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Forums :: Blog World :: Tyler Cameron: Blackhawks have forgettable weekend
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Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Dec 2 @ 5:51 PM ET
There’s no doubt that team defense have let the goalies down, but last game Lehner also let in a couple that he should have had, then he points fingers. He’s the new kid on the block, a little early to point fingers in my book, but that’s just my honest opinion. I’m betting that calling out when coming off the ice did not go well in the room, there’s a place and time for that, that was not it.
- Angotti


I didn't have a problem with Lehner calling the team out. Someone had to. If you look at Lehner play overall he has been outstanding I'll give him a 1 game pass. Not to mention the game before the team hung Crawford out. Plus this team if it wasn't for both goalies playing lights out Chicago's record would be horrendous.

But I see your point
jrsamu
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 11.07.2014

Dec 2 @ 5:54 PM ET
Nobody knew Toews was going to struggle this badly as he got older. I understand the frustration of the fanbase, but the guy has played hard minutes over the years, and I really do wonder how much is left in the tank. You throw in basically 2 seasons of playoff hockey as well. Toews played a style where he was not afraid to go into high contact areas, plus he went head to head a lot of times against the other teams' top centers in the postseason after Bolland was traded to Toronto. He is not earning his keep there is no doubt about that, but the contributions he made to this organization were never from a lack of effort. He has been the heart and soul of this team since he started playing for the Hawks. I don't think Toews ever should be measured by points, but by his all-around game and leadership. Hate when people dog the Captain because he has done a ton for the organization, and I also firmly believe that his game not being the same anymore is more of a result of not having much left in the tank, and his body is just about shot from playing so hard for so long.
- ChicagoHope


Actually I think it was pretty predictable that Toews would wear down. The team has continued to go smaller since 2010, which necessarily put more wear and tear on the few guys who would step into the tough spaces. For some time, Toews and Shaw were the only players spending time in the crease during the 2nd and 3rd cups (save for some Bryan Bickell, until his health issues came to light) and most of the time in between and after.

Same with Seabrook. And Keith. The defense I put squarely on Stan (and Tallon) - they brought zero to the party after Hjalmarsson from inside the organization. Zero. It was just a matter of time before this broke down.

Some of it is the cap. Some is bad contracts. There is a lot of mileage on those skates. And that is before we talk about Olympics, etc.

Even with his faults, Toews is easily the best center on this team by a wide margin. Unfortunately, he can't deliver close to $!0.5 million per if he is not scoring.
mohel
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 02.08.2013

Dec 2 @ 5:57 PM ET
True but that would also require multiple players coming down with the flu. So over the next few days we either see a rash of players getting sick, which in an odd way would be good because I rather not have Lehner regress and I love for him to be a long term CBH

Or..

- gifman


Or, he will be the only one to get sick. It happens. Suggesting a guy with substance abuse issues tied one on, based on this is real weak sauce. Real weak.
bhawks2241
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago, IL
Joined: 09.17.2013

Dec 2 @ 6:07 PM ET
Other elite centers have played for just as long and in just as many playoff games and yet they remain elite. Crosby and Bergeron come to mind. So does Backstrom. Even Kopitar still plays like a legit 1C and is currently producing at a PPG rate.
- SimpleJack


Thank you. Toews looks light in the pants. I don't think it is an injury issue. He has been on record as saying he wanted to be lighter and quicker/faster.

Despite this I still see him trying to play the same style that made him so successful. The problem is he isn't nearly as strong on his skates. He loses the one on one battles he used to win. He can't maintain position down low with the puck because he simply gets pushed out of the way. He also can't over power guys on D or on the backcheck. Instead of rubbing guys off the puck you see Toews lose the one on one battle and then resort to hooking/slashing from behind. Which has led to a lot of bad penalties this year by Toews.

I am certainly no expert but I have also watched him try several power moves to the net the last few games. Opposing d-men just push him to the outside and Toews either loses the puck or is forced to go down behind the net. I don't see the ability to simply bull rush through opposing players anymore.
SimpleJack
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Chicago , IL
Joined: 05.23.2013

Dec 2 @ 6:07 PM ET
So wrong. Penguins won their Cups how many years apart? And they weren't close in between. Preds have 0 Cups and will be screwed shortly. Sharks? You're kidding, right? Bruins are the closest, but have won just once.

