Jeremy Laura: The unlucky 7 - Bernier addresses a possible 10 month break

As much as I would like to see the Wings play again and most players wish to play even under the these strange conditions..... it would be impractible for the 7 cellar dwellers to play.
If they did it would probably just be for some exibition games so the top 24 could "tune up" their lines and special teams and their goalies face some rubber.
I still feel a play-off will happen this summer though.
I, for one would hope that Detroit gets that #1 pick, and put Laf in a winged wheel jersey!

As much as I would like to see the Wings play again and most players wish to play even under the these strange conditions..... it would be impractible for the 7 cellar dwellers to play.
If they did it would probably just be for some exibition games so the top 24 could "tune up" their lines and special teams and their goalies face some rubber.
I still feel a play-off will happen this summer though.
I, for one would hope that Detroit gets that #1 pick, and put Laf in a winged wheel jersey!
- HenryHockey

I can appreciate the point. Keep in mind, it sounds like the 24 team format is for pre playoff and not the actual playoffs. No idea how many, but some of those teams will be done before the playoffs “start”. It’s akin to exhibition to get players back in the groove. The bottom7 would suffer the same fate as a few other teams in that case

AF would be an AMAZING get

OK, so we might play 0 games in 9 months. Teams like Chicago or Anaheim or Buffalo or whatever other awful team makes this tournament will end up playing maybe 5 or 6 games over those same 9 months. Bottom line...most players are going to face an extremely long layoff.

OK, so we might play 0 games in 9 months. Teams like Chicago or Anaheim or Buffalo or whatever other awful team makes this tournament will end up playing maybe 5 or 6 games over those same 9 months. Bottom line...most players are going to face an extremely long layoff.
- Kooleus

So that means Howard would go an entire year without a win... That’s an incredible achievement for a goalie that was once an all-star. Picking him over Mrazek seems like a bad decision in hindsight.

So that means Howard would go an entire year without a win... That’s an incredible achievement for a goalie that was once an all-star. Picking him over Mrazek seems like a bad decision in hindsight.
- Manthamania

Howard was the better goalie til this past year. And Mrazek is still not the goalie he was in 2015-16. Philly even let him go after a less than adequate performance there. It also can be argued that Mrazek has played on much better teams and his stats should reflect that. And face it, the Canes will be looking for a starter in goal next year. Maybe the Wings will make a deal with them when Mrazek or Riemer become expendable when the Canes sign that new starter! Maybe a Bernier/Riemer tandem happens again! I don't think Mrazek would want to come back to Detroit.

Howard over Mrazek isn't just bad in hindsight. It always looked bad and has only looked worse since.

That said it's not like Mrazek has has really distinguished himself as anything other than a really streaky goalie who always seems to end up with slightly below average numbers in the end.

I freaking loved Mrazek when he was with the Griffins and his first few pro years were so promising. I don't know that I've ever wanted a player to become an NHL star so badly and been so disappointed that it just never quite panned out for him.

His athleticism is so good that I still wonder a little bit if maybe it's all something that can just be fixed with better coaching or tactics or mental discipline or something. I would still love to see him put it all together when he still has a little gas left in the tank at least, but I don't know that it'll happen.

Howard was the better goalie til this past year. And Mrazek is still not the goalie he was in 2015-16.
- HenryHockey

I disagree with the first sentence.

I agree with the second one.

Howard was the better goalie til this past year. And Mrazek is still not the goalie he was in 2015-16. Philly even let him go after a less than adequate performance there. It also can be argued that Mrazek has played on much better teams and his stats should reflect that. And face it, the Canes will be looking for a starter in goal next year. Maybe the Wings will make a deal with them when Mrazek or Riemer become expendable when the Canes sign that new starter! Maybe a Bernier/Riemer tandem happens again! I don't think Mrazek would want to come back to Detroit.
- HenryHockey

Are you forgetting when Mrazek came into the NHL and saved Howard's ass? Jimmy couldn't stop a Beach Ball and went over 3 months without winning a game. Why was Mrazek always the scapegoat in Detroit? He never got credit for anything. But he was constantly blamed when the $hit hit the fan.

This is what I've never understood. The Red Wings media has always made excuses for Howard. They've coddled him and given him tons of credit when none of it was deserved. Holland controlled the Red Wings media for years and used hacks like HSJ, Khan and Kulfan to spin his agenda driven BS. To justify his horrible contracts.

Most Red Wings fans can't think for themselves. They literally copy and paste what they read from the PR hacks, reword it and pretend it's an original thought. Holland pimped Jimmy hard and $hit on Mrazek because he wouldn't knuckle under at contract time.

After Holland reluctantly ate a warm sandwich with Mrazek he had his PR hacks sling mud at him until he was finally able to run him out of Detroit. I'll never say Mrazek is an elite goalie. He may not even be very good. But he's much better than Howard. Jimmy Howard has been stealing money from the Red Wings for most of his career.

