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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: Rounding out the Top 6
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chuckdahammer
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 11.01.2016

Aug 12 @ 12:02 PM ET
First of all, great blog Tyler We need to forget the term "TRUE TOP LINE WINGER". The "top line" combos of Kane-Toews and Debrinkat-Strome are the main guys there. You are looking for a third party to COMPLIMENT the play of the other two guys. Last year, Cagiulla did just that ... complimented Toews and Kane. You can't have an all perimeter line team. Somebody has to do the grunt work on each line. There are more wild cards this year on this team than in years and that might determine who plays with Line one and two. I think Nylander will start off in Rockford and get his game together. His coach with the Chicago Mission is an assistant coach in Rockford. Tyler had as one option, Saad with Cat and Strome and that might work as he is more defensively responsible .... but if Dach is your 3rd line center ... Saad and Shaw with the kid sounds really good. Kane and Toews need complimentary winger .... as 88 will be the one who drives that line and Toews will only be better if you can have a third winger as the net front presense, corner man .... a more greasy guy. You want to score goals .... GO TO THE FRONT OF THE NET ! Cannot have perimeter oriented line. We've seen that in the past too much
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Aug 12 @ 12:03 PM ET
I think he can play 3C or as a winger to start. He is capable of doing some of the things Kruger did for the Hawks. He is going to surprise people and push hard for an NHL job out pf camp.
- RickJ


Kurashev has more offensive talent than Kruger had. The few games at the Rock at the end of the season, the rockford staff was commenting on his defernsive awareness was above what they were anticipating. Plus he did not look out of place playing at the worlds against men. As stated before, would be a good 3rd line C or wing, with possible mid 6 potential. I would love a Kurashev, Saad, Kubalik 3rd line.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Aug 12 @ 12:04 PM ET
No cup without Bickell in '13, only player they had hitting anybody in '15. Not his fault he has MS and no doctor found it until he was sent to Rockford and dealt with Tevo...
- rpeters01


Agreed. His hits left marks in those playoff runs. On a personal note, I'm glad he got paid before the MS.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Aug 12 @ 12:04 PM ET
That was what's seems like a lifetime ago, he also had hossa as his wingman.

Toews hasn't been the same player productive wise in points since then with the exception to last year.

Toews would certainly be a steady player , but I'm not taking the over that he repeats last year's numbers next year.

Toews, Kane , Keith and Seabrook are all much older , played a lot of intense hockey and games . The team just needs them to play at a better than level maybe not above and beyond, but that would be great also.


If we all recall toews use to take the puck hard to the net in the past a lot, haven't seen that in a long time from him.

- Taylorst1

I said everything you said last week and was told I was stupid Toews will be great to the end of his contract. What comes round goes round.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Aug 12 @ 12:07 PM ET
That would be a safe and smart move.
- Taylorst1

That would make him a UFA I'm sure...
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Orange, CA
Joined: 11.06.2015

Aug 12 @ 12:10 PM ET
Correct me if I'm mis-remembering, but didn't 19/88 have success with Bryan Bickell as their LW? Big, went into the corners to create havoc, planted his butt in front of the net, etc.

As you state, if JC puts a light weight (lavender sniffer?) on the left side, Toews is going to be doing all the grunt work, which makes him less effective. JT had his greatest success with two big strong fast wings (Saad/Hossa).

I like Caggiula with 19/88 and Shaw with Strome/Dcact. That leaves Saad free to skate L3 with Dach.

- scottak


Toews also had success last year playing with ADB and Kahun, so I is not unheard of for him to play well with a variety of partners. I agree with your thinking that in the end it would benefit the Hawks (and Toews for that matter) to have better cycle-type players on Toews line.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Aug 12 @ 12:17 PM ET
if you want Saad in the top 6, just flip ADB to right wing and move Saad to the left.

Strome-Saad-ADB, on paper that is a strong line, and Saad would be the defensively responsible one on that line.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Orange, CA
Joined: 11.06.2015

Aug 12 @ 12:21 PM ET
Your wrong . Dead wrong. I don't live in a fantasy world of using my emotions over facts.

In his illustrious career 395 games played only 136 total points? That's not even 50 percent.

Your argument is based on opinion at best.

