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Forums :: Blog World :: James Tanner: Coyotes and Islanders Share Many Similarities
Author Message
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 1:01 PM ET
James Tanner: Coyotes and Islanders Share Many Similarities
Upstate_isles
New York Islanders
Location: Bitch Lasagna , NY
Joined: 05.12.2016

Nov 15 @ 1:23 PM ET
Greiss has been great 3 out of the last 4 years. The isles give team shots from the outside and dont give up tons of high danger chances. Other team players have said they are very tough to play against and give you nothing. Clearly you know more than the players, coaches and gms in the league. The isles did this last year over 82 games and so far through 16 this year, it seems it is repeatable. This is from friedmans 31 thoughts

One coach told me his team’s internal metrics indicate that no one spends more time in their own zone than the red-hot New York Islanders. He wondered how that was possible, so he took a look. Answer: “They let you go where they want you to go — on the outside.” You get time, but you don’t get quality.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 1:32 PM ET
Greiss has been great 3 out of the last 4 years. The isles give team shots from the outside and dont give up tons of high danger chances. Other team players have said they are very tough to play against and give you nothing. Clearly you know more than the players, coaches and gms in the league. The isles did this last year over 82 games and so far through 16 this year, it seems it is repeatable. This is from friedmans 31 thoughts

One coach told me his team’s internal metrics indicate that no one spends more time in their own zone than the red-hot New York Islanders. He wondered how that was possible, so he took a look. Answer: “They let you go where they want you to go — on the outside.” You get time, but you don’t get quality.

- Upstate_isles



While I admit a 96 game sample size is getting quite big, I also don't believe the probability that this could just be an unusually long lucky streak is zero.

I don't really care whether I turn out to be right or wrong, but I would not bet on this continuing.

Greiss can still be a good goalie and not the best goalie of all time. I just don't think it's likely that the Islanders - and to a lesser extent the Coyotes, who I clearly cheer for - can maintain this.

I suppose it is possible, I just thin it's highly unlikely.

Take the game against the Leafs on Tuesday - the Islander went 15 minutes without a shot, and the Leafs PP has been brutal (and was that game too) and Andersen let in several weak goals.

Even accounting for your theory, they still only won because the Leafs beat themselves. Not saying that is going to be the case in every game they play, but we do know that goalies don't typically save 94% of shots over any kind of extended sample .
kasperrko
New York Islanders
Location: Spring Hill, FL
Joined: 03.09.2007

Nov 15 @ 1:41 PM ET
Just proves corsi numbers mean nothing. To me it’s dumb and irrelevant just play the games and see who wins really is t that hard.
Upstate_isles
New York Islanders
Location: Bitch Lasagna , NY
Joined: 05.12.2016

Nov 15 @ 1:45 PM ET
While I admit a 96 game sample size is getting quite big, I also don't believe the probability that this could just be an unusually long lucky streak is zero.

I don't really care whether I turn out to be right or wrong, but I would not bet on this continuing.

Greiss can still be a good goalie and not the best goalie of all time. I just don't think it's likely that the Islanders - and to a lesser extent the Coyotes, who I clearly cheer for - can maintain this.

I suppose it is possible, I just thin it's highly unlikely.

Take the game against the Leafs on Tuesday - the Islander went 15 minutes without a shot, and the Leafs PP has been brutal (and was that game too) and Andersen let in several weak goals.

Even accounting for your theory, they still only won because the Leafs beat themselves. Not saying that is going to be the case in every game they play, but we do know that goalies don't typically save 94% of shots over any kind of extended sample .

