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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Handle Florida, 6-2
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wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:29 AM ET
Judging a goalie by whether the team wins is only about 30 years out of date.

The team has a winning record when Ghost plays so I guess he's having a good season, too.

- Feanor



not on its own but you take the record and the eye test, Elliot has been solid, he has made momentum saves, sure he missed a few but what goalie has not. Fancy stats are fine but it is always better to rely on what you see. Not sure about the 30 years out of date comment, last I checked you get paid to win in hockey and everything else.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 14 @ 10:29 AM ET
Every goalie is different. Just because Binnington did it doesnt mean others can, how many rookie goalies lead their team to stanley cups? Not many

I will add that the the series with Bryz and Fleury, the emotion between the two was so high both goalies were overwhelmed and could make a save

- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Rookie goalies excelling in the playoffs is not as rare as you think.

1971: rookie Ken Dryden leads the Habs to the Cup

1986: rookie Patrick Roy does the same

1987: Ron Hextall wins the Smythe after getting the Flyers to game 7 in the finals

2000 Brian Boucher leads the Flyers to the conference final.

And more recently:

2006 Cam Ward with Carolina
2010 Niemi with Chicago
And, of course, Binnington last year.

Feanor
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: DE
Joined: 02.13.2013

Feb 14 @ 10:32 AM ET
not on its own but you take the record and the eye test, Elliot has been solid, he has made momentum saves, sure he missed a few but what goalie has not. Fancy stats are fine but it is always better to rely on what you see. Not sure about the 30 years out of date comment, last I checked you get paid to win in hockey and everything else.
- wcorvette


By that logic, Taylor Hall won't get paid much this summer because he played on two teams that aren't winning.

The level of denial in the face of clear statistical proof of the poor year Elliott is having, not just compared to other goalies but to his own previous seasons in Philly, is astonishing.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:33 AM ET
Rookie goalies excelling in the playoffs is not as rare as you think.

1971: rookie Ken Dryden leads the Habs to the Cup

1986: rookie Patrick Roy does the same

1987: Ron Hextall wins the Smythe after getting the Flyers to game 7 in the finals

2000 Brian Boucher leads the Flyers to the conference final.

And more recently:

2006 Cam Ward with Carolina
2010 Niemi with Chicago
And, of course, Binnington last year.

- BiggE


Add Felix Potvin going to OT Game 7 of the 1993 WCF. And not the most popular, but:

Martin Brodeur leading the Devils to 2OT of Game 7 of the ECF in 1994.
Matt Murray in 2016 (pre-rookie season) and 2017 (rookie season)
Sublime55
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.24.2012

Feb 14 @ 10:38 AM ET
If they play like this every night, I can’t complain. Win or lose I have no doubt they’ll show up again Tampa. The problem is, I think they’ll have their usual issues against Columbus when we need them to show up the most.
- SuperSchennBros


They’ve beaten some of the best teams on the road and they’ve played well in Tampa in recent trips even if they haven’t come out of there with the win, always. It’s interesting to see how Columbus responds without Jones but I like our chances.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:40 AM ET
Holtby is having a really rough season. Did you somehow miss the Flyers lighting him up on Saturday?

Goalie performance can vary by a huge amount year to year, and a big salary does nothing to prevent that.

- Feanor


I don't disagree.
Lexington Flyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NoHockeyTown , KY
Joined: 04.02.2008

Feb 14 @ 10:40 AM ET
Good to see you again, man.

How many are coming up from KY?

- wolfhounds


Wife, Kids, me. Pretty stoked to see a game in the Wells Fargo vs. the pens, in the playoff stretch.

Also just stoked to head to Philly. I grew up near Williamsport. My parents like the rural life so other than a few charter bus trips (to see a Phillies game in the Mike Schmitt/Steve Carleton/Tug era and I think a Sixers game at the Spectrum) we never went to Philly. My dad still calls the Schuylkill Expressway the "Surekill".

I got up there for some concerts at the Spectrum (or Camden) when I lived in the DC area but honestly have never explored the city. So we're going to see some historical stuff, see the game, and check out local flavors. I've already said the Italian Market is a mandatory stop. Pretty jazzed overall. Flyers better win
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:42 AM ET
If they play like this every night, I can’t complain. Win or lose I have no doubt they’ll show up again Tampa. The problem is, I think they’ll have their usual issues against Columbus when we need them to show up the most.
- SuperSchennBros


Columbus does always play them tough.

