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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits: Arbitration, DBL, Caravan, Barber and More
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FlyerFan16
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: CT
Joined: 09.21.2014

Jul 11 @ 8:50 PM ET
It's "you're" as in "you are." Example: You're a moron.

"Your" means belonging to you. Example: Your posts add nothing of value.

- bmeltzer

StepfordSam
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 02.06.2017

Jul 11 @ 8:50 PM ET

The politics, interpersonal stuff and missing the PO's just provided the capital that he needed to make the change.

- Tomahawk



Exactly this.

Dave Scott is a cutthroat business man. He didn't become CFO and now Chairman/CEO by not having the characteristics it takes to make decisions like the one he executed with Hextall.

Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jul 11 @ 8:58 PM ET
I agree with Hextall on that. If the Alumni had an issue with then that's on them. I think it's sad if that is part of the reason why they fired him.
- MJL


It's a small part of losing touch with the "treating your people right " things Ed Snider understood were why players wanted to come here, hated to leave and why "Flyers Alumni" means something other than "ex-Flyer."

Hexy himself regrets that particular decision. But just as his "I don't want pizza or buffalo wings in the locker room after a game -- healthy, anti-inflammatory foods only" snowballed into a misinterpretation that "any time players are present, the food choices have to be Hexy approved" (not his intent or actual policy but perceived that way), things snowballed in perception.

FlyerFan16
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: CT
Joined: 09.21.2014

Jul 11 @ 8:59 PM ET
It's a small part of losing touch with the "treating your people right " things Ed Snider understood were why players wanted to come here, hated to leave and why "Flyers Alumni" means something other than "ex-Flyer."

Hexy himself regrets that particular decision. But just as his "I don't want pizza or buffalo wings in the locker room after a game -- healthy, anti-inflammatory foods only" snowballed into a misinterpretation that "any time players are present, the food choices have to be Hexy approved" (not his intent or actual policy but perceived that way), things snowballed in perception.

- bmeltzer

Do you think if Ed Snider was alive, he would have told Hexy to make the locker room available to the Alumni in that situation?
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Jul 11 @ 9:12 PM ET
Exactly this.

Dave Scott is a cutthroat business man. He didn't become CFO and now Chairman/CEO by not having the characteristics it takes to make decisions like the one he executed with Hextall.

- StepfordSam


Your point? Of course, both Scott and Holmgren were able to make the hard decisions like firing Hextall. I really don’t understand the dislike and the basic perception folks seem to have of Scott. Mr. Snider knew him and picked him to oversee his beloved team. Give the guy a chance.
opeth_pa
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The Implication
Joined: 12.13.2011

Jul 11 @ 9:13 PM ET
So PH has been a coach in the NHL, a player, GM, president and you’ve been exactly what. Oh, that’s right, your a blogger. So cool. You should see if you can carry his bags for him.
- Angus4444



We all fight about lots of things here but I think one thing that will unify us is people jumping on Bill..

As someone else said, if you dont like his approach then don't ready his blog.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 11 @ 9:15 PM ET
It's a small part of losing touch with the "treating your people right " things Ed Snider understood were why players wanted to come here, hated to leave and why "Flyers Alumni" means something other than "ex-Flyer."

Hexy himself regrets that particular decision. But just as his "I don't want pizza or buffalo wings in the locker room after a game -- healthy, anti-inflammatory foods only" snowballed into a misinterpretation that "any time players are present, the food choices have to be Hexy approved" (not his intent or actual policy but perceived that way), things snowballed in perception.

- bmeltzer


Maybe he does but Hextall wasn't hired to be the Flyers PR guy, he was hired to correct the issues with the team to move the team in a different direction. I'm not interested in perception. I don't see keeping the team locker room for the team and having the Alumni dress elsewhere as not treating people right. Coddling to the alumni was not his job.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Jul 11 @ 9:28 PM ET
Maybe he does but Hextall wasn't hired to be the Flyers PR guy, he was hired to correct the issues with the team to move the team in a different direction. I'm not interested in perception. I don't see keeping the team locker room for the team and having the Alumni dress elsewhere as not treating people right. Coddling to the alumni was not his job.
- MJL