- James_Tanner

They didnt play particularly well vs the leafs either and still won, they limit teams and capitalize on their chances. Also of note their power play is much better this year as it was brutal last year. They are a heavy team that is physical and miserable to play against, you hear it time and again from their opponents.
uofcguy
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.18.2019

Nov 15 @ 2:08 PM ET
Hmm, is it possible that a very disciplined and well-coached team might limit dangerous chances and instead be willing to give up routine shots. Thus making goalies "look good" . Anyone who actually watches NYI regularly would notice that their defensive game is very structured. D-men are conservative. They don't pinch and give up many odd-man rushes. Their F3 plays deeper than many other teams. Typical Trotz style. It's not that exciting. Lots of 2-1 and 3-2 games. But it's effective. They don't care about Corsi. They care about wins. And the style makes the job easier for a goalie. Put Greiss on a team like say the Oilers last year and he'd look below-average. But playing this style helps him look good. The irony is Arizona, the team you cover, shares many of the same characteristics. But you're obsessed with Kuemper and Raanta being the greatest goalies on earth, when they are helped by the sound defensive system that the Coyotes have bought into, by the coach who you think should be fired. More irony there. Maybe watch 1,000 more games. Get your coaching certification. Then some of these things might be easier to see. Or keep focussing on Corsi. Whatever floats your boat.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Nov 15 @ 2:31 PM ET
Coyotes and Isles do have something in common both were chosen by you to miss the playoffs and both are currently in the playoffs
AxlRose91
Joined: 09.24.2013

Nov 15 @ 2:34 PM ET
Isles fans. Settle down. Don’t take the bait. Fight the urge to take the bait people!!
doublechili
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.17.2019

Nov 15 @ 3:25 PM ET
James, why do you accept the current state of numerical analysis in hockey as a settled thing? Open your mind. You're missing something really big that current analysis doesn't take into account (and that Trotz and septuagenarian Lou have figured out). It's the answer to all your questions, Grasshopper.
Tedge77
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.17.2019

Nov 15 @ 4:00 PM ET
You share many similarities with the author and a D. I C K
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 4:19 PM ET
Just proves corsi numbers mean nothing. To me it’s dumb and irrelevant just play the games and see who wins really is t that hard.
- kasperrko



But it's not just corsi numbers, there are so many other things that make their success unexplained. That said, I think if people just want to ignore all that stuff and enjoy the ride, nothing wrong with that.

James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 4:23 PM ET
James, why do you accept the current state of numerical analysis in hockey as a settled thing? Open your mind. You're missing something really big that current analysis doesn't take into account (and that Trotz and septuagenarian Lou have figured out). It's the answer to all your questions, Grasshopper.
- doublechili



I don't take it as a settle debate, and I'm also completely open to the fact that both teams could make the playoffs.

But let's put a few things in perspective.

No one wins ten in a row without mad lucky breaks. Even the best team of all time should lose a minimum of 3 out of ten.

- they don't have a very good roster

- career back up goalie posting insane stats

- there is no history of any any goalie doing .940 - Hasek's two best years were 932 and .937 in two of the lowest scoring years on recent record.

- They aren't the NHL's second best team.

So lots of weird stuff is happening, and history tells us it won't last forever. The Islanders are more than likely closer to their Corsi rating than their save percentage, but time will tell.
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 4:24 PM ET
You share many similarities with the author and a D. I C K
- Tedge77



I am the author!
uofcguy
Calgary Flames
Joined: 03.18.2019

Nov 15 @ 4:50 PM ET
Looks like another Bill Meltzer moment...
TB4LIH
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.21.2019

Nov 15 @ 5:00 PM ET
Honestly, all your posts hating on the isles is embarrassing. At some point maybe you might want to watch a few games to see what they are about? The game, despite what you believe, isn’t played on a piece of paper. It’s played on the ice. Your condescending writing really doesn’t hold water when you look at the fact they have done this for about 100 games now. Yes, they were very lucky to win 10 in a row. As you said, even the best of teams rarely do that. At some point however, you need to watch a few games to see what they are about. Your writing is getting tired and the fact that you have stated you will not change your opinion because of the numbers shows how little you actually understand the game being played on the ice.
Signed, an islander fan and former college hockey player who understands the game
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 11.30.2009

