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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Handle Florida, 6-2
Author Message
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 14 @ 11:20 AM ET
Doesnt that just prove the point that it is rare? You listed 7 goalies over the course of 49 years which is 1.4%
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

Rookie goalies have led their teams to 4 of the last 14 cups (forgot Murray in 2016). That’s 28.6%, hardly rare.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 14 @ 11:20 AM ET
what up BiggE
- wcorvette

All good, how’s things with you?
Yosimar89
Vegas Golden Knights
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Joined: 05.11.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:21 AM ET
Remember when certain people had all their panties in a bunch when Coach Q decided to go to Florida?

Good times.
xShoot4WarAmpsx
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hamilton, ON
Joined: 06.25.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:22 AM ET
Rookie goalies have led their teams to 4 of the last 14 cups (forgot Murray in 2016). That’s 28.6%, hardly rare.
- BiggE


I dunno, just saying I think it will do Hart a lot of good to start Game 2 and on. I know he has been rock solid but we have seen how he can be especially on the road.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:27 AM ET
All good, how’s things with you?
- BiggE



living the dream, you still hitting the 6 strings in North Florida?
Bayareaflyer
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 10.10.2008

Feb 14 @ 11:27 AM ET
Have not heard any Braun bashing lately - his +/- has improved dramatically
arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

Feb 14 @ 11:29 AM ET
Have not heard any Braun bashing lately - his +/- has improved dramatically
- Bayareaflyer


Hard to bash a guy who has more points than PK Subban
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Feb 14 @ 11:30 AM ET
Hard to bash a guy who has more points than PK Subban
- arichardson22


He's slotted more appropriately as a #5, that's probably why.
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Feb 14 @ 11:34 AM ET
I dunno, just saying I think it will do Hart a lot of good to start Game 2 and on. I know he has been rock solid but we have seen how he can be especially on the road.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx


His road SV% (.928) was actually quite a bit higher than his home (.912) last season, so it's not like this season's split is due to some inherent weakness they have to manage around.

Goaltending is witchcraft. Plain and simple.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Feb 14 @ 11:36 AM ET
your absolute lean on stats over the eye test is amazing. Save % or expected save % is great but when a goalie comes up with a save at the right time of the game and the team responds that is more important, in my opinion. Elliot has done a solid job for a backup.

Taylor Hall will get paid based upon how he performed, that will include his impact on the teams he played for. If he played for inferior teams he will make that case but comparing Hall as a FA and a back up goalie, hmm

A goalie is a little different, ya think? Goalies have more to do with wins and loses than anyone on the ice.

Use whatever stats you like, a back up goalie with a 14-7-4 record, I think there is probably 30 other teams would take that.

- wcorvette


Hhof member grant fuhr used to have average stats but was known for making key saves at critical times. If you relied only on stats and never watched him, you’d be puzzled how he won so many games and cups. Watching him play you saw the momentum saves he made etc.. Stats matter, but don’t tell t he whole story, especially for a tender.
Hextall271
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hart-Land, NB
Joined: 01.18.2007

Feb 14 @ 11:39 AM ET
I dunno, just saying I think it will do Hart a lot of good to start Game 2 and on. I know he has been rock solid but we have seen how he can be especially on the road.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx


You make interesting points, but I’m focussed on The big picture. Hart is the future and if we make it, the playoffs and everything they bring are part of him growing into the stud goalie I think he’ll be. I don’t think we’re a legit contender this year so you want to give him the opportunity to grow even if there’s pains.
BiggE
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Buh bye NJ, hello Florida!
Joined: 04.17.2012

Feb 14 @ 11:42 AM ET
living the dream, you still hitting the 6 strings in North Florida?
- wcorvette

Yup, life is good. Chilling down in Cape Coral but heading back home tomorrow.
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

Feb 14 @ 11:45 AM ET
Yup, life is good. Chilling down in Cape Coral but heading back home tomorrow.
- BiggE



keep rocking daddio
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Feb 14 @ 11:49 AM ET
Hhof member grant fuhr used to have average stats but was known for making key saves at critical times. If you relied only on stats and never watched him, you’d be puzzled how he won so many games and cups. Watching him play you saw the momentum saves he made etc.. Stats matter, but don’t tell t he whole story, especially for a tender.
- Hextall271


I don't believe you can judge goalies purely on stats, but this myth of the "key stop" is also fallible. It just comes to what's stuck around in your personal memory banks.

I have a sense that Elliott's made a lot of key stops over the years. But I also have the sense that he's let in quite a few preventable goals, too. None of that is remembered with a high degree of precision, so it's pretty unreliable.
Doc_Sarcasm
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Should of studied Geometry
Joined: 04.28.2013

Feb 14 @ 11:59 AM ET
I don't believe you can judge goalies purely on stats, but this myth of the "key stop" is also fallible. It just comes to what's stuck around in your personal memory banks.

