So has he played 57 games at the NHL level or 59?1

So did the Scuderi contract...I don't have much faith that hell get it done, but I cling to the memory of that deal as my last hope.
- joecool2931

That was a 1 for 1 where we ate $$$. We don't have that luxury on this. We need to clear his entire contract.
We ate 1mill of scuderi's contract to add Daley, who cost more than Scuderi to begin with, so not ideal. Didn't mean to ruin your hope.

So has he played 57 games at the NHL level or 59?1
- dcoms77

Let's just settle on 58.

That was a 1 for 1 where we ate $$$. We don't have that luxury on this. We need to clear his entire contract.
We ate 1mill of scuderi's contract to add Daley, who cost more than Scuderi to begin with, so not ideal. Didn't mean to ruin your hope.
- burgh4life87

Or they could just trade Malkin...

Thanks for the worst case scenario
- Barnaby36

It’s also the most likely.

Or they could just trade Malkin...


- jmatchett383

For David Backes and TJ Oshie?

Would you rather have this guy for 640k less per year but one year longer...or Tanev?

Would you rather have this guy for 640k less per year but one year longer...or Tanev?








- MattStrat

I'll take option A. Younger, 24, so can still improve.. cheaper always good... and has that "big game step up" bonus with that hat trick.

I'll take option A. Younger, 24, so can still improve.. cheaper always good... and has that "big game step up" bonus with that hat trick.
- Guile

Im thinking that too...

There is difference in ice time and quality of teammates here. Sissons was on the better end of both.

Any idea how the penalty differential works? My first thought is it has to do with penalties drawn/given while on the ice....that it?

Just a reminder on Micah’s charts: you want to see positive numbers in the O zone and negative numbers in the D zone. Hopefully ZAR is having a solid offseason and makes the most of his opportunity this next season

Yeah I agree. In a vacuum the contract isn’t bad but given the Pens cap position and roster makeup, it was a bad move.

If JJ gets moved with Rust, I won’t give a poop about the move though. But if Rust goes by himself for cap relief, it was a poor contract.
- j.boyd919

If signing Tanev forces a trade that ultimately improves the defense...will we all be happy?

If signing Tanev forces a trade that ultimately improves the defense...will we all be happy?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

No team has a perfect situation and all GM’s have one or two bad contracts that ultimately make life more difficult than it should be, but I believe if JR can get JJ shipped out we will all be happier as fans.

The follow-up will be making sure they have the ability to make a deadline move if Riikola doesn’t work out.

That maybe closer to what it should be but when a similar type of player like Joonas Donkoi is getting $3.9 for the next four years, is that realistic? Tanev's contract might look pretty good in two years. Let's hope it does.
- stevens87

I dont think enough people look at the fit of the player being signed. It's easy to look at a chart and say Donskoi for $X million... or Johansson for $X million... is better than Tanev for $X million.

Brassard had the best metrics of any 3C we've had since Staal. But he didn't fit the need we had... and many said it at the time.

It's why I can't stand using advanced metrics as a bible of all knowledge. Its a very useful tool, but lot's of the analytic-driven hypotheticals RW has posted over the years didn't pan out so hot. Letang for Eberle. He even wanted to trade Dumoulin for Ty Rattie because Rattie had X amount of production in the AHL.

We also have to factor in that not all great possession players are necessarily great players...Marcel Goc... Daniel Winnik.. cough Dom Simon.

A lineup of vanilla possession players doesnt win. Fit matters.

I dont think enough people look at the fit of the player being signed. It's easy to look at a chart and say Donskoi for $X million... or Johansson for $X million... is better than Tanev for $X million.

Brassard had the best metrics of any 3C we've had since Staal. But he didn't fit the need we had... and many said it at the time.

It's why I can't stand using advanced metrics as a bible of all knowledge. Its a very useful tool, but lot's of the analytic-driven hypotheticals RW has posted over the years didn't pan out so hot. Letang for Eberle. He even wanted to trade Dumoulin for Ty Rattie because Rattie had X amount of production in the AHL.

We also have to factor in that not all great possession players are necessarily great players...Marcel Goc... Daniel Winnik.. cough Dom Simon.

A lineup of vanilla possession players doesnt win. Fit matters.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Good post. I agree. I still think there's a lot to learn and decipher from the charts though.

If signing Tanev forces a trade that ultimately improves the defense...will we all be happy?
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Yes.

I dont think enough people look at the fit of the player being signed. It's easy to look at a chart and say Donskoi for $X million... or Johansson for $X million... is better than Tanev for $X million.

Brassard had the best metrics of any 3C we've had since Staal. But he didn't fit the need we had... and many said it at the time.

It's why I can't stand using advanced metrics as a bible of all knowledge. Its a very useful tool, but lot's of the analytic-driven hypotheticals RW has posted over the years didn't pan out so hot. Letang for Eberle. He even wanted to trade Dumoulin for Ty Rattie because Rattie had X amount of production in the AHL.

We also have to factor in that not all great possession players are necessarily great players...Marcel Goc... Daniel Winnik.. cough Dom Simon.

A lineup of vanilla possession players doesnt win. Fit matters.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

I get what you are saying here, but these metrics used properly are a great way to help find a fit. Metrics, and statistics in theory, are just philosophy. We have provided something quantifiable to the argument, but none of this is fact. Simply put, metrics provide a much greater depth to the argument over someone just saying "watch the game nerd".

Which is why just blindly stating that someone with good overall metrics are a top line guy who needs to play. There is more to the story. Someone will interpret these metrics beyond what they actually mean.