At his very best he was average. At his worst he was an AHL goalie. Too many excuses and not enough results. One career playoff round win. Wow! It's never his fault when the Red Wings lose. But he gets all the credit when they win. Look at the most recent season.

The spin Master puppet Red Wings media tried pretending Howard was still the #1 goalie all season. Even though Bernier was the much better goalie. They both played behind the same pathetic group of players. Bernier played great while Howard $hit the bed.

I'm very happy the Jimmy Howard era is over. Howard was never better than Mrazek Jimmy can have fun counting all the money he didn't earn. I'm sick of the excuses, coddling and lying. I've never seen a goalie shielded from criticism or blame as much as this guy. Good riddance!

Are you forgetting when Mrazek came into the NHL and saved Howard's ass? Jimmy couldn't stop a Beach Ball and went over 3 months without winning a game. Why was Mrazek always the scapegoat in Detroit? He never got credit for anything. But he was constantly blamed when the $hit hit the fan.

This is what I've never understood. The Red Wings media has always made excuses for Howard. They've coddled him and given him tons of credit when none of it was deserved. Holland controlled the Red Wings media for years and used hacks like HSJ, Khan and Kulfan to spin his agenda driven BS. To justify his horrible contracts.

Most Red Wings fans can't think for themselves. They literally copy and paste what they read from the PR hacks, reword it and pretend it's an original thought. Holland pimped Jimmy hard and $hit on Mrazek because he wouldn't knuckle under at contract time.

After Holland reluctantly ate a warm sandwich with Mrazek he had his PR hacks sling mud at him until he was finally able to run him out of Detroit. I'll never say Mrazek is an elite goalie. He may not even be very good. But he's much better than Howard. Jimmy Howard has been stealing money from the Red Wings for most of his career.

At his very best he was average. At his worst he was an AHL goalie. Too many excuses and not enough results. One career playoff round win. Wow! It's never his fault when the Red Wings lose. But he gets all the credit when they win. Look at the most recent season.

The spin Master puppet Red Wings media tried pretending Howard was still the #1 goalie all season. Even though Bernier was the much better goalie. They both played behind the same pathetic group of players. Bernier played great while Howard $hit the bed.

I'm very happy the Jimmy Howard era is over. Howard was never better than Mrazek Jimmy can have fun counting all the money he didn't earn. I'm sick of the excuses, coddling and lying. I've never seen a goalie shielded from criticism or blame as much as this guy. Good riddance!
- gergeswillems

My wife went nuts when Babs refused to let Osgood play and kept riding Jimmy. Same with Mrazek. It never made sense.

Year | Howard | Mrazek
2015 | 0.910 | 0.918
2016 | 0.906 | 0.921
2017 | 0.927 | 0.901
2018 | 0.910 | 0.902 (.910 at time of trade)
2019 | 0.909 | 0.914
2020 | 0.882 | 0.905

Mrazek has had the edge on Howard much more often than not since he came into the league full time.

The major outlier was 2017. Mrazek seemed to struggle with the adjustment to being the No. 1 and Howard looked amazing (when he was healthy). The fact that the two have similar career averages since 2015 is almost entirely attributable to that single year, when Mrazek gave back basically all the extra goals he saved over Howard in all the other years.

I think even at the time though I (and I think most other Detroit fans who were posting here) were saying they'd much rather trade Howard and keep Mrazek. I think it was pretty obvious that Howard, who was already 32 and had been a below average NHL goalie for a few years already, was having a fluke year and would regress back to being not very good, while Mrazek would rebound. And that's exactly what happened, although Mrazek's rebound didn't reach as high as hoped.

My wife went nuts when Babs refused to let Osgood play and kept riding Jimmy. Same with Mrazek. It never made sense.
- Jeremy Laura

I mean you watch all the games just like I do. How many times did we hear Mickey Redmond making excuses for horrible Jimmy Howard goals? "Oh there isn't a goalie in the NHL who could've stopped that." Really? Isn't it the goalies job to stop the puck? Or "The Red Wings are leaving Jimmy hung out to dry. You can't expect any goalie in the world to stop that. The puck was deflected at least 5 times!" So goalies can't make great saves? I see other goalies make them. It's not impossible.

But since guys like Redmond and Osgood are paid by the Red Wings, they'll never tell the truth. But it went beyond that with Jimmy Howard. You'd think he never let in a bad goal ever. It was always bad luck or the team in front of him. Poor Jimmy Howard. If it weren't for the Red Wings he'd be a first ballot Hall of Fame goalie with a GAA of 0.00.