Regarding the GM....."I don't know, but anybody is better than this" is just a temper tantrum of a spoiled fan.

The best thing you said is it is time to move on. From the old vets, I say. They've been rebuilding for a few years now.

- mohel


How is it “so wrong” that the list of teams I gave you since 2013 have all remained perennial contenders? In what universe is that “so wrong”? They’ve all made it to at least one SCF, constantly make the post season(unlike the Hawks), often advance past the 1st round, and obviously have much better win%s than we do.

Our front office did a great job after 2010 building us a contender again in 2013, but since the 2014/15 season it’s been all downhill with the decision making and roster construction.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 6:22 PM ET
No I think you read that wrong lol. Chunk was saying he is our best center I merely said I respect his knowledge and opinion but as of right now and for quite some time, toews hasn't played as a number 1 or elite center based on his performance and numbers.
- Taylorst1


OK, even if we grant you that he hasn't played at an elite level this year, how does benching our best center give us the best chance to win, and again, who do you play in his place?

Someone apologize to Breadman for my horrible run-on sentence.
rpeters01
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 07.09.2016

Dec 2 @ 6:23 PM ET
Tallon hasn’t been affiliated with the organization in over a decade.

Stan has had ample time to piece together a competitive roster. I’d wager he’s one of the longest tenured GM’s in the league at this point. He got to see this organization through the ups, and since 2015 has seen this team continuously spiral down. Why does he get to rebuild this organization from the ground up?

When any organization (in any industry) completely plummets, to the heads get to stay to turn the company around?

Stan, Colliton, McD...doesn’t matter.

The team is stale.
The leadership has waned.
We’re still attempting to cling on to past glory.

Let’s call a spade a spade. This team - top to bottom - isn’t competitive enough.

The foundation is there. Build off of it.

Time for Rocky to step in and turn the franchise around. And it’s been overdue.

- TommyHawk

If all that were true, that easy, it wouldn't take Edmonton and Buffalo 10 years and the Wings have still not come close to turning it around five years and counting. The clock doesn't even start until Toews, Kane, Seabrook and Keith are gone.
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Dec 2 @ 6:28 PM ET
OK, even if we grant you that he hasn't played at an elite level this year, how does benching our best center give us the best chance to win, and again, who do you play in his place?

Someone apologize to Breadman for my horrible run-on sentence.

- Chunk




bogiedoc
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: VA
Joined: 09.27.2011

Dec 2 @ 6:31 PM ET
Other elite centers have played for just as long and in just as many playoff games and yet they remain elite. Crosby and Bergeron come to mind. So does Backstrom. Even Kopitar still plays like a legit 1C and is currently producing at a PPG rate.
- SimpleJack


I guess you kinda forgot those two down years in the last 4 kopitar had.
Bergeron has never had a pt/gm years...he been in 60's most of his career
backstrom had more than 23 goals only once (his 2nd year with 33); he is an assist machine for ovie

these are all different types of players...toews goal scoring is once again down but he has 13 assists...i don't think toews is done...but for what ever reason something seems out of sort physically with him the last 3 years...
Scott1977
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Yorkville, IL
Joined: 08.30.2012

Dec 2 @ 6:33 PM ET
So, the scouting staff sux, too? The whole front office has to go! Pretty much the whole front office has been around through the last 10 years, but let's toss them aside for a guy who hasn't won squat and got fired elsewhere. My goodness.
- mohel

I m saying a fresh set eyes and new outlook would be nice and probably for the best. If a new gm comes he is going to want his own scouring staff. If it happens time we will see but hawks don't make the playoffs then its time for change.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Dec 2 @ 6:34 PM ET
He is. It on vacation. Bowman cannot jump each instance of losses or poor play..

I feel like some veterans went over Bowman and Colliton because they were concerned how well they could perform.in Colliton's system.

Bowman made sound off season moves. He cannot fix each problem right away. We loose to speed teams. The 2020 draft hopefully provides a future too center. Bowman"s past salary overpayment to Seabrook and his + Toews slippage in performance is not easily remidied. You have to accept that the Bowman's ledger has both good and bad moves. And Bowman has tried to keep the team"s core players here. In the next two years you will see the need to be fine with both Seabrook a d Toews gains momentum. The best approach to get a team back in playoffs is to draft well and develop well.