At the same time, the Flyers had been 1-5-0 in their last 6 games against Florida as of this past weekend.
missingmike
Joined: 07.08.2011

Feb 14 @ 10:47 AM ET
Bill,

To your inside knowledge are there any updates on Sanheim, Ghost statuses?

Thank you!
Sublime55
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.24.2012

Feb 14 @ 10:47 AM ET
Columbus does always play them tough.

At the same time, the Flyers had been 1-5-0 in their last 6 games against Florida as of this past weekend.

- jmatchett383


This team just looks more mentally prepared than recent teams. I’m not sure if it’s because of the new coaching staff, veteran additions, the Oskar and Patrick situations, going through the Hextall and Hak firings last year or a combination of these, but I don’t think playing on the road against a heavy hitter phases these guys.
Lexington Flyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NoHockeyTown , KY
Joined: 04.02.2008

Feb 14 @ 10:49 AM ET
Lexingtonflyer I am not far from you in Nashville. We have tickets to the game here when the flyers Come to visit. There are still some good seats available but you have to be local to buy them. There will be quite a few philly fans at the game. You should consider bringing the kids to this one as well.
In my opinion Nashville has THE BEST crowd and best atmosphere out of any arena I have been to. Its very kid friendly as well

- sILKAsSINASALO


I love Nashville and Bridgestone is a sweet arena for a game. My oldest son and I went down there two or three years ago for a game (maybe a bit longer than that...Weber was still with the Preds). We had a blast except the Flyers lost.

We've done a whole lot of games (mostly losses) in Columbus. We were there in Spring 2018 when the flyers broke that long streak (12 years?) of not winning in Columbus. That was cool.

I'd try and come down for that Nashville game but it is tough schedule-wise and damn if we didn't drop some coin on the upcoming Philly trip. Wells Fargo is a little pricier, even in the upper level, than Columbus or Nashville.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:50 AM ET
Zatkoff played the first 2, then Murray took over the rest of the way except for Game 5of the ECF.

So no, Murray did not play any significant role in the 2016 Cup, and Zatkoff only played 2 games. He only got those 2 starts because Brayden Schenn injured Murray late in the season.

- jmatchett383


I never said he didnt. I said he never started. What I am arguing is Hart should sit for the first game and just the first game to take in the atmosphere which is similar to Murray. Any playoff win is a significant role. Hart could be fine and I could be worrying to much but the playoffs are completely different then the regular season and starting off on the road against a team like WSH or BOS is gonna be tough and unforgiving.
Lexington Flyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NoHockeyTown , KY
Joined: 04.02.2008

Feb 14 @ 10:50 AM ET
Passyunk is a great area. Lots of restaurants and you can walk to the Broad Street subway that will drop you off right at the stadium. And it’s a great experience to ride the train to the stadium. It’s a sea of orange.
- mkabbeko



We're leaning towards an Air BnB in Passyunk square area. Looking forward to the train ride. Thanks for the tip!
Lexington Flyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NoHockeyTown , KY
Joined: 04.02.2008

Feb 14 @ 10:51 AM ET
Quenneville and Bobrovsky are slugs! Oh baby! Whewwww!
- PLindbergh31


They Chased Bob. After all the losses I witnessed live in Columbus, I liked seeing that.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:53 AM ET
By that logic, Taylor Hall won't get paid much this summer because he played on two teams that aren't winning.

The level of denial in the face of clear statistical proof of the poor year Elliott is having, not just compared to other goalies but to his own previous seasons in Philly, is astonishing.

- Feanor



your absolute lean on stats over the eye test is amazing. Save % or expected save % is great but when a goalie comes up with a save at the right time of the game and the team responds that is more important, in my opinion. Elliot has done a solid job for a backup.

Taylor Hall will get paid based upon how he performed, that will include his impact on the teams he played for. If he played for inferior teams he will make that case but comparing Hall as a FA and a back up goalie, hmm

A goalie is a little different, ya think? Goalies have more to do with wins and loses than anyone on the ice.

Use whatever stats you like, a back up goalie with a 14-7-4 record, I think there is probably 30 other teams would take that.
Lexington Flyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NoHockeyTown , KY
Joined: 04.02.2008

Feb 14 @ 10:54 AM ET
You picked a good one. My son is doing mites on ice at that game


Sorry, I'm from DE so can't really give any advice regarding your questions.