A lot of being really good at a job is doing and being aware of little things that are not technically in your job description. Go look back at Hextall’s final press conference. I think he even said it himself, he didn’t think about it at the time but knows he should have done it differently. As Bill said earlier, this was just one of the many small things that snowballed. And the team was losing and losing.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 11 @ 9:50 PM ET
A lot of being really good at a job is doing and being aware of little things that are not technically in your job description. Go look back at Hextall’s final press conference. I think he even said it himself, he didn’t think about it at the time but knows he should have done it differently. As Bill said earlier, this was just one of the many small things that snowballed. And the team was losing and losing.
- NC Flyers Fan


One of the worst things people do is compare regular every day working experiences to being a coach or a GM of a pro sports team. He was a hockey GM, not a HR manager. I think based on Hextall's comments, there maybe a few things in hindsight that he wished he did differently but overall he knows his vision and plan was the the right one and the right approach. Flyers management panicked.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

Jul 11 @ 9:51 PM ET
Maybe he does but Hextall wasn't hired to be the Flyers PR guy, he was hired to correct the issues with the team to move the team in a different direction. I'm not interested in perception. I don't see keeping the team locker room for the team and having the Alumni dress elsewhere as not treating people right. Coddling to the alumni was not his job.
- MJL


I don’t care about any of that crap. Going with neuvirth coming into last year is a downright fireable offense no matter what stage of rebuild they were in. It’s impossible to defend such a poor decision at a position that impacts the team so much
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Jul 11 @ 9:58 PM ET
It's "you're" as in "you are." Example: You're a moron.

"Your" means belonging to you. Example: Your posts add nothing of value.

- bmeltzer



Lol
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

Jul 11 @ 10:00 PM ET
I don’t care about any of that crap. Going with neuvirth coming into last year is a downright fireable offense no matter what stage of rebuild they were in. It’s impossible to defend such a poor decision at a position that impacts the team so much
- Just5



Bills point also suggested that the Flyers weren’t winning....his point wasn’t that they fired him for just being a tad closed off and unpopular within certain areas of the team, but that along with a losing record, led to Hexy’s demise....the whole “losing” part is lost on some.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Jul 11 @ 10:01 PM ET
A lot of being really good at a job is doing and being aware of little things that are not technically in your job description. Go look back at Hextall’s final press conference. I think he even said it himself, he didn’t think about it at the time but knows he should have done it differently. As Bill said earlier, this was just one of the many small things that snowballed. And the team was losing and losing.
- NC Flyers Fan


He did it great job, his plan was a good, there was good cause to let him go and he had some regrets
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Jul 11 @ 10:09 PM ET
One of the worst things people do is compare regular every day working experiences to being a coach or a GM of a pro sports team. He was a hockey GM, not a HR manager. I think based on Hextall's comments, there maybe a few things in hindsight that he wished he did differently but overall he knows his vision and plan was the the right one and the right approach. Flyers management panicked.
- MJL


You are entitled to your own opinion as am I.

I very much doubt that anything you say or I say will change either of those.

The toxic effect that those small things that snowballed and the losing caused...that had to be flushed out to move forward. It was the right call in my mind. Nothing to do with Hexy’s draft and development but all about the climate, culture and current situation. It’s been said a ton...if they were winning it might have turned out differently.

daryl stanley
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 02.12.2019

Jul 11 @ 10:32 PM ET
Bill did any of the players ever complain about hextall at all on any way do you know ?
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jul 11 @ 11:32 PM ET
One of the worst things people do is compare regular every day working experiences to being a coach or a GM of a pro sports team. He was a hockey GM, not a HR manager. I think based on Hextall's comments, there maybe a few things in hindsight that he wished he did differently but overall he knows his vision and plan was the the right one and the right approach. Flyers management panicked.
- MJL


People are people, MJL, and how they get treated -- or at least how they perceive they are being treated, because there are always three sides to every story and no set of opinions is ever unanimous -- absolutely matters. That is as true in hockey as it is anywhere else. Yes, winning cures most. Not all, but most.

On another note, I did personally not disagree with Hexy's plan and I know he believes in his heart of hearts that he neither micromanaged nor was unreasonable.

Sadly, 1) when your NHL-level team has been a bubble club (by deliberate choice in the name of the farm system rebuild and long-term cap) for your entire tenure, 2) your bosses are urging you to speed up the process and you do not know how to manage up -- know which battles you can win, which ones you have to give a bit, and which ones you'd be best off talking through with the team president to advocate on your behalf, and 3) there are others of influence chafing at your style and you've isolated yourself with a very small trusted group around you, your job is in severe jeopardy.

