy, unfortunately, who is as good as he'll ever be...which was a #6 on a bad AZ team
- PatShart



After returning from his injury last season Murphy was probably the Hawks most consistent defenseman. He averaged 19:30 per game after averaging 16:22 the season before. His previous ice-time high was 20:30 in 15-16. Murphy has shown signs of continuous improvement and he's only 26, there's no reason to believe he won't keep getting better. The only real problem with Murphy was that he was acquired at the cost of a warrior and fan favourite in Hjalmarsson.
hawk35
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: NF
Joined: 08.26.2009

Jul 11 @ 11:07 AM ET
I Think we have our team. With maybe just one more tweak....involving AA, Perlini or both. Murphy is here to stay now, with Joker gone.

So, it is on to RFA watching...Marner, Rantenan, Point.....gonna be interesting!!!
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jul 11 @ 11:09 AM ET
Hjalmarsson was declining and his contract was coming up. It was the right move to trade him but just ended up with Murphy, unfortunately, who is as good as he'll ever be...which was a #6 on a bad AZ team
- PatShart


Wasn't Entwhistle part of that deal?
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jul 11 @ 11:10 AM ET
After all the recent moves, it wouldn't surprise me at all if Mitchell decides to play out his college career and goes the UFA route.

Can't say I blame him. Once a player has reached the end of their ELC, off they go.

- Elbows15


I agree. Unless he’s got a spot in the lineup where he plays immediately.

I would put 2-7 together and then place your most defensive defenseman with gus out of murphy, maata, de Haan. Koekoek only sees the ice in a very rare occurrence. (Injury).

I’m hell bent on moving AA after this and wish they’d move murphy but they won’t. Why? Bowman seems to give extra lives to those he trades for. Brookbank, rundblad, and on it goes.

I don’t see why people are automatically penning in Nylander into rhe lineup. Kid hasn’t earned or shown he is nhl ready. He, sikura, kubalik, dach, quenneville all have to earn the spot.

I truly hope they ditch Perlini for a mid level pick. 4th or later. Problem is I don’t see anyone in the nhl looking to get in on Perlini after seeing the same warts we see.

And those who point to “well for x games he was one of the best players on the ice”. No kidding. Anyone at this level has the skill to dominate if they can get the mental part down.....something Perlini is god awful at.

Keep AA make a run this year and waive good bye to PATRICK poulin part deux
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 11 @ 11:10 AM ET
Wasn't Entwhistle part of that deal?
- powerenforcer


No, he was part of the Hossa trade.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 11 @ 11:11 AM ET
Stan's made good and bad decisions and I won't rehash all of them. Would I love to have Danault back? Sure, but I get why he was traded and also how and why it didn't work out.

Would love to have Teuvo back, but I'm one of the few here who seemed to like Bickell and didn't mind the contract at the time. I'll admit I wasn't in the know like some that he would eventually be diagnosed with MS, so that took me completely by surprise...kudos to you though.

Seabs' deal to me was the real stinker...not so much for the money but when coupled with the term was no gouda for sure.

On your other points...

On paper they've improved? Ok, agree.

We won't know until they play how things will workout? Yep, no argument there.

So until then you'll crap all over them before a single minute of hockey's been played even though you acknowledge they seem to be fielding a better team than last year?

So if we're being honest, do you see where a reasonable person might be in disagreement with that last part?

- HawkintheD

Tevo's ELC was also coming up his stats very similar to Perlini's, hmmm?
PatShart
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Vegas, NV
Joined: 06.25.2015

Jul 11 @ 11:12 AM ET
After returning from his injury last season Murphy was probably the Hawks most consistent defenseman. He averaged 19:30 per game after averaging 16:22 the season before. His previous ice-time high was 20:30 in 15-16. Murphy has shown signs of continuous improvement and he's only 26, there's no reason to believe he won't keep getting better. The only real problem with Murphy was that he was acquired at the cost of a warrior and fan favourite in Hjalmarsson.
- DarthKane


Ice time, IMO does not equate to consistency

He and Dahlstrom were assigned to be "shut down pair" by JC...and, well, not sure which one of those two heads were further up their own azzess but if others saw "improvement" in him, so be it. I think he is so unaware of play around him and hes always the one on the ice when stretch passes occur behind him but he tries hard, which I understand it's all about the trying and image

