James Tanner: Grading the Coyotes Summer Transactions Part One

What if their GM was Jenn Chayka instead?

Jimmy can you elaborate on why you believe hextall was a bad gm?

What if their GM was Jenn Chayka instead?
- ChonDerry

I don't understand what you're saying ?

Tanner, clearly you don't like Hextall and Chiarelli...but at least its Ron and Peter instead of Ruth and Patty. Did the millenials at your favourite tazo chai tea place look up from their laptops and forgive you today?

I don't understand what you're saying ?
- James_Tanner

Perhaps some reading comprehension classes are in order. Maybe some writing classes while you're at it. Spelling and grammar wouldn't hurt either. Maybe you could find a new personality too. Hell, just scrap the whole thing and start over. Can't be any worse.

Jimmy can you elaborate on what you believe hextall talk was a bad gm?
- daryl stanley

1) Never finished higher than third
2) Way too conservative - didn't make a single trade you could call a blockbuster
3) wasted Girioux's best years / Didn't capitalize on having one of the best combos in the game while it was.
4) Schenn trade probably his biggest and it's a dud (though prospects could work out)
5) Lacks aggression, doesn't appear interested in statistical analysis. Classic old-school guesser.

I am just not generally a fan. It's not like he was horrible - and in the NHL that says something - but he didn't do enough over five years that would make me want to give him a job.

Tanner, clearly you don't like Hextall and Chiarelli...but at least its Ron and Peter instead of Ruth and Patty. Did the millenials at your favourite tazo chai tea place look up from their laptops and forgive you today?
- uofcguy

I don't get the reference, but I do hope there is a woman GM someday soon.

I don't get the reference, but I do hope there is a woman GM someday soon.
- James_Tanner

Hmm, interesting, yesterday you seemed to suggest that by the time you get to the absolute bottom of the barrel, then you might as well just hire a woman since they can't do any worse.

Now suddenly you're a champion for women to get a job. Did your tazo chai barista give you a mean look today?

I don't understand what you're saying ?
- James_Tanner

Damn women cant even phrase a sentence right

30 goals, 70 points minimum for Kessel?

Are you on crack right now?

Hmm, interesting, yesterday you seemed to suggest that by the time you get to the absolute bottom of the barrel, then you might as well just hire a woman since they can't do any worse.

Now suddenly you're a champion for women to get a job. Did your tazo chai barista give you a mean look today?
- uofcguy

I was suggesting it would be a good thing to hire a women. I was countering the inevitable push-back against such a sane idea by pointing out that you couldn't possible be worse than Chiarelli, regardless of who you are.

It's clear to me that you just want to take things in the worst possible way. There is no way you could read what I wrote and actually think that.

1) Never finished higher than third
2) Way too conservative - didn't make a single trade you could call a blockbuster
3) wasted Girioux's best years / Didn't capitalize on having one of the best combos in the game while it was.
4) Schenn trade probably his biggest and it's a dud (though prospects could work out)
5) Lacks aggression, doesn't appear interested in statistical analysis. Classic old-school guesser.

I am just not generally a fan. It's not like he was horrible - and in the NHL that says something - but he didn't do enough over five years that would make me want to give him a job.
- James_Tanner

Dude, both prospects he chose with the 1st round draft picks from the Schenn trade are tracking extremely well to make the NHL. He also got the Flyers out of Cap Hell and cleaned up a helluva mess left in his hand from Holmgren. Building a sustainable window takes time, and Fletcher looks poised to reap the benefits of Hexy’s work.
Think you are way off base with your evaluation of his tenure and need to look a lot closer into it before mentioning him in the same breath as Chiarelli

1) Never finished higher than third
2) Way too conservative - didn't make a single trade you could call a blockbuster
3) wasted Girioux's best years / Didn't capitalize on having one of the best combos in the game while it was.
4) Schenn trade probably his biggest and it's a dud (though prospects could work out)
5) Lacks aggression, doesn't appear interested in statistical analysis. Classic old-school guesser.