My regret is that there wasn't better communication: Hexy to others, others to Hexy, before things got toxic through the compounding effect of the whisper-down-the-lane effect. Unfortunately, when Hexy was fired, Sarge was collateral damage, too, because he was part of that very small circle on the hockey side.

Chuck Fletcher is a capable GM and Brent Flahr is a capable assistant GM. Brent actually reminds me a little bit of Chris so far, although I know Pryor better. But it was painful to watch how things unraveled. Hexy always treated me kindly and respectfully. Homer has always been a huge help to me, and been good to me. I genuinely like and respect both of them, along with Chris Pryor.

I took no joy -- just the opposite -- in writing the blog I did after Hexy was let go, about the reasons for it as I understood it. Subsequently, I've heard some of the counterweight to it, and it makes more sense to me. It truly was a breakdown of communication, and with that came a breakdown of trust.

Chuck isn't Hexy and he isn't Homer or Clarkie. He's his own man and has his own style. He's gentlemanly and business-like. He's more open than Hexy about certain things (like contract term and cap hit), less accessible about other things -- Chuck will go totally silent for lengthier stretches. He manages people more along the lines of his dad than along the Ed Snider/ Paul Holmgren way, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and he isn't a carbon copy of Cliff, either. I do know that he's agreeable to some things that Hexy opposed.

Long-term, I think the Flyers are in pretty safe hands under Fletcher. I don't think he's some fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants gunslinger eager to tear up the farm system to try only to win now nor is he afraid of a little bit of risk in the effort to move forward at the NHL level.

I cannot predict how things will come together next season but I know what his No. 1 goal is -- cut the team GAA substantially, be deeper through the middle and on D, and surround the youth with some vets who've been mainstays on winning teams -- and it's not a bad approach. I like what he did with the Vigneault hiring and in assembling an equally experienced staff under him.

How it all plays out, we'll see.


2Real
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: IT'S GRITTIN TIME, CA
Joined: 07.14.2007

Jul 12 @ 12:50 AM ET
So PH has been a coach in the NHL, a player, GM, president and you’ve been exactly what. Oh, that’s right, your a blogger. So cool. You should see if you can carry his bags for him.
- Angus4444

and you're just a pissed off keyboard warrior
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Jul 12 @ 6:18 AM ET
People are people, MJL, and how they get treated -- or at least how they perceive they are being treated, because there are always three sides to every story and no set of opinions is ever unanimous -- absolutely matters. That is as true in hockey as it is anywhere else. Yes, winning cures most. Not all, but most.

On another note, I did personally not disagree with Hexy's plan and I know he believes in his heart of hearts that he neither micromanaged nor was unreasonable.

Sadly, 1) when your NHL-level team has been a bubble club (by deliberate choice in the name of the farm system rebuild and long-term cap) for your entire tenure, 2) your bosses are urging you to speed up the process and you do not know how to manage up -- know which battles you can win, which ones you have to give a bit, and which ones you'd be best off talking through with the team president to advocate on your behalf, and 3) there are others of influence chafing at your style and you've isolated yourself with a very small trusted group around you, your job is in severe jeopardy.

My regret is that there wasn't better communication: Hexy to others, others to Hexy, before things got toxic through the compounding effect of the whisper-down-the-lane effect. Unfortunately, when Hexy was fired, Sarge was collateral damage, too, because he was part of that very small circle on the hockey side.

Chuck Fletcher is a capable GM and Brent Flahr is a capable assistant GM. Brent actually reminds me a little bit of Chris so far, although I know Pryor better. But it was painful to watch how things unraveled. Hexy always treated me kindly and respectfully. Homer has always been a huge help to me, and been good to me. I genuinely like and respect both of them, along with Chris Pryor.

I took no joy -- just the opposite -- in writing the blog I did after Hexy was let go, about the reasons for it as I understood it. Subsequently, I've heard some of the counterweight to it, and it makes more sense to me. It truly was a breakdown of communication, and with that came a breakdown of trust.

Chuck isn't Hexy and he isn't Homer or Clarkie. He's his own man and has his own style. He's gentlemanly and business-like. He's more open than Hexy about certain things (like contract term and cap hit), less accessible about other things -- Chuck will go totally silent for lengthier stretches. He manages people more along the lines of his dad than along the Ed Snider/ Paul Holmgren way, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and he isn't a carbon copy of Cliff, either. I do know that he's agreeable to some things that Hexy opposed.