Year | Howard | Mrazek
2015 | 0.910 | 0.918
2016 | 0.906 | 0.921
2017 | 0.927 | 0.901
2018 | 0.910 | 0.902 (.910 at time of trade)
2019 | 0.909 | 0.914
2020 | 0.882 | 0.905

Mrazek has had the edge on Howard much more often than not since he came into the league full time.

The major outlier was 2017. Mrazek seemed to struggle with the adjustment to being the No. 1 and Howard looked amazing (when he was healthy). The fact that the two have similar career averages since 2015 is almost entirely attributable to that single year, when Mrazek gave back basically all the extra goals he saved over Howard in all the other years.

I think even at the time though I (and I think most other Detroit fans who were posting here) were saying they'd much rather trade Howard and keep Mrazek. I think it was pretty obvious that Howard, who was already 32 and had been a below average NHL goalie for a few years already, was having a fluke year and would regress back to being not very good, while Mrazek would rebound. And that's exactly what happened, although Mrazek's rebound didn't reach as high as hoped.
- Sven22

Why would Holland protect Howard and Abdelkader in the Expansion Draft? I still can't figure that one out.

Are you forgetting when Mrazek came into the NHL and saved Howard's ass? Jimmy couldn't stop a Beach Ball and went over 3 months without winning a game. Why was Mrazek always the scapegoat in Detroit? He never got credit for anything. But he was constantly blamed when the $hit hit the fan.

This is what I've never understood. The Red Wings media has always made excuses for Howard. They've coddled him and given him tons of credit when none of it was deserved. Holland controlled the Red Wings media for years and used hacks like HSJ, Khan and Kulfan to spin his agenda driven BS. To justify his horrible contracts.

Most Red Wings fans can't think for themselves. They literally copy and paste what they read from the PR hacks, reword it and pretend it's an original thought. Holland pimped Jimmy hard and $hit on Mrazek because he wouldn't knuckle under at contract time.

After Holland reluctantly ate a warm sandwich with Mrazek he had his PR hacks sling mud at him until he was finally able to run him out of Detroit. I'll never say Mrazek is an elite goalie. He may not even be very good. But he's much better than Howard. Jimmy Howard has been stealing money from the Red Wings for most of his career.

At his very best he was average. At his worst he was an AHL goalie. Too many excuses and not enough results. One career playoff round win. Wow! It's never his fault when the Red Wings lose. But he gets all the credit when they win. Look at the most recent season.

The spin Master puppet Red Wings media tried pretending Howard was still the #1 goalie all season. Even though Bernier was the much better goalie. They both played behind the same pathetic group of players. Bernier played great while Howard $hit the bed.

I'm very happy the Jimmy Howard era is over. Howard was never better than Mrazek Jimmy can have fun counting all the money he didn't earn. I'm sick of the excuses, coddling and lying. I've never seen a goalie shielded from criticism or blame as much as this guy. Good riddance!
- gergeswillems

I suspect there's a decent chance we never even really saw Peak Jimmy. His best season statistically (by far) was his rookie campaign, when he was already 25. And during the years he was stuck in GR before that he was generally blowing his backups out of the water statistically. It's honestly really plausible that he wasted what could have been the best years of his entire career in the AHL.

And honestly, for the first 3-4 years of his NHL career he was better than an average goalie. Certainly not elite, but probably top half of NHL starters. Maybe tenth best in the league or thereabouts.

Tough to say the Red Wings might have advanced further in 2006 (Legace, who was always underrated), 2007 (Hasek), or 2009 (Osgood, who was pretty much already washed but somehow miraculously was great in the playoffs) if they had brought up Howard earlier, but I've always kinda wondered. Who knows?

That said, I agree with you that Howard has not been a particularly good goalie for like 7-8 years running now and the amount of slack / excuses he's gotten in that timeframe are unbelievable.

Why would Holland protect Howard and Abdelkader in the Expansion Draft? I still can't figure that one out.
- gergeswillems

Had to expose Nosek because he looked too much like H.P Lovecraft. Creeped everyone out.

For real though, just thinking about the fact that Holland actually protected Abdelkader (as if his contract wasn't already more than enough of a disincentive to pick him) makes my brain hurt.

I mean you watch all the games just like I do. How many times did we hear Mickey Redmond making excuses for horrible Jimmy Howard goals? "Oh there isn't a goalie in the NHL who could've stopped that." Really? Isn't it the goalies job to stop the puck? Or "The Red Wings are leaving Jimmy hung out to dry. You can't expect any goalie in the world to stop that. The puck was deflected at least 5 times!" So goalies can't make great saves? I see other goalies make them. It's not impossible.