Nov 15 @ 5:05 PM ET
Andersen did not let in several weak goals vs the Isle...did you forget to watch the game again?
James Tanner
Joined: 12.21.2013

Nov 15 @ 5:06 PM ET
Honestly, all your posts hating on the isles is embarrassing. At some point maybe you might want to watch a few games to see what they are about? The game, despite what you believe, isn’t played on a piece of paper. It’s played on the ice. Your condescending writing really doesn’t hold water when you look at the fact they have done this for about 100 games now. Yes, they were very lucky to win 10 in a row. As you said, even the best of teams rarely do that. At some point however, you need to watch a few games to see what they are about. Your writing is getting tired and the fact that you have stated you will not change your opinion because of the numbers shows how little you actually understand the game being played on the ice.
Signed, an islander fan and former college hockey player who understands the game

- TB4LIH



Why is it that people call any kind of analysis they don't like "hating" and why do they then tell you to watch the games as if you couldn't possibly disagree with them without there being something wrong with you.

Hate to break it to you dude, but I'm more informed than you are and time will prove me right.
TB4LIH
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.21.2019

Nov 15 @ 5:10 PM ET
Why is it that people call any kind of analysis they don't like "hating" and why do they then tell you to watch the games as if you couldn't possibly disagree with them without there being something wrong with you.

Hate to break it to you dude, but I'm more informed than you are and time will prove me right.

- James_Tanner

Sorry dude, but you can’t actually argue against that point because you haven’t watched a game. Its amazing that you can make such a sweeping statement based on numbers alone without watching, but to each his own. I guess it’s my bad for taking the bait. Looking at your comments section, a large percentage of the very few comments you get are from isles fans. Nobody else will read your garbage writing so i guess in your eyes it’s better to get some negative comments than none at all. Don’t worry James, I’m sure you’ll get better...
TB4LIH
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.21.2019

Nov 15 @ 5:14 PM ET
Andersen did not let in several weak goals vs the Isle...did you forget to watch the game again?
- Garnie

He’s forgotten to watch for a while. Still thinks he is the foremost authority on them. Just ask him, he’ll tell you himself. And time will tell, he is correct. Just wait for it.....
Sign guy
New York Islanders
Location: Bay shore, NY
Joined: 11.05.2017

Nov 15 @ 5:20 PM ET
Let’s get real Islanders have best GM, Coach, Goaltending Coach, Owners in Scott Malkin/ Jon Ledecky and most loyal and passionate fans in Hockey. Oh and by the way the Best team in all of New York 😜
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 11.30.2009

Nov 15 @ 5:33 PM ET
He’s forgotten to watch for a while. Still thinks he is the foremost authority on them. Just ask him, he’ll tell you himself. And time will tell, he is correct. Just wait for it.....
- TB4LIH

Just another one of the millions of Scotty Bowmans...
Tannerisanidiot
Joined: 11.14.2016

Nov 15 @ 5:37 PM ET
Why is it that people call any kind of analysis they don't like "hating" and why do they then tell you to watch the games as if you couldn't possibly disagree with them without there being something wrong with you.

Hate to break it to you dude, but I'm more informed than you are and time will prove me right.

- James_Tanner



My left nut is more informed about hockey than you are. Once again how much time do you think you get to “prove yourself” right. Corsi this, Corsi that, shut up and listen to the people who are trying to make you sound less stupid. Just because you’re the loudest idiot in the room doesn’t make you smart or informed.
Tedge77
New York Islanders
Joined: 02.17.2019

Nov 15 @ 5:38 PM ET
I am the author!
- James_Tanner

I know
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 15 @ 5:45 PM ET
I'm experienceing deja vue

"There's no way that Robin Lehner can keep this up all season".
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Nov 15 @ 5:48 PM ET
Why is it that people call any kind of analysis they don't like "hating" and why do they then tell you to watch the games as if you couldn't possibly disagree with them without there being something wrong with you.


- James_Tanner


This posted from someone who routinely insults those personally who disagree with him.
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