This has nothing to do with his MS either , it's solely based on numbers and where he played most of his games at 4th line , bench warmer.

Bryan Bickell was not a true top 6 power forward.

- Taylorst1


In fairness though, the only mention on this thread of Bickell is that he had some success with Toews and Kane, not that he was a great player. That statement is true.

Bickell was never a great regular season player, but he was better than 0.5 PPG in the playoffs and was easily one of the best players for the Hawks in the 2013 playoffs. The point of the original post about Bickell was the type of players that are best paired with Toews and Kane (or at least Toews). It looks like you projected that a bit further than originally intended.
Elbows15
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I was going to do the math on this but I don't think it will help., IL
Joined: 08.04.2013

Aug 12 @ 12:44 PM ET
I think he can play 3C or as a winger to start. He is capable of doing some of the things Kruger did for the Hawks. He is going to surprise people and push hard for an NHL job out pf camp.
- RickJ

Kurashev has more offense to him than Kruger. Reminds me more of Danault. Kid is a puck hunter.
Elbows15
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: I was going to do the math on this but I don't think it will help., IL
Joined: 08.04.2013

Aug 12 @ 12:47 PM ET
That would make him a UFA I'm sure...
- rpeters01

Good. He sucks.
RickJ
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Burlington, ON
Joined: 01.12.2010

Aug 12 @ 12:58 PM ET
Kurashev has more offense to him than Kruger. Reminds me more of Danault. Kid is a puck hunter.
- Elbows15

You and Vlady Putin have more offence than Kruger.

I wasnt comparing Kurashev to Kruger; I just think he can do some of the things as a young player that Kruger did - PK, selective faceoffs etc. That of course will be after Colliton concludes that Ryan Carpenter and a few other off season signings are stiffs and they are no reason to hold back Kurashev.
Rota's Rooter
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.23.2017

Aug 12 @ 1:02 PM ET
You and Vlady Putin have more offence than Kruger.

I wasnt comparing Kurashev to Kruger; I just think he can do some of the things as a young player that Kruger did - PK, selective faceoffs etc. That of course will be after Colliton concludes that Ryan Carpenter and a few other off season signings are stiffs and they are no reason to hold back Kurashev.

- RickJ

AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Aug 12 @ 1:02 PM ET
Kurashev has more offensive talent than Kruger had. The few games at the Rock at the end of the season, the rockford staff was commenting on his defernsive awareness was above what they were anticipating. Plus he did not look out of place playing at the worlds against men. As stated before, would be a good 3rd line C or wing, with possible mid 6 potential. I would love a Kurashev, Saad, Kubalik 3rd line.
- LAHawk

Kurashev's defensive awareness is naturally solid. As you said, his commitment to defense was noticeable in his initial stint with the Hogs late last season. His coverage was excellent and so was his ability to support his blueliners who were carrying the puck, pinching, or simply straying out of position.

Kurashev did play conservatively on offense but did make smart, fundamentally sound plays whenever he did possess the puck. Playing a full pro season will aid in his confidence to show off his offensive talent. Hopefully he plays top 6 in Rockford, possibly even the 1st line.
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Aug 12 @ 1:31 PM ET
What's the defensive impact of these possibilities? When they last played, the Hawks were an awful defensive team. Are one of the top two lines gonna be expected to shut down the other team's best line? If so, how can a line with Kane and Nylander do that? Or a line with Strome and Cat?

The GA number will improve because the defensemen are better, and the goalie situation has improved. But it ain't gonna get a ton better if 40 minutes are played by a Top 6 with one or two guys who know the ice is 200 feet in length.

- mohel

Impact of the new system. Another blogger has stated that Colliton's system will result in less goals scored both for and against.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Aug 12 @ 1:37 PM ET
Agreed. His hits left marks in those playoff runs. On a personal note, I'm glad he got paid before the MS.
- mohel



Totally agree.
rpeters01
Joined: 07.09.2016

Aug 12 @ 1:40 PM ET

- Rota's Rooter

"I believe Sikura has offense because Putin told me he does."
jhawk59
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 02.15.2013