I'm sure JC will keep shoving him out there and Seabrook will remain the whipping boy
powerenforcer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheeling, IL
Joined: 09.24.2009

Jul 11 @ 11:12 AM ET
No, he was part of the Hossa trade.
- LAHawk



OK thanks. Too many trades w/ Ari.
Savetheembers33
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 01.23.2017

Jul 11 @ 11:12 AM ET
At first I was not happy with this trade at all but given some time to let it sink it I think that Joki was pumped up a bit by all of us with how poorly the Hawks defense looked and then the performance by him at the World Juniors. I still think he's got the talent to be a solid Top 4 Defensemen that can contribute on both ends of the ice. I'm hopeful and excited to see what Nylander can do in the prospect camp and training camp with some skilled players and see if they can begin to tap into that potential that made him the 8th overall pick

Kubalik-Toews-Kane
Cat-Strome-Nylander
Saad-AA-Shaw
Caggiula-Kampf-Carpenter
Sikura/Quenneville/Highmore/Nilsson

Keith-Gus
Matta-Murphy
de Haan-Seabrook
Koekkoek or Dahlstrom

Crawford
Lehner

Seems on paper to be better than last year, but still need a few guys to step up if they wanna legit contend in the West again
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 11 @ 11:12 AM ET
I Think we have our team. With maybe just one more tweak....involving AA, Perlini or both. Murphy is here to stay now, with Joker gone.

So, it is on to RFA watching...Marner, Rantenan, Point.....gonna be interesting!!!

- hawk35



If the choice comes down to move one of Murphy, Anisimov or Perlini there really is no choice. Murphy and Anisimov stay.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

Jul 11 @ 11:13 AM ET
Quite using the MS as the basis for your argument. That has no factor whatsoever in Stans foolish decsion to overpay a 4th line guy whom never once put together a full productive season as a offensive power forward.

He had a great playoff series and was overpaid , his production dropped off the next season or should I stay reality of the type of player he always was settled in.


Nobody knew of his ms for at least another year in a half.

- Taylorst1


No Bickell in 2013, no Cup, period
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jul 11 @ 11:14 AM ET
Not really. Still no room for him. The term on the contracts picked up is 3 years. They aren't going with rookies on defense in the nest three seasons. He may as well choose where he wants to play. Bowman has kept very few past their ELC in recent years.

It sure seems like there has been a course change this off-season.

- Elbows15


It’s beyond that.

Crawford Lehner debrincat strome and then what the hell does Saad want?

IMO big year for #20. I would not be surprised that the recent acquisition of sakerra (Carolina) and Nylander and dach are all setting up to move on from guys who are going to look the break bank. Saad included if history repeats itself.

breadbag
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 11.30.2015

Jul 11 @ 11:16 AM ET
Assuming that would be the Hawks opening night roster, it's a significant improvement over last season:

Anisimov
Debrincat
Hayden
Johnson
Kahun
Kampf
Kane
Kruger
Kunitz
Martinsen
Saad
Schmaltz
Toews

Davidson
Gustafsson
Jokiharju
Keith
Manning
Rutta
Seabrook

Ward
Forsberg

IR - Crawford, Murphy, Forsling

- DarthKane


Yes specifically Kunitz, Hayden, Johnson, Martinsen, Manning, Kruger. Those guys to me all below expectations last year.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

Jul 11 @ 11:17 AM ET
At first I was not happy with this trade at all but given some time to let it sink it I think that Joki was pumped up a bit by all of us with how poorly the Hawks defense looked and then the performance by him at the World Juniors. I still think he's got the talent to be a solid Top 4 Defensemen that can contribute on both ends of the ice. I'm hopeful and excited to see what Nylander can do in the prospect camp and training camp with some skilled players and see if they can begin to tap into that potential that made him the 8th overall pick

Kubalik-Toews-Kane
Cat-Strome-Nylander
Saad-AA-Shaw
Caggiula-Kampf-Carpenter
Sikura/Quenneville/Highmore/Nilsson

Keith-Gus
Matta-Murphy
de Haan-Seabrook
Koekkoek or Dahlstrom

Crawford
Lehner

Seems on paper to be better than last year, but still need a few guys to step up if they wanna legit contend in the West again