I am just not generally a fan. It's not like he was horrible - and in the NHL that says something - but he didn't do enough over five years that would make me want to give him a job.
- James_Tanner

1) Was focused on long-term -- rebuilding the farm system, investing in development infrastructure (a state-of-the-art training facility, expanding the development coaching staff, creating a sports science section) and creating long term cap space -- rather than "win now". It may work out long-term. It may not. But there was very much a plan, and it was well-articulated.

2) No he didn't make any blockbuster trades but the Flyers had a deal 99 percent done to get the first overall pick in 2014, and Florida got cold feet at the last moment.

3) Last I checked, Giroux has 197 points over the past two seasons. Moving to wing prolonged his prime, and he's not close to looking on the downside yet. Voracek (if that's who you are referring to, even though they haven't been on same 5-on-5 line the majority of the past two seasons) has averaged 75 points over the past two seasons. He's still pretty good. If you mean Couturier, the past two seasons have been the best two of his career to date, and he's still only 26 (so he's in what should be his prime).

4) Any GM that wouldn't take two first-round picks -- the two of whom (Frost and Farabee) now comprise the organization's top two forward prospects -- in exchange for a non-nucleus player (albeit a quality one), should be fired on the spot. The Flyers had to eat a bad contract for two seasons with Lehterä, but the picks obtained were excellent asset management.

5) The only guesser here, James, is you. You jump to a conclusion that is not grounded in reality. While Hextall isn't an "analytics first" GM, he does incorporate it to some degree because he's very much a leave-no-stone unturned type who is always searching for those 1% and 2% boosts. It was actually during his tenure that the Flyers expanded upon some of their proprietary analytics and hired full-timers to run analytics. Additionally, if you want an education on how the game has changed, talk to Hextall sometime. He has forgotten more about hockey than you and I combined will ever know.

I was suggesting it would be a good thing to hire a women. I was countering the inevitable push-back against such a sane idea by pointing out that you couldn't possible be worse than Chiarelli, regardless of who you are.

It's clear to me that you just want to take things in the worst possible way. There is no way you could read what I wrote and actually think that.
- James_Tanner

Not his fault that you wrote it in a way that made it sound sexist as hell and got your thread closed in minutes.

1) Was focused on long-term -- rebuilding the farm system, investing in development infrastructure (a state-of-the-art training facility, expanding the development coaching staff, creating a sports science section) and creating long term cap space -- rather than "win now". It may work out long-term. It may not. But there was very much a plan, and it was well-articulated.

2) No he didn't make any blockbuster trades but the Flyers had a deal 99 percent done to get the first overall pick in 2014, and Florida got cold feet at the last moment.

3) Last I checked, Giroux has 197 points over the past two seasons. Moving to wing prolonged his prime, and he's not close to looking on the downside yet. Voracek (if that's who you are referring to, even though they haven't been on same 5-on-5 line the majority of the past two seasons) has averaged 75 points over the past two seasons. He's still pretty good. If you mean Couturier, the past two seasons have been the best two of his career to date, and he's still only 26 (so he's in what should be his prime).

4) Any GM that wouldn't take two first-round picks -- the two of whom (Frost and Farabee) now comprise the organization's top two forward prospects -- in exchange for a non-nucleus player (albeit a quality one), should be fired on the spot. The Flyers had to eat a bad contract for two seasons with Lehterä, but the picks obtained were excellent asset management.

5) The only guesser here, James, is you. You jump to a conclusion that is not grounded in reality. While Hextall isn't an "analytics first" GM, he does incorporate it to some degree because he's very much a leave-no-stone unturned type who is always searching for those 1% and 2% boosts. It was actually during his tenure that the Flyers expanded upon some of their proprietary analytics and hired full-timers to run analytics. Additionally, if you want an education on how the game has changed, talk to Hextall sometime. He has forgotten more about hockey than you and I combined will ever know.
- bmeltzer

Boom. Roasted by Meltzer. Destroyed actually. But since Hextall is absolute bottom of the barrel...well...might as well just hire a woman at that point. Does Chayka have a sister?

1) Never finished higher than third


- James_Tanner

Finishing 3rd in a very tough metro conference was a good step up.