Aug 12 @ 1:41 PM ET
First of all, great blog Tyler We need to forget the term "TRUE TOP LINE WINGER". The "top line" combos of Kane-Toews and Debrinkat-Strome are the main guys there. You are looking for a third party to COMPLIMENT the play of the other two guys. Last year, Cagiulla did just that ... complimented Toews and Kane. You can't have an all perimeter line team. Somebody has to do the grunt work on each line. There are more wild cards this year on this team than in years and that might determine who plays with Line one and two. I think Nylander will start off in Rockford and get his game together. His coach with the Chicago Mission is an assistant coach in Rockford. Tyler had as one option, Saad with Cat and Strome and that might work as he is more defensively responsible .... but if Dach is your 3rd line center ... Saad and Shaw with the kid sounds really good. Kane and Toews need complimentary winger .... as 88 will be the one who drives that line and Toews will only be better if you can have a third winger as the net front presense, corner man .... a more greasy guy. You want to score goals .... GO TO THE FRONT OF THE NET ! Cannot have perimeter oriented line. We've seen that in the past too much
- chuckdahammer


My impression of Colliton is that he is, indeed, a bright guy. Therefore i do not believe Nylander would stay for long with Toews and Kane. There may be instances where they play together. But long term Colliton is going to do what works and how he wants them to play. Nylander is not going be everything Colliton would like to see if on that line. Nylander like Toews and Kane needs a greasy front of net and boards linemates - one or two of them. Would Kurasaev or other rookies be acceptable fulfilling that role? You place players in situations that make sense. Unlike ridiculously using Keith on top pp pair where there were things he couldn't do.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Aug 12 @ 1:55 PM ET
Agreed. His hits left marks in those playoff runs. On a personal note, I'm glad he got paid before the MS.
- mohel


I think he probably had MS in ‘15 ( pure speculation). He was able to show up for a few playoff series though.

He also wasn’t a 4th liner. Dude had a wicked wrist shot and aside from his lazy big turns at times he actually skated very well for a big guy.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Aug 12 @ 1:59 PM ET
Toews was pretty fancy game 7 in Anaheim 2015 playoffs.
- rpeters01


Toews always had some fancy moves and elusive skating as well as some really nice power moves. I think he started focusing too much on the power cycle game. I recall maybe 2 years ago that he said he got too heavy and muscle bound and didn’t like how he felt on the ice.

Last year we saw a faster more dynamic offensive minded Toews. I don’t think that’s going away. I expect the same from him this year. He’s always going to grind and get tough garbage goals too but he has plenty of offensive talent in the arsenal.

walleyeb1
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Petersburg, IL
Joined: 09.25.2014

Aug 12 @ 2:03 PM ET
It's not minimizing , it's called stating facts. Bickell only shining season was 2012-13 cup run. Before and after that he was just a big body bang and crash player who played 4th line with a occasional 3rd line.
- Taylorst1



While his role changed somewhat, Bickell had a big impact in the 2015 Cup run.
AEL_Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: CA
Joined: 06.18.2016

Aug 12 @ 2:08 PM ET
I think Nylander will start off in Rockford and get his game together. His coach with the Chicago Mission is an assistant coach in Rockford.
- chuckdahammer

Great point and one that shouldn't be underestimated. In a recent interview, that coach Anders Sorensen did discuss what he felt was an unfair characterization of Nylander not caring about defense.

Even if he does care, bottom line is Nylander is still not getting it done with his play without the puck. Hope a coach from youth can help get him back on track.

Kane and Toews need complimentary winger .... as 88 will be the one who drives that line and Toews will only be better if you can have a third winger as the net front presense, corner man .... a more greasy guy. You want to score goals .... GO TO THE FRONT OF THE NET ! Cannot have perimeter oriented line. We've seen that in the past too much
- chuckdahammer

Based on potential and success, Kubalik would be a candidate worth considering as that net-front presence winger to complement Toews and Kane. At least on larger international ice, Kubalik has shown a knack for getting behind defenders and getting to seams to shoot the puck from in close.

Don't know enough about him yet, though, on his capacity to engage and win board battles and cycle game.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Aug 12 @ 2:19 PM ET
I think he probably had MS in ‘15 ( pure speculation). He was able to show up for a few playoff series though.

He also wasn’t a 4th liner. Dude had a wicked wrist shot and aside from his lazy big turns at times he actually skated very well for a big guy.