- Big_E_88



Ha! How fun for your son! That is good stuff!
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 14 @ 10:57 AM ET
Rookie goalies excelling in the playoffs is not as rare as you think.

1971: rookie Ken Dryden leads the Habs to the Cup

1986: rookie Patrick Roy does the same

1987: Ron Hextall wins the Smythe after getting the Flyers to game 7 in the finals

2000 Brian Boucher leads the Flyers to the conference final.

And more recently:

2006 Cam Ward with Carolina
2010 Niemi with Chicago
And, of course, Binnington last year.

- BiggE


what up BiggE
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:05 AM ET
Rookie goalies excelling in the playoffs is not as rare as you think.

1971: rookie Ken Dryden leads the Habs to the Cup

1986: rookie Patrick Roy does the same

1987: Ron Hextall wins the Smythe after getting the Flyers to game 7 in the finals

2000 Brian Boucher leads the Flyers to the conference final.

And more recently:

2006 Cam Ward with Carolina
2010 Niemi with Chicago
And, of course, Binnington last year.

- BiggE


Doesnt that just prove the point that it is rare? You listed 7 goalies over the course of 49 years which is 1.4%
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Trump is your President for five more years, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Feb 14 @ 11:10 AM ET
Doesnt that just prove the point that it is rare? You listed 7 goalies over the course of 49 years which is 1.4%
- xShoot4WarAmpsx


14.29%


Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Feb 14 @ 11:10 AM ET
14-7-4 for Elliot, with Hart out he went 4-1. Stats are stats but on most nights he has given his team a chance to win
- wcorvette


I was gonna post this. 14 and 7 is a solid record. Stats are skewed by all those crazy games I mention.

Further, let’s do you want to upgrade. How much more is it going to cost you? You won’t get improvement with a 700k guy. You want to pay 2.5 mil or more and term for a backup?
Pompous
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Ruskin, FL
Joined: 02.19.2014

Feb 14 @ 11:10 AM ET
Elliott's below average goaltending cost the team at least a point just three days ago.
- Feanor

It went in off the crossbar. It was NEVER an easy stop.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Feb 14 @ 11:11 AM ET
not on its own but you take the record and the eye test, Elliot has been solid, he has made momentum saves, sure he missed a few but what goalie has not. Fancy stats are fine but it is always better to rely on what you see. Not sure about the 30 years out of date comment, last I checked you get paid to win in hockey and everything else.
- wcorvette


Winning is still the name of the game and it takes timely saves to do that. To me that’s the most important judge of a goalie’s performance.
countreeman28
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NJ
Joined: 01.10.2007

Feb 14 @ 11:12 AM ET
So just coming in to check the mood. How has PelleL31 been holding up? MJL keeping everyone in line?

Just because I have not been in much the last few seasons does not mean I have not been following the team....it just means I have been busy as hell. I do a lot of work around the burgeoning hemp industry. Actually have gotten to chit chat with Cote a few times at various hemp/cannabis conferences...he is a big advocate.

Anyway...so...I have been a flyers fan for decades but I have not lived in PA (grew up in central PA) since I was 18. So I have seen a lot of games live over the years...in DC, Columbus, Nashville...but I never have been to a home game. Kids are now 10 and 7 and so we're about to remedy that....just got tix for the March 29 game vs. the Pens. Why go small, right? Coming up from KY for the game and to hang in Philly for a few days see some historical stuff (oldest kid is into Alexander Hamilton, thanks to the broadway play soundtrack) and enjoy the game. So looking for recommendations on good neighborhoods for finding an Air B and B that are safe and close to the history and also provide a reasonable spot to access the Wells Fargo. Looking to take the Metro-Subway to the game. Any suggestions?

Is the Metro a good option for getting to the Wells Fargo? Is Passyunk square area a decent option? Been a long time since I have been in Philly at all...maybe 2001 for a Phish concert at the spectrum? Any ideas appreciated!

- Lexington Flyer




Hello, again, fellow old head!


MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Trump is your President for five more years, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Feb 14 @ 11:18 AM ET
Hello, again, fellow old head!
- countreeman28


ya both newbs!
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:19 AM ET
14.29%
- MBFlyerfan

whoops
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