Now in two years you might have a case to replace both Colliton and Bowman. The team will be in a position to possibly take a step forward. And Bowman needs to have enough toughness on the roster. This Bowman/Colliton system can be argued but the fairest evaluation is to have the type of players to make it work. Enough other teams use a version if it. We however had unfit top players (DeBrincat/Strome) and a bad defense. Moreover two b*tches worried about how well they can look and if they stay lineup

How much better would any other coach do. Stay positive. Follow AEL_FOX reports. We have drafted well

- jhawk59


Getting Matta and de Haan when you already have Seabrook and Gus is not sound roster building. CooCoo is useless.

Not enough speed and skill for today's NHL. That is obvious. They would have been better served with some AHL place holders while waiting for Mitchell and Boqvist.

This teams problems are on the blue line first and foremost and second on their coach for not sitting 5 guys in the middle of the park and trying to play fast with what they have.

Strome is a solid 2C and has played much better in his zone this year and his skating has improved dramatically. El gato is quite good as well. You dont suck and score 69 goals your first two years.

The NHL in general is pretty terrible. Aside from a few teams that have some young dynamic talent its a whole lot of meh. A bit more speed on the back side to retrieve pucks and push the play and this team improves dramatically.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 6:38 PM ET
How is it “so wrong” that the list of teams I gave you since 2013 have all remained perennial contenders? In what universe is that “so wrong”? They’ve all made it to at least one SCF, constantly make the post season(unlike the Hawks), often advance past the 1st round, and obviously have much better win%s than we do.

Our front office did a great job after 2010 building us a contender again in 2013, but since the 2014/15 season it’s been all downhill with the decision making and roster construction.

- SimpleJack


Hyperbole. The two competing arguments are: 1) Stan hasn't done anything positive in the last 4-5 years. 2) Stan was justified in gutting our assets in order to go for it every year (Vermette for a 1st), Timo for 2 2nds - I still don't get this one, etc.

Stan has done really well in some instances and poorly in others - just like every GM. My only real gripe with him is that he seems to be chasing things when he makes moves and either over compensates (i.e. de Haan AND Maata) or expects too much out of an unproven commodity (Kahun, Kubalik). most of these players are good in their own right, but either can't play to their slotting, or have now overcrowded the position with average players.

I actually think they have drafted pretty well recently. They just haven't held onto a lot of the good ones (Teuvo, Schmaltz, Joki, Hino). I'd like for there to be a more apparent direction for the team (this includes the structure of the team on the ice), but honestly, how often does that happen. I think most fans are just happy when the team does well, and torches/pitchforks when they are bad.
Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Dec 2 @ 6:39 PM ET
OK, even if we grant you that he hasn't played at an elite level this year, how does benching our best center give us the best chance to win, and again, who do you play in his place?

Someone apologize to Breadman for my horrible run-on sentence.

- Chunk


That's fair on your part. But his play has regressed since 2015, last year IMO his numbers where the best since but look at whom he skated with Kane. Kane I think we can all agree will make a lot of players look better and even by them playing alongside tend to benefit numbers wise.

If toews isn't producing , it's the coaches job even if that means benching him to send a message. Having him in the lineup but not producing to the level needed doesn't at this point help the team.

You can move strome up
Dach 2nd
Kampf 3rd
Carpenter 4
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 6:41 PM ET



- I Am The Breadman


I normally don't care much until I see catch myself doing it and I am so OCD that I can't let it go.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Dec 2 @ 6:46 PM ET
I guess you kinda forgot those two down years in the last 4 kopitar had.
Bergeron has never had a pt/gm years...he been in 60's most of his career
backstrom had more than 23 goals only once (his 2nd year with 33); he is an assist machine for ovie

these are all different types of players...toews goal scoring is once again down but he has 13 assists...i don't think toews is done...but for what ever reason something seems out of sort physically with him the last 3 years...