- bhawks2241


He did. He was quick enough to get into position for those hits.
Return of the Roar
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Solidly grounded in reality, IL
Joined: 07.27.2009

Aug 12 @ 2:25 PM ET
The 1LW and 2RW slots are critical to the success of the top six. Both positions need the same kind of player - grinder who can win board battles and keep the puck in the offensive zone.

Trouble is that no one on the roster has empirical body of work to support they can successfully just slot in.

Shaw...maybe now and then but not a full season. Not to mention he has missed about twenty games a year over the last three years. The rest of the available players to potentially fill that spot are either rookies, reclamation projects, or historically bottom six guys.

As for Bickell.....

IMHO, he would have been the 1LW going forward had it not been for his MS. He grew into that role and just as he found his game there, he got sick. Not Mark Stone dominant, but enough skill to have been that guy for the Hawks for a while. Those who disparage him are just wrong, and did not see his progression.

A healthy Bickell would also have solved a lot of cap problems too as the deal he got was a VERY reasonable $4MM/yr, and they would not have had to sweeten the deal to move him.

The Hawks have never filled the holes of Bickell and Hossa, and it shows. They will have a MUCH better bottom six, but those two key top six positions do not have guys like Sikura, Nylander, or even the best of the bunch so far in Caggiula as the preferred personnel written in. I suspect we will see a LOT of early in season auditions by the whole list everyone has mentioned, but I don't think any of them possess all of the qualities required. Yet. Maybe.
ge1002
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: United States, TX
Joined: 05.02.2008

Aug 12 @ 2:28 PM ET
Caggulia-Toews-Kane
DeBrincat-Strome-Perlini
Saad-Dach-Shaw
Smith-Kampf-Carpenter

Reserves: Choose from Quenneville, Kubalik and Sikura

This looks like a professional lineup, not one with a bunch of hopes and prayers for unknowns and youngsters to come in and play better than they have shown so far at the NHL level, with the exception of the #3 pick in the draft playing on the third line anchored by seasoned pros on each side. Some scoring and/or grit throughout four lines. This should be a competitive NHL team when you take the additions on the blue line and in the net into consideration too.

- ChiTownHawkFan


I think this is the best projection. Drake did pretty well there last year, perilini showed some chemistry with Strome and Cat, you have to think Dach gets his 9 game tryout and that 4th line would be nails. I could see them trying Dach on the wing on line 1 and it's tough to think Kubalik isn't on starting roster. Nylander Q Sikura could play at the Rock and build from there..
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Aug 12 @ 2:52 PM ET
The 1LW and 2RW slots are critical to the success of the top six. Both positions need the same kind of player - grinder who can win board battles and keep the puck in the offensive zone.

Trouble is that no one on the roster has empirical body of work to support they can successfully just slot in.

Shaw...maybe now and then but not a full season. Not to mention he has missed about twenty games a year over the last three years. The rest of the available players to potentially fill that spot are either rookies, reclamation projects, or historically bottom six guys.

As for Bickell.....

IMHO, he would have been the 1LW going forward had it not been for his MS. He grew into that role and just as he found his game there, he got sick. Not Mark Stone dominant, but enough skill to have been that guy for the Hawks for a while. Those who disparage him are just wrong, and did not see his progression.

A healthy Bickell would also have solved a lot of cap problems too as the deal he got was a VERY reasonable $4MM/yr, and they would not have had to sweeten the deal to move him.

The Hawks have never filled the holes of Bickell and Hossa, and it shows. They will have a MUCH better bottom six, but those two key top six positions do not have guys like Sikura, Nylander, or even the best of the bunch so far in Caggiula as the preferred personnel written in. I suspect we will see a LOT of early in season auditions by the whole list everyone has mentioned, but I don't think any of them possess all of the qualities required. Yet. Maybe.

- Return of the Roar
.

Agree with this post. Bickell played 3LW (and in a more defensive roll), because Sharp and Saad played top 6. Bickell was starting to put it all together, as sometimes power forward needs some extra development time. Here is the line combinations for that 2013 Boston game 6, "17 seconds"

BIckell - Toews - Kane
Sharp - Handzus - Hossa
Saad - Shaw - Stalberg
Kruger - Bolland - Frolik
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