2) Way too conservative - didn't make a single trade you could call a blockbuster


- James_Tanner

Wasn't the right time to make a blockbuster trade. When he took over the team, they had prospect deficiencies and the cap situation needed to be improved.

3) wasted Girioux's best years / Didn't capitalize on having one of the best combos in the game while it was.


- James_Tanner

He didn't waste those years. The timing wasn't right. Going out and going hog wild in the trade and UFA markets was not the right thing to do at the time

4) Schenn trade probably his biggest and it's a dud (though prospects could work out)


- James_Tanner

It's a dud! On the same level as your blog? Getting two first round picks for Schenn was outstanding value. Frost and Farabee have the potential to be really good NHL players. You're uninformed.

5) Lacks aggression, doesn't appear interested in statistical analysis. Classic old-school guesser.


- James_Tanner

Again, you're uninformed. He hired a stats guy and built an analytics department. Seems as though this is like all of your blogs and statement. Uninformed and wrong.

I am just not generally a fan. It's not like he was horrible - and in the NHL that says something - but he didn't do enough over five years that would make me want to give him a job.


- James_Tanner

In the next couple of seasons the Flyers are going to surge to the top of the NHL. The Flyers are stacked with young players and prospects. Mostly obtained by Hextall.

Bill, dont waste your time. Tiny Jim here doesn't care about facts

He has forgotten more about hockey than you and I combined will ever know.
- bmeltzer

Make that just you Bill. Tanner doesn't really know much to state the obvious.

Age discrimination is real!... And Jimmy Tanner is guilty of it!

What happened to Jimmy's last comments section?....Did his age discrimination, And hatred of Woman get the best of him?

Does anyone read this blog and feel that there was any actual effort put into it! Just writing part one must of been exhausting. So much in there that it had to be split up into parts! In today's information age and access to the internet, how hard is to be informed to at least some degree on an NHL GM?

I used a thing called Google. Here is a link to that James.
https://www.google.com/

I googled " Hextall hired analytics guy". In less than two seconds, I received the following info.

https://www.inquirer.com/...tics_to_build_Flyers.html

https://www.broadstreetho...rs-hockey-analytics-stats

I would loosely call that research but that's the investment it took me to find info on Hextall and analytics. Between this blog and the last blog, how many inaccuracies did the blogger write?

Does anyone read this blog and feel that there was any actual effort put into it! Just writing part one must of been exhausting. So much in there that it had to be split up into parts! In today's information age and access to the internet, how hard is to be informed to at least some degree on an NHL GM?

I used a thing called Google. Here is a link to that James.
https://www.google.com/

I googled " Hextall hired analytics guy". In less than two seconds, I received the following info.

https://www.inquirer.com/...tics_to_build_Flyers.html

https://www.broadstreetho...rs-hockey-analytics-stats

I would loosely call that research but that's the investment it took me to find info on Hextall and analytics. Between this blog and the last blog, how many inaccuracies did the blogger write?
- MJL

He literally gave a trade an A+ b/c it's one of his favorite players hes not even hiding that he doesn't care about facts

1) Was focused on long-term -- rebuilding the farm system, investing in development infrastructure (a state-of-the-art training facility, expanding the development coaching staff, creating a sports science section) and creating long term cap space -- rather than "win now". It may work out long-term. It may not. But there was very much a plan, and it was well-articulated.

2) No he didn't make any blockbuster trades but the Flyers had a deal 99 percent done to get the first overall pick in 2014, and Florida got cold feet at the last moment.

3) Last I checked, Giroux has 197 points over the past two seasons. Moving to wing prolonged his prime, and he's not close to looking on the downside yet. Voracek (if that's who you are referring to, even though they haven't been on same 5-on-5 line the majority of the past two seasons) has averaged 75 points over the past two seasons. He's still pretty good. If you mean Couturier, the past two seasons have been the best two of his career to date, and he's still only 26 (so he's in what should be his prime).