- bogiedoc


Only Kopitar makes comparable money
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Dec 2 @ 6:49 PM ET
I normally don't care much until I see catch myself doing it and I am so OCD that I can't let it go.
- Chunk


In the field of English, I'm the most relaxed. I let a lot go because I'm the typo master. I don't call people out, unless I know the person can take a joke. This isn't the place to correct people anyways. I come here STRICTLY for the sessions on taxes and racism.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 6:59 PM ET
That's fair on your part. But his play has regressed since 2015, last year IMO his numbers where the best since but look at whom he skated with Kane. Kane I think we can all agree will make a lot of players look better and even by them playing alongside tend to benefit numbers wise.

If toews isn't producing , it's the coaches job even if that means benching him to send a message. Having him in the lineup but not producing to the level needed doesn't at this point help the team.

You can move strome up
Dach 2nd
Kampf 3rd
Carpenter 4

- Taylorst1


And IMO, you would get crushed every time you did that. Toews overall points are down right now. His shots are on track to be the 3rd highest of his career, but his shooting % is 6% (his career average is almost 14%). You've got two players that are close to their career averages (Saad and Kane). No one on this team has played consistently well. I don't see how scratching your 1C helps him or the team. What message does it send? That if you have a poor shooting percentage, you wont' play? Did everyone start playing markedly better D when Seabrook got benched? No, they slapped a bad kings team and got embarrassed by NSH.

I know people want this team to win. So do I. We all have to simply realize that regardless of who the Core is (don't get me started on that concept again) this team is not very good. You can see it even when they win/"play well". They do not have the ability to lock down an opponent. They do not have the ability to put their three best players on a line and take over a game. If they get good goaltending and play like they did against EDM, they will win their share and challenge for a PO spot. Outside of that, get ready for a lot of "hope to win" games this year.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 7:04 PM ET
In the field of English, I'm the most relaxed. I let a lot go because I'm the typo master. I don't call people out, unless I know the person can take a joke. This isn't the place to correct people anyways. I come here STRICTLY for the sessions on taxes and racism.
- I Am The Breadman


Nonsense. You get to talk about movies and music. You get told what being a "real" fan entails. Best of all, you get to learn Canadian and American put downs (although I personally think that the Canadians just add and "eh" to the end of American put downs). Well rounded ejukashun there.
I Am The Breadman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Richton Park, IL
Joined: 09.16.2018

Dec 2 @ 7:07 PM ET
Nonsense. You get to talk about movies and music. You get told what being a "real" fan entails. Best of all, you get to learn Canadian and American put downs (although I personally think that the Canadians just add and "eh" to the end of American put downs). Well rounded ejukashun there.
- Chunk


Hahahahaha!! You got that right, you hoser!
Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Dec 2 @ 7:08 PM ET
And IMO, you would get crushed every time you did that. Toews overall points are down right now. His shots are on track to be the 3rd highest of his career, but his shooting % is 6% (his career average is almost 14%). You've got two players that are close to their career averages (Saad and Kane). No one on this team has played consistently well. I don't see how scratching your 1C helps him or the team. What message does it send? That if you have a poor shooting percentage, you wont' play? Did everyone start playing markedly better D when Seabrook got benched? No, they slapped a bad kings team and got embarrassed by NSH.

I know people want this team to win. So do I. We all have to simply realize that regardless of who the Core is (don't get me started on that concept again) this team is not very good. You can see it even when they win/"play well". They do not have the ability to lock down an opponent. They do not have the ability to put thei
r three best players on a line and take over a game. If they get good goaltending and play like they did against EDM, they will win their share and challenge for a PO spot. Outside of that, get ready for a lot of "hope to win" games this year.

- Chunk


I won't disagree that the team as a whole are lackluster.
But You can't simply bench say a Nylander or saad etc and not do the same for toews who's numbers are equally as bad.

Also IMO if your worried about benching toews because your next best center isn't in your words as strong and the best thing to do is settle , that's no way to run a hockey team.



Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Dec 2 @ 7:10 PM ET
Or, he will be the only one to get sick. It happens. Suggesting a guy with substance abuse issues tied one on, based on this is real weak sauce. Real weak.
- mohel

Just to be clear, that’s not where I’m going, speculating that an addict tied one on is not cool. What he did on his way off the ice was also not cool, if you want to call out your team, you do that in the locker room. What I will speculate is that the outburst probably did not go well in the room, whether the team deserved it or not.
Chunk
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Why did I move back here again?, IL
Joined: 11.06.2015

Dec 2 @ 7:28 PM ET
I won't disagree that the team as a whole are lackluster.
But You can't simply bench say a Nylander or saad etc and not do the same for toews who's numbers are equally as bad.

