Michael Stuart: Could the Canucks be a Perfect Partner for a Namestnikov 2.0 Trade?

You must have read my suggestion in Carol’s blog

Is that the one where that Reuben fella suggested Stecher and Baertschi to Ottawa?😁

The Sen's are in a serious battle with Detroit, Dallas and Minnesota to achieve the best odds for gaining the top pick in a draft that really matters. Nobody should be thinking about making any kind of deal that weakens their natural advantage for failure.

Last night was a set back. The Sens need to take stock of where they are at and reenforce their commitment to veteran mediocrity and youthful inexperience. This is not the time for the team or fans to go wobbly on the long term prize.

Nick Paul played a very strong game and was exceptionally tough down low in the offensive zone.

Zaitsev played a team leading 25 minutes and looked steady all night.

Chabot's puck handling was a bit shaky at times. Sometimes he just pushes too hard. Overall the Sens D and goaltending played okay and benefited from a few lucky bounces.

The Sen's are in a serious battle with Detroit, Dallas and Minnesota to achieve the best odds for gaining the top pick in a draft that really matters. Nobody should be thinking about making any kind of deal that weakens their natural advantage for failure.

Last night was a set back. The Sens need to take stock of where they are at and reenforce their commitment to veteran mediocrity and youthful inexperience. This is not the time for the team or fans to go wobbly on the long term prize.
- spatso

First, put down the pipe and go outside for a walk. The fresh air will do you good.
Second, Dallas is not a threat to the basement dwellers.
Third, you're the only one with "a natural advantage for failure".
Fourth, that long term prize is a decade away. If the Sens can pick up Goldobin (a former first round pick) on the cheap then why not see what he can do? If he turns into a 20 goal scorer that's more valuable than a mid round draft pick.

Nick Paul played a very strong game and was exceptionally tough down low in the offensive zone.

Zaitsev played a team leading 25 minutes and looked steady all night.

Chabot's puck handling was a bit shaky at times. Sometimes he just pushes too hard. Overall the Sens D and goaltending played okay and benefited from a few lucky bounces.
- spatso

Nick Paul sucks. Everyone is tough down low against Detroit's defense.

The Sen's are in a serious battle with Detroit, Dallas and Minnesota to achieve the best odds for gaining the top pick in a draft that really matters. Nobody should be thinking about making any kind of deal that weakens their natural advantage for failure.

Last night was a set back. The Sens need to take stock of where they are at and reenforce their commitment to veteran mediocrity and youthful inexperience. This is not the time for the team or fans to go wobbly on the long term prize.
- spatso

I don't disagree, but all signs point to them trying to make a deal regardless.

I don't disagree, but all signs point to them trying to make a deal regardless.
- Michael_Stuart

I think it's about not embarrassing themselves, and potentially finding someone they can acquire now to flip for a better price later

I think it's about not embarrassing themselves, and potentially finding someone they can acquire now to flip for a better price later
- sensarmy_11

I think it's the bolded factor more than the latter one, unfortunately. I'd love to think that they have the foresight to consider both, but really see them just trying to save face here.

I think it's about not embarrassing themselves, and potentially finding someone they can acquire now to flip for a better price later
- sensarmy_11

Completely agree. There's little risk of Baertschi or Goldobin radically affecting the final standings of the team. From what I can tell, they're looking for a low-risk forward option to contribute on the 2nd/3rd line, with maybe a bit of PP flare. Personally, I would go after Baertschi, who at least has an established track record of 15G-20G level production. He is set to make $3.3M AAV over the next 2 seasons, but Melnyk & Dorion will love that he's already been paid his $1M signing bonus for the year, and is only due $2.7M/$2.4M of real dollars for the remainder of his contract.

I think it's the bolded factor more than the latter one, unfortunately. I'd love to think that they have the foresight to consider both, but really see them just trying to save face here.
- Michael_Stuart

I really don't think anyone they acquire will be expected to help them win games, more help keep it respectable......so rather than have to plug people like sabourin or boedker into the top 6 or top 9 to cover injuries, they have capable NHLers who can push those plugs right out of the lineup entirely.

it's fine to get kids playing time, but if it's in an environment where the team just gets embarrassed every night, rather than being somewhat respectable, it's not an ideal environment to develop in

I'm looking at Tyler Tiffoli in LA.

4.5M this season, pending UFA, underachieved the last two seasons. L.A. is not winning the cup anytime soon and may be willing to give him up for a pick and prospect. His stats this season are mediocre, but if they dip he could be available.

So who on the Canucks roster do you think they should be ahead of at the moment? If the mgmt is making a bad move keeping them on the farm club?

It's like you believe the Canucks would be better off with them up with the big club...

So who on the Canucks roster do you think they should be ahead of at the moment? If the mgmt is making a bad move keeping them on the farm club?

It's like you believe the Canucks would be better off with them up with the big club...
- kaptaan

Yes

Yes
- Michael_Stuart

So who should they replace? Where do you think they would fit in the Canucks lineup?

Yes
- Michael_Stuart

Goldy and Baer don't PK or play sound defensive hockey, so having them over Schaller or Beags (who is also a center and is currently 4th in FO percentage) on the 4th best PK this young season isn't that logical.

Both Goldy and Baer need top 6 roles, and that wasn't going to fly in Vancouver this year. Baer is better than Goldy defensively, and can play third line, but coming off a big concussion last year he didn't beat anyone out for a top 6/9 role.

Would be happy to trade one of them to Ottawa for a sound return, or basically nothing if you take Loui as well.