4) Any GM that wouldn't take two first-round picks -- the two of whom (Frost and Farabee) now comprise the organization's top two forward prospects -- in exchange for a non-nucleus player (albeit a quality one), should be fired on the spot. The Flyers had to eat a bad contract for two seasons with Lehterä, but the picks obtained were excellent asset management.

5) The only guesser here, James, is you. You jump to a conclusion that is not grounded in reality. While Hextall isn't an "analytics first" GM, he does incorporate it to some degree because he's very much a leave-no-stone unturned type who is always searching for those 1% and 2% boosts. It was actually during his tenure that the Flyers expanded upon some of their proprietary analytics and hired full-timers to run analytics. Additionally, if you want an education on how the game has changed, talk to Hextall sometime. He has forgotten more about hockey than you and I combined will ever know.
- bmeltzer

1) If he was focused on long-term building, I think he could have done much better. Either you trade Giroux or Voracek (horrible contract he gave him too) and star over or you try to win while they were in their prime.

When Hextall took over, they were one of the best combos there was. I think Hextall was stuck in no-man's land (again, he was way too conservative) and should have picked a lane.

2) I'm sure he tried, but he didn't make any really good or any really big trades.

3) I meant Giroux and Voracek, both of whom he signed to big deals. They're now on the downside of those deals and they didn't pan out. (By which I mean they didn't come close to winning while they were good contracts) It's nice and all that Girioux is aging gracefully, but the time to win was the second those contracts were signed, not now when they're both 31.

The Couturier and Ghost contracts were very good, still are. And I would have no problem with the contracts for the two big stars if they tried to win when these deals were still paying dividends. (The Giroux contract isn't terrible today, but who wants to pay almost nine millino for ages 31-34?)

4) The Schenn deal is still bad. It's nice if the prospects work out, but a known commodity for two late round picks isn't great. Again, if the Flyers were also trading other players from their roster this trade would make more sense, but Hextall wouldn't commit one way or the other and he waffled until he was fired.

5) I'm not guessing - the evidence that he's not a very good GM is strong. I do hope he knows more about hockey than me though since it's his job. You can't really compare the knowledge of a career hockey man with that of a guy who has to spend 50 hours a week on a different profession.

Bottom line: Hextall was too risk adverse, and too conservative to be a good GM. He did nothing that stands out as excellent, and several things that don't seem too hot. While I don't think he's terrible, I do think limiting a team's job search to just ex-NHL players is extremely stupid.

1) If he was focused on long-term building, I think he could have done much better. Either you trade Giroux or Voracek (horrible contract he gave him too) and star over or you try to win while they were in their prime.

When Hextall took over, they were one of the best combos there was. I think Hextall was stuck in no-man's land (again, he was way too conservative) and should have picked a lane.

2) I'm sure he tried, but he didn't make any really good or any really big trades.

3) I meant Giroux and Voracek, both of whom he signed to big deals. They're now on the downside of those deals and they didn't pan out. (By which I mean they didn't come close to winning while they were good contracts) It's nice and all that Girioux is aging gracefully, but the time to win was the second those contracts were signed, not now when they're both 31.

The Couturier and Ghost contracts were very good, still are. And I would have no problem with the contracts for the two big stars if they tried to win when these deals were still paying dividends. (The Giroux contract isn't terrible today, but who wants to pay almost nine millino for ages 31-34?)

4) The Schenn deal is still bad. It's nice if the prospects work out, but a known commodity for two late round picks isn't great. Again, if the Flyers were also trading other players from their roster this trade would make more sense, but Hextall wouldn't commit one way or the other and he waffled until he was fired.

5) I'm not guessing - the evidence that he's not a very good GM is strong. I do hope he knows more about hockey than me though since it's his job. You can't really compare the knowledge of a career hockey man with that of a guy who has to spend 50 hours a week on a different profession.

Bottom line: Hextall was too risk adverse, and too conservative to be a good GM. He did nothing that stands out as excellent, and several things that don't seem too hot. While I don't think he's terrible, I do think limiting a team's job search to just ex-NHL players is extremely stupid.
- James_Tanner

Good for you that Chayka is aggressive and willing to roll the dice!
Even if those dice keep coming up snake eyes every time.