Long-term, I think the Flyers are in pretty safe hands under Fletcher. I don't think he's some fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants gunslinger eager to tear up the farm system to try only to win now nor is he afraid of a little bit of risk in the effort to move forward at the NHL level.

I cannot predict how things will come together next season but I know what his No. 1 goal is -- cut the team GAA substantially, be deeper through the middle and on D, and surround the youth with some vets who've been mainstays on winning teams -- and it's not a bad approach. I like what he did with the Vigneault hiring and in assembling an equally experienced staff under him.

How it all plays out, we'll see.

- bmeltzer



Great feedback, nothing is ever absolute, you must be prepared to adjust. When winning/progressing you can always fall back on winning/progressing. When you are not, you have to fall back on the relationships you have, especially upstream


https://youtu.be/625JOcEqsz4
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Mantua, NJ
Joined: 03.09.2010

Jul 12 @ 6:34 AM ET
As evidence by what so far or is this just preparatory doom and gloom.
- opeth_pa


Basically, Holmgren was Tom from Office Space, taking the orders from the customers to the engineers.

Now, the engineers and customers are directly talking to each other. NOOOOOO!
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Jul 12 @ 7:25 AM ET
Some words about Homer I posted on twitter:

I’ve been a Flyers fan for the entirety of Paul Holmgren’s career as a player, coach, GM and team executive. I remember Fred Shero saying that he knew Homer belonged the first time he saw him play and he was right. He had all of the qualities of a 70’s era Flyer at 6-3, 210 lbs, while using all of that size to his advantage. Paul was a physical force who could score, peaking during the Flyers ‘80 Cup run with 30 goals and 65 points. He stayed as an active player with the team until 1984.

Beyond that, he took on all of the heavyweights during the peak NHL fighting era assuming the mantle of Dave Schultz to a great degree. That was no small task considering he had an eye injury his first season in the AHL, which nearly ended in tragedy due to complications. As a result he wore a face shield for a brief period, but it never deterred his physical play.

It’s unbelievable in these times to imagine someone starting as a player in 1976 and spending all but 6 or 7 of the last 43 years as part of the Flyers organization, but that’s what Holmgren accomplished.

Obviously the most lasting legacy of Paul Holmgren will be his tenure as GM, as he took over for Bob Clarke in 2006. He seemed to have a firm grasp of the concepts behind being an executive in the cap era and articulated them well when prompted. How he took the last place ‘07 squad and engineered a rebuild that culminated in the Flyers making it to the conference finals in ‘08, is probably his crowning achievement. A close second would be his hiring of Peter Laviolette during the 2010 season that ended up with a Cup final appearance.

I was a harsh critic of Paul during his latter years, as I felt he had lost his way and was too easily swayed by the always impatient Ed Snider, but there is no reason to rehash that today. What’s most important to remember is the entire record, which puts him in the pantheon of Flyers in the organization’s 52 year history.

- isaiah520

Well said.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Jul 12 @ 7:28 AM ET
I don’t care about any of that crap. Going with neuvirth coming into last year is a downright fireable offense no matter what stage of rebuild they were in. It’s impossible to defend such a poor decision at a position that impacts the team so much
- Just5

Agreed. It always puzzled the hell out of me that a former #1 goalie didn’t seem to have a grasp on how important good goaltending is to the success of a team.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 12 @ 7:54 AM ET
I don’t care about any of that crap. Going with neuvirth coming into last year is a downright fireable offense no matter what stage of rebuild they were in. It’s impossible to defend such a poor decision at a position that impacts the team so much
- Just5


I agree that relying on Neuvirth was a mistake. However, one player decision does not make a fireable offense.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 12 @ 8:07 AM ET
People are people, MJL, and how they get treated -- or at least how they perceive they are being treated, because there are always three sides to every story and no set of opinions is ever unanimous -- absolutely matters. That is as true in hockey as it is anywhere else. Yes, winning cures most. Not all, but most.


- bmeltzer


In the big picture, that one incident shouldn't matter that much. If the Alumni felt slighted, they should get over it. I see it as completely ridiculous if that actually factored into the decision to remove Hextall. I agree with another poster who basically said issues like that are just part of the excuse to make the change.



On another note, I did personally not disagree with Hexy's plan and I know he believes in his heart of hearts that he neither micromanaged nor was unreasonable.