- Savetheembers33


I still don't like the trade, but Strome really really really struggled in Arizona and came alive once he came here. Who knows but i do know it can be very frustrating as a player or employee who gets passed over on being promoted. It sure seemed like Joki was pissed playing his off side for JC, and seeing Gus playing instead of himself.
resqmed99
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2007

Jul 11 @ 11:18 AM ET
Wasn't that frustrating to those of us who think they face in sync with the NHL action the is being played live in front of them.
Specifically that Eric Daze - Michael Nylander - JP Dumont line...
they would on many nights especially when the Blackhawks team was ahead, seemed to thrive as a dominant scoring line and I am sure if the Athletic had been around along then, with the hungry fan base wanting so and to see the hawks become a top club again, all would be buzzing about their play.

- wiz1901


I just remember loving Nylander and Sullivan together, they would fly!
SteveRain
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Connor Murphy Sucks, IL
Joined: 05.07.2010

Jul 11 @ 11:20 AM ET
To call Danault equal to Bergeron is a stretch.
- LAHawk


Who said that? That’s rich......
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Jul 11 @ 11:29 AM ET
No Bickell in 2013, no Cup, period
- BetweenTheDots

Correct! And the poster you responded to about MS is clueless.
Q-stache
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 11.20.2015

Jul 11 @ 11:30 AM ET
No Bickell in 2013, no Cup, period
- BetweenTheDots

Guy was a bull in a china shop, and guys like that get paid. Regardless of how these contracts look now, it's the price of doing business.

Franzen
Byfuglien
Bickell
Hornqvist
Wilson
Gary0301
Joined: 07.15.2012

Jul 11 @ 11:32 AM ET
Question.......Why isn't Brandon Hagel talked about more as a possible Hawk forward this year? He is basically the same age as Nylander. He puts up points everywhere he goes. Maybe Tyler or Wiz can give some feedback on his chances? He seems every bit as productive as any other prospect we have available. For that matter, Entwhistle as well, he seems like a more experienced Dach, big body, hard worker. Are either of these two guys a possiblilty for the big boy team this year?
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 11 @ 11:32 AM ET
It’s beyond that.

Crawford Lehner debrincat strome and then what the hell does Saad want?

IMO big year for #20. I would not be surprised that the recent acquisition of sakerra (Carolina) and Nylander and dach are all setting up to move on from guys who are going to look the break bank. Saad included if history repeats itself.

- SteveRain



I doubt Saad goes anywhere, Stan re-acquired him in large part for these next two seasons. Plus, Saad has MNTC (10 team trade list) in the last year of his deal.

If Crawford and Lehner are both back next season I would expect it to be for less than $11 million combined. #50 would be transitioning to a back-up role. Anisimov should be easy to move next summer if needed and one of Murphy, Maatta or de Haan could be moved as well if one of the D prospects are ready to go.
TommyHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.23.2013

Jul 11 @ 11:35 AM ET
After returning from his injury last season Murphy was probably the Hawks most consistent defenseman. He averaged 19:30 per game after averaging 16:22 the season before. His previous ice-time high was 20:30 in 15-16. Murphy has shown signs of continuous improvement and he's only 26, there's no reason to believe he won't keep getting better. The only real problem with Murphy was that he was acquired at the cost of a warrior and fan favourite in Hjalmarsson.
- DarthKane

Excuse me, but your Murphy praise isn’t welcomed here. He’s a bust and a horrible acquisition by Stan. He needs to be shipped out at all costs and should have been the one sent packing rather than Joker.

But seriously, it truly BAFFLES me how disrespected Murphy is amongst Hawks fans (especially here). He was - easily - our mostly consistent defensive d-man last season, and is without a doubt our best option on the right side as things stand right now. But hey, because he’s not as sound defensively as Hammer was we lost that trade and need to move him to recoup cap space. Not sure what Colliton is thinking in using him more than Q did. After all, Q is the HOF coach *rolls eyes*.
TommyHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.23.2013

Jul 11 @ 11:36 AM ET
Wasn't Entwhistle part of that deal?
- powerenforcer

Ent was part of the Hossa/Hino deal.
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