I have a sense that Elliott's made a lot of key stops over the years. But I also have the sense that he's let in quite a few preventable goals, too. None of that is remembered with a high degree of precision, so it's pretty unreliable.

- Tomahawk



I've always felt that Elliott was prone to giving up one weak goal a game. Thats a feeling, mind you.. totally unverifiable, and probably unjustified. But, I've never felt comfortable with him in net. I'm always waiting for the next soft goal (or worse, injury!).
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 14 @ 12:00 PM ET
That's not even a question. Hart is far better than Elliott.

Fletcher should be looking at ways to get a better backup goalie before the deadline.

- Feanor


I completely disagree with that. I have no issues with Elliott as the backup.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 14 @ 12:03 PM ET
Elliott's below average goaltending cost the team at least a point just three days ago.
- Feanor



Anyone who blames Elliot for that goal is wrong. Pulock's shot was unstoppable.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 14 @ 12:07 PM ET
He played fine. Had two bad shifts in two games.
- bmeltzer


I don't agree Bill. I see it the other way. He made a couple of good plays with the puck but that was about it. He was not aggressive and not engaged in the play. He was weak on the puck.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Feb 14 @ 12:07 PM ET
You make interesting points, but I’m focussed on The big picture. Hart is the future and if we make it, the playoffs and everything they bring are part of him growing into the stud goalie I think he’ll be. I don’t think we’re a legit contender this year so you want to give him the opportunity to grow even if there’s pains.
- Hextall271


Anything can happen in the playoffs, as long as he is healthy you start Hart. He is the present and future. I am happy with the Flyers goaltender depth and see no reason to add.

I hope Elliott plays tomorrow and Hart plays both Columbus games.

KINGKENZO
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: OMAR COMIN'..Head or Gut?.....Watching regular white people
Joined: 01.10.2008

Feb 14 @ 12:13 PM ET
You asked me if I watched the games, but you didn't even watch the games from this week. Or you're so deep in denial you can't admit that Elliott had to get a piece of Pulock's shot.

I wonder if there are Buffalo fans telling themselves Carter Hutton is having a good season.

- Feanor

you got it, tiger
Tomahawk
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner Bandwagon
Joined: 02.04.2009

Feb 14 @ 12:13 PM ET
Anything can happen in the playoffs, as long as he is healthy you start Hart. He is the present and future. I am happy with the Flyers goaltender depth and see no reason to add.

I hope Elliott plays tomorrow and Hart plays both Columbus games.

- NC Flyers Fan


Whoever is playing better at the time should get the start. It's really not any more complicated than that. If the PO's started today, Hart should get the start. But things can change in a hurry. No reason to make up our minds one way or the other with 20-something game to go and the Flyers PO chances basically a coin flip.
KINGKENZO
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: OMAR COMIN'..Head or Gut?.....Watching regular white people
Joined: 01.10.2008

Feb 14 @ 12:18 PM ET
As opposed to the $5M guy, who's 8 spots below Elliott in GSAx, that Toronto kept? Man, that Holtby guy must suck, too, he's 10 spots below sucky Elliott. And who's this loser Marc-Andre Fleury who's a whopping 13 spots behind terrible Elliott.

I guess Holtby, Fleury, and Anderson should all have been waived as well based on the GSAx link you just provided. Overpaid losers. I also wasn't aware that James Reimer is the best goalie in the NHL. Because stats.

- jmatchett383

but that eye test too, doe
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 14 @ 12:19 PM ET


The level of denial in the face of clear statistical proof of the poor year Elliott is having, not just compared to other goalies but to his own previous seasons in Philly, is astonishing.

- Feanor


The fatal flaw in your analysis is that you think those stats point to Elliott and Elliott alone.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Feb 14 @ 12:19 PM ET
I never said he didnt. I said he never started. What I am arguing is Hart should sit for the first game and just the first game to take in the atmosphere which is similar to Murray. Any playoff win is a significant role. Hart could be fine and I could be worrying to much but the playoffs are completely different then the regular season and starting off on the road against a team like WSH or BOS is gonna be tough and unforgiving.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx


That premise is ridiculous. The only atmosphere Hart should be taking in is the atmosphere on the ice.
HeeroYuy
Location: Ligma, IL
Joined: 04.15.2017

Feb 14 @ 1:03 PM ET
I've always felt that Elliott was prone to giving up one weak goal a game. Thats a feeling, mind you.. totally unverifiable, and probably unjustified. But, I've never felt comfortable with him in net. I'm always waiting for the next soft goal (or worse, injury!).
- Doc_Sarcasm


I feel the same way. It's weird af, he will make some crazy as saves one second and then 5 minutes later let in a soft-serve momentum changer. Super frustrating, but overall he has been decent.
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