So abusing them as a be all end all to an argument is just as knucklheaded as saying someone is terrible without any evidence.

No trades are coming.

GMJR is going to play hardball with Petterson because he has no arb rights and run a 22 man roster to start the season.
- Feds91Stammer

Get used to this idea

Get used to this idea
- Feds91Stammer

Why does he have no arbitration rights?

I get what you are saying here, but these metrics used properly are a great way to help find a fit. Metrics, and statistics in theory, are just philosophy. We have provided something quantifiable to the argument, but none of this is fact. Simply put, metrics provide a much greater depth to the argument over someone just saying "watch the game nerd".

Which is why just blindly stating that someone with good overall metrics are a top line guy who needs to play. There is more to the story. Someone will interpret these metrics beyond what they actually mean.

So abusing them as a be all end all to an argument is just as knucklheaded as saying someone is terrible without any evidence.
- burgh4life87

I agree with both posts. Taking an offensive 2C and taking away his QoT, his TOI, and his PP opportunities is not a good recipe for success which is why i was calling people idiots for wanting has as a 3C in Pitt. It doesn’t make sense for us and it certainly doesn’t make sense for the player

I dont think enough people look at the fit of the player being signed. It's easy to look at a chart and say Donskoi for $X million... or Johansson for $X million... is better than Tanev for $X million.

Brassard had the best metrics of any 3C we've had since Staal. But he didn't fit the need we had... and many said it at the time.

It's why I can't stand using advanced metrics as a bible of all knowledge. Its a very useful tool, but lot's of the analytic-driven hypotheticals RW has posted over the years didn't pan out so hot. Letang for Eberle. He even wanted to trade Dumoulin for Ty Rattie because Rattie had X amount of production in the AHL.

We also have to factor in that not all great possession players are necessarily great players...Marcel Goc... Daniel Winnik.. cough Dom Simon.

A lineup of vanilla possession players doesnt win. Fit matters.
- YouMeAndDupuis9

Letang for Eberle and Dumo for Rattie never happened so we can’t really judge those.

Also when did he ever post Letang for Eberle? I cant remember that one but would love to re-read that blog hahah.

Goc, Winnik and Simon are/were good players. They aren’t great but their teams always play better when they are on the ice so I don’t really know what that one means either. Gocs problem in Pittsburgh was that he was flanked by complete bums in Tanner Glass and Graig Adams.

All in all this post is pretty empty and isn’t really saying much.

Edit: found the Letang for Eberle article. It’s under the circumstances that the Pens retain Martin, Despres, and Niskanen... not exactly far fetched given the season Niskanen and Maatta were having. Did it age well? Nope but given the circumstances of the times, it really wasn’t that bad.

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...r-Jordan-Eberle/177/57097

Why does he have no arbitration rights?
- Rinosaur

Has to do with ELC signing age and pro years. Capfriendly has a calculator.

Why does he have no arbitration rights?
- Rinosaur

Hasn’t been in the league long enough. CBA 12.1(a)

Has to do with ELC signing age and pro years. Capfriendly has a calculator.
- Feds91Stammer

He signed his ECL between ages 18-20 so he needs to have 4 years of pro experience to be eligible. 21 YO is 3 years, 22-23 is 2 years and 24+ is 1 year of pro experience. ZAR was 22

I agree with both posts. Taking an offensive 2C and taking away his QoT, his TOI, and his PP opportunities is not a good recipe for success which is why i was calling people idiots for wanting has as a 3C in Pitt. It doesn’t make sense for us and it certainly doesn’t make sense for the player
- WSCTeton17

but at the same time it doesn't make sense for a player, in a contract year, to play like an old dog plays fetch.

And didn't Phil start out on brass's line to begin the year? or at least get a decent look.and he was given oppurtunities on the wing. His QOT was hardly down from his time in NY and probably better than in Ottawa. In terms of TOI and PP, i agree with you, his production will dip. But (frank), deal with the hand your dealt and work harder. you don't see Rust pouting when he doesn't get to play 1st line and I don't expect Tanev to either. which is why i don't see the brassard's problem a "fit" problem. Just he was a baby who only wanted to put on the booboo face.

Letang for Eberle and Dumo for Rattie never happened so we can’t really judge those.

Also when did he ever post Letang for Eberle? I cant remember that one but would love to re-read that blog hahah.

Goc, Winnik and Simon are/were good players. They aren’t great but their teams always play better when they are on the ice so I don’t really know what that one means either. Gocs problem in Pittsburgh was that he was flanked by complete bums in Tanner Glass and Graig Adams.

All in all this post is pretty empty and isn’t really saying much.

Edit: found the Letang for Eberle article. It’s under the circumstances that the Pens retain Martin, Despres, and Niskanen... not exactly far fetched given the season Niskanen and Maatta were having. Did it age well? Nope but given the circumstances of the times, it really wasn’t that bad.

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...r-Jordan-Eberle/177/57097
- j.boyd919

Kind of my point though. Goc, Winnik, and Simon would be a terrible bottom 6 line. They would never score. You need a balance of skillsets. 1 Dominik Simon isnt a bad thing... but 6 of them would be.

We've all seen the effect bringing up a player from Wilkes has. They come up with insane energy, would do anything to win, fly around the ice....and then 10 games later you realize why they are AHL players. That's what Tanev is going to bring. Straight energy and fore-checking, consistently every night while not being an offensive liability.

I've seen plenty of vanilla possession guys over the years and the Pens have had a bunch of them. I mean no player is a perfect comp but that's why I would take guys like ZAR or Tanev over Goc's, Winnik's, and Sheahan's of the world.