Sadly, 1) when your NHL-level team has been a bubble club (by deliberate choice in the name of the farm system rebuild and long-term cap) for your entire tenure, 2) your bosses are urging you to speed up the process and you do not know how to manage up -- know which battles you can win, which ones you have to give a bit, and which ones you'd be best off talking through with the team president to advocate on your behalf, and 3) there are others of influence chafing at your style and you've isolated yourself with a very small trusted group around you, your job is in severe jeopardy.


- bmeltzer


Holmgren wasn't smart enough to know that it took 2-3 years to undo the position that Holmgren had the team in? To put the team in a better cap position and build up the prospect base? Developing through the draft takes time. Holmgren either wasn't smart enough, let his ego get involved, or let the bean counters get too involved. Hextall was brought in to change the way the team operated. It seems to me there was too much influence from the Holmgren way, trying to influence how Hextall developed the team. If anyone wants to say it was about business, I understand that. Hockey wise, they made a bad choice. Here we are, a cap team again, buying players out, giving up draft picks to help now, etc.



Chuck isn't Hexy and he isn't Homer or Clarkie. He's his own man and has his own style. He's gentlemanly and business-like. He's more open than Hexy about certain things (like contract term and cap hit), less accessible about other things -- Chuck will go totally silent for lengthier stretches. He manages people more along the lines of his dad than along the Ed Snider/ Paul Holmgren way, but that's not necessarily a bad thing and he isn't a carbon copy of Cliff, either. I do know that he's agreeable to some things that Hexy opposed.

Long-term, I think the Flyers are in pretty safe hands under Fletcher. I don't think he's some fly-by-the-seat-of-the-pants gunslinger eager to tear up the farm system to try only to win now nor is he afraid of a little bit of risk in the effort to move forward at the NHL level.

I cannot predict how things will come together next season but I know what his No. 1 goal is -- cut the team GAA substantially, be deeper through the middle and on D, and surround the youth with some vets who've been mainstays on winning teams -- and it's not a bad approach. I like what he did with the Vigneault hiring and in assembling an equally experienced staff under him.

How it all plays out, we'll see.

- bmeltzer


I'm open to giving Fletcher a chance. I don't think to this point he has been too far towards trying to win it all and he has made the team better. At least on paper. Fletcher is not exactly a proven winning GM. However, as a team that isn't a true contender, they should not be up against the Cap. Moves like the Schlemko buyout are disturbing to me. We'll see. I think Hextall had the same goals, just a different way of accomplishing them. They would've been better off remaining patient and staying significantly under the cap in my opinion.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jul 12 @ 8:10 AM ET
Agreed. It always puzzled the hell out of me that a former #1 goalie didn’t seem to have a grasp on how important good goaltending is to the success of a team.
- BiggE



Do you honestly believe that Hextall was not aware of how important good goaltending was to a team? I know that you know better than that. Here is how I see it. In a lot of cases, at this point in time, Hextall would rather gamble and take a risk on a situation rather than hurt the future. I emphasize at that time. It was all about timing and steps. Hextall didn't feel the time was right to make big moves and take more risks. I believe in time, he would've gotten the team to that phase and taken the shots. He knew the team wasn't ready. The injury to Elliott just killed them.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Jul 12 @ 8:58 AM ET
Do you honestly believe that Hextall was not aware of how important good goaltending was to a team? I know that you know better than that. Here is how I see it. In a lot of cases, at this point in time, Hextall would rather gamble and take a risk on a situation rather than hurt the future. I emphasize at that time. It was all about timing and steps. Hextall didn't feel the time was right to make big moves and take more risks. I believe in time, he would've gotten the team to that phase and taken the shots. He knew the team wasn't ready. The injury to Elliott just killed them.
- MJL


I would have preferred Hexy stayed.

My opinion on why he is not

We know Hextall knew about the goalie issue, we know he knew about the center issue, i believe 100% he tried to address them but he didn’t. I am sure the price was too high for hextall and where he thought the team was. Then you have his relationship going up the ladder and with alumni. There was an article where Roberts is it, commented on a meeting that fletcher was having, that is had all leaders working together and how he had not seen that in 6 years. Right or wrong that is telling on how he and Hextalls relationship stood.

I think Hextall always tried to make the right moves to help the on ice team, for whatever reason he couldn’t, this is a results business. He could not make the moves, they were losing again and he didn’t have the confidence or a good relationship with leadership.

Nuevy, no center, bad relationships, not winning, when you break them down in their own, he doesn’t get fired. When you look at them in total, he does.

I would of have fired him but to say there was no case to fire him, is not correct, in my opinion.
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