Also IMO if your worried about benching toews because your next best center isn't in your words as strong and the best thing to do is settle , that's no way to run a hockey team.

- Taylorst1


But, WHY was Nylander, or Kubalik , or anyone else benched? Unless you can show me otherwise in writing somewhere, every time Colliton has benched someone it was because of how they were playing away from the puck/defensively/not supporting/etc. He isn't benching guys for not producing points. If that was the case why not bench ADB? He just got a big contract for scoring a ton of goals and he has one more goal than Toews (and ADB with a 6.7 shooting %). And Toews is responsible for/brings a lot more than ADB does. Toews is a big part of the PK - which is better this year. He is the best a faceoffs (for whatever that is worth), etc.

My point is not that you shouldn't bench Toews. It is that you shouldn't bench him simply because his numbers are down. THAT is no way to run a hockey team. If Toews was doing something fundamentally wrong, or being disruptive to the team, then yeah, pine him. Otherwise, I ask again, what are you trying to achieve by benching him?

How many times would you have benched Sharp? He was as streaky as anyone.
gifman
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Gifland
Joined: 09.17.2015

Dec 2 @ 7:36 PM ET
Or, he will be the only one to get sick. It happens. Suggesting a guy with substance abuse issues tied one on, based on this is real weak sauce. Real weak.
- mohel



I never suggested he was on the sauce. My original post asked “the flue like symptoms “ is a phrase synonymous with drinking too much. It happened with the core several times and other sports as well. If I recall the first time I saw this was in reference to the Cubs players being out with flu like symptoms.

And no it’s not likely only one player gets the flu. It’s a contagion and spreads like wildfire.
Taylorst1
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 07.09.2018

Dec 2 @ 7:39 PM ET
But, WHY was Nylander, or Kubalik , or anyone else benched? Unless you can show me otherwise in writing somewhere, every time Colliton has benched someone it was because of how they were playing away from the puck/defensively/not supporting/etc. He isn't benching guys for not producing points. If that was the case why not bench ADB? He just got a big contract for scoring a ton of goals and he has one more goal than Toews (and ADB with a 6.7 shooting %). And Toews is responsible for/brings a lot more than ADB does. Toews is a big part of the PK - which is better this year. He is the best a faceoffs (for whatever that is worth), etc.

My point is not that you shouldn't bench Toews. It is that you shouldn't bench him simply because his numbers are down. THAT is no way to run a hockey team. If Toews was doing something fundamentally wrong, or being disruptive to the team, then yeah, pine him. Otherwise, I ask again, what are you trying to achieve by benching him?

How many times would you have benched Sharp? He was as streaky as anyone.

- Chunk



I agree quite a few of the hawks players need to ride the pine.
Toews play hasn't been that strong away from the puck lately and with the puck. But Chicago isn't just paying toews to play defense or take fac3offs they expect him to score and raise his teammates level of play . His chirping at the refs and foolish penalties are a sign of his frustrations and lack of focus.

A lot of people complained that coach Q allowed his core players yo much freedom and didn't get on them .

Benching toews will get the teams attention and his attention that's what is needed to wake these guys up.

I love your knowledge chunk I respect you.


Butcherboy66
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Thorold, ON
Joined: 03.30.2017

Dec 2 @ 7:40 PM ET
Tallon hasn’t been affiliated with the organization in over a decade.

Stan has had ample time to piece together a competitive roster. I’d wager he’s one of the longest tenured GM’s in the league at this point. He got to see this organization through the ups, and since 2015 has seen this team continuously spiral down. Why does he get to rebuild this organization from the ground up?

When any organization (in any industry) completely plummets, to the heads get to stay to turn the company around?

Stan, Colliton, McD...doesn’t matter.

The team is stale.
The leadership has waned.
We’re still attempting to cling on to past glory.

Let’s call a spade a spade. This team - top to bottom - isn’t competitive enough.

The foundation is there. Build off of it.

Time for Rocky to step in and turn the franchise around. And it’s been overdue.

- TommyHawk

yes..yes and yes.
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