I don't disagree, but all signs point to them trying to make a deal regardless.
- Michael_Stuart

JP Pageau to Buffalo for
Okposo, Larsson & Girgenson, Buffalo retains 1 Mill per year.
Solid line that is plays hard.

Another option is Bobby Ryan and Ottawa retains 1 Mill per year for the same.

Goldy and Baer don't PK or play sound defensive hockey, so having them over Schaller or Beags (who is also a center and is currently 4th in FO percentage) on the 4th best PK this young season isn't that logical.

Both Goldy and Baer need top 6 roles, and that wasn't going to fly in Vancouver this year. Baer is better than Goldy defensively, and can play third line, but coming off a big concussion last year he didn't beat anyone out for a top 6/9 role.

Would be happy to trade one of them to Ottawa for a sound return, or basically nothing if you take Loui as well.
- NewYorkNuck

Virtanen, Ferland (I understand why this one will never happen...), and Sutter are guys who really haven't brought much this year.

I'm a big believer in getting rid of the top six/bottom six role idea. There's nothing stopping a team from trying to score goals with each of its lines.

Virtanen, Ferland (I understand why this one will never happen...), and Sutter are guys who really haven't brought much this year.

I'm a big believer in getting rid of the top six/bottom six role idea. There's nothing stopping a team from trying to score goals with each of its lines.
- Michael_Stuart

Yes, but they sent them down at the start of the year. Of course you want scoring from all four lines, but you can't have non-physical, perimeter players on them all. Sutter has 5 points in 9 games, which is great production for him, and PKs and is a center, and for the most part looked good through 9 games. Virtanen is an enigma with potential but would never make it through waivers, and Ferland they just signed and with his preseason flu he's a step behind.

Goldy and Baer are making great cases down there, but they're not going to get their chance until injuries or trades happen. We were actually all shocked when Baer went down, as he's a useful player, but he cleared waivers so not many teams thought highly of him.

JP Pageau to Buffalo for
Okposo, Larsson & Girgenson, Buffalo retains 1 Mill per year.
Solid line that is plays hard.

Another option is Bobby Ryan and Ottawa retains 1 Mill per year for the same.
- Tragically Buffalo

buffalo could retain 50% of the okposo deal and that's still a terrible deal for Ottawa.

as for the ryan deal...hard pass also. ryan makes a bit more, but he's signed for 1 year less..........i'd rather have ryan for 2 more years at 7.25 than okposo for 3 more at 6

Virtanen, Ferland (I understand why this one will never happen...), and Sutter are guys who really haven't brought much this year.

I'm a big believer in getting rid of the top six/bottom six role idea. There's nothing stopping a team from trying to score goals with each of its lines.
- Michael_Stuart

Ferland is better than the rest of those guys. Baer > JV. Sutter brings more to the party in terms of pk, faceoffs and is a useful center.

I'd just as soon see JV traded.

Completely agree. There's little risk of Baertschi or Goldobin radically affecting the final standings of the team. From what I can tell, they're looking for a low-risk forward option to contribute on the 2nd/3rd line, with maybe a bit of PP flare. Personally, I would go after Baertschi, who at least has an established track record of 15G-20G level production. He is set to make $3.3M AAV over the next 2 seasons, but Melnyk & Dorion will love that he's already been paid his $1M signing bonus for the year, and is only due $2.7M/$2.4M of real dollars for the remainder of his contract.
- khawk

With Bae it’s all about staying healthy

When you look at the prospects that the Sens have, they need to hit on some of these young guys. There are some high rated prospects that the franchise needs to be patient with, but turn into SOLID players:

2015 NHL Draft
1. Thomas Chabot - 17th overall
1. Colin White - 21st overall
2. Filip Chlapik - 48th overall
4. Christian Wolanin - 107th overall

2016 NHL Draft
1 - Logan Brown - 11th pick
2 - Filip Gustavsson - 55th pick
3 - Vitaly Abramov - 65th pick
5 - Max Lajoie - 133rd pick

2017 NHL Draft
1 - Erik Brannstrom - 15th pick
1 - Josh Norris - 19th pick
2 - Alex Formenton - 47th pick
4 - Drake Batherson - 121st pick

2018 NHL Draft
1 - Brady Tkachuk - 4th pick
1 - Jacob Bernard-Docker - 26th pick
2 - Jonny Tychonick - 48th pick
4 - Jonathan Gruden - 95th pick

2019 NHL Draft
1 - Lassi Thomson - 19th pick
2 - Shane Pinto - 32rd pick
2 - Mads Sogaard - 37th pick

2020 NHL Draft
1 - top 5 pick
1 - pick 10-22

I'm a big believer in getting rid of the top six/bottom six role idea. There's nothing stopping a team from trying to score goals with each of its lines.
- Michael_Stuart

In principle I agree, but I'm not sure that works out so well in a salary cap environment. To be competitive, you need to have two productive scoring lines and two quality defensive pairings, and to sustain that will drain most of your cap. The concept of the bottom-six role is to absorb tough defensive minutes and PK time away from your skilled players, and have a fringe line of affordable depth that you can trust not to lose the game while giving the other lines a breather. Having mediocre skill players on a 3rd/4th line isn't necessarily a better idea, if it means the team's best players have to compensate with defensive responsibilities, and reduce their offensive effectiveness.

That said, some teams spend far too much on their depth forwards. There's absolutely value in having a quality 3rd line centre who can play up and down the lineup (eg. Pageau, Tierney, or White), but when guys like Smith and Greening start getting $2.5M/yr or more then you know you're just paying too much for depth forwards. Similarly, why the Canucks are happy to pay Beagle $3M/yr to play 11min/GP on the 4th line is beyond me, but they've got another ~3 seasons of that to look forward to.