But since guys like Redmond and Osgood are paid by the Red Wings, they'll never tell the truth. But it went beyond that with Jimmy Howard. You'd think he never let in a bad goal ever. It was always bad luck or the team in front of him. Poor Jimmy Howard. If it weren't for the Red Wings he'd be a first ballot Hall of Fame goalie with a GAA of 0.00.
- gergeswillems

I can’t for the life of me understand it. I do remember a column Q and A in the paper (around 2010) where someone said “Jimmy cannot lead a team to a championship”. There was a vehement disagreement by the author. I hope the person who wrote in kept that column....

For teams to “win”, the goalies have to do some spectacular stuff at one point or another. I rarely believe the “no goalie could stop that” line when we’ve seen incredible saves year after year in post season. You are not wrong/crazy to feel frustrated. It’s awful

Why would Holland protect Howard and Abdelkader in the Expansion Draft? I still can't figure that one out.
- gergeswillems

Abby had some no trade/no move protection at one point. That is just as beguiling as the protection itself....

Abby had some no trade/no move protection at one point. That is just as beguiling as the protection itself....
- Jeremy Laura

Abdelkader literally owes his career to Pavel Datsyuk. As soon as he left Dear Abby was exposed for the dime a dozen plug he truly is. I still recall Holland saying "When you have a power forward you have to lock him up." Lowball Hossa who took a pay cut to come here. But let's over pay the overrated Abdelkader for 7 more years. Thanks Ken.

I can’t for the life of me understand it. I do remember a column Q and A in the paper (around 2010) where someone said “Jimmy cannot lead a team to a championship”. There was a vehement disagreement by the author. I hope the person who wrote in kept that column....

For teams to “win”, the goalies have to do some spectacular stuff at one point or another. I rarely believe the “no goalie could stop that” line when we’ve seen incredible saves year after year in post season. You are not wrong/crazy to feel frustrated. It’s awful
- Jeremy Laura

I mean it's not just the goals Howard gave up. It's when he gave them up. You just knew if it was a tie game going into the third period, Jimmy was going to give up the game winning goal. Overtime? Why even play it? He couldn't win. How many shootout losses? Pretty much every one of them. It would always be blamed on the defense or an unlucky bounce, etc. Never Jimmy though. Mrazek would make 46 saves and lose 2-1 and he'd be burned at the stake.

What I disliked about Howard was after a loss I'd never hear him say "I lost the game. I need to be better. That one's on me." Instead it was always "We need to be better. We made too many mental errors. We weren't good enough tonight." So basically Howard played great and his teammates were awful. Great team guy. But when I think about it, why would he ever hold himself accountable? His GM never did.

I suspect there's a decent chance we never even really saw Peak Jimmy. His best season statistically (by far) was his rookie campaign, when he was already 25. And during the years he was stuck in GR before that he was generally blowing his backups out of the water statistically. It's honestly really plausible that he wasted what could have been the best years of his entire career in the AHL.

And honestly, for the first 3-4 years of his NHL career he was better than an average goalie. Certainly not elite, but probably top half of NHL starters. Maybe tenth best in the league or thereabouts.

Tough to say the Red Wings might have advanced further in 2006 (Legace, who was always underrated), 2007 (Hasek), or 2009 (Osgood, who was pretty much already washed but somehow miraculously was great in the playoffs) if they had brought up Howard earlier, but I've always kinda wondered. Who knows?

That said, I agree with you that Howard has not been a particularly good goalie for like 7-8 years running now and the amount of slack / excuses he's gotten in that timeframe are unbelievable.
- Sven22

I recall thinking, are we ever going to see this guy playing for the Red Wings? The Kenny Holland over ripening development system. I never did agree with that. If a player is NHL ready then he should be playing in the NHL. See Tatar, Mrazek and Nyquist.

I recall reading in the Hockey News about how dominant Jimmy Howard was at Boston College. I thought the Red Wings might finally have a stud Franchise goalie. Boy was I wrong. But 4 years in Grand Rapids? Such a waste.

Had to expose Nosek because he looked too much like H.P Lovecraft. Creeped everyone out.

For real though, just thinking about the fact that Holland actually protected Abdelkader (as if his contract wasn't already more than enough of a disincentive to pick him) makes my brain hurt.
- Sven22

I mean it's not like Nosek was going to be anything special. But Holland put in alot of time developing him and being patient. He could've been an Abby replacement. A useful depth guy making minimal money. To lose him for nothing was embarrassing. It was an easy choice for Vegas GM George McPhee. Protecting Abdelkader was stupid. IIRC, players with no trade clauses could be exposed. Players with no move clauses had to be protected. Abby had a NTC.

Abdelkader literally owes his career to Pavel Datsyuk. As soon as he left Dear Abby was exposed for the dime a dozen plug he truly is. I still recall Holland saying "When you have a power forward you have to lock him up." Lowball Hossa who took a pay cut to come here. But let's over pay the overrated Abdelkader for 7 more years. Thanks Ken.
- gergeswillems

That one always cracked me up.

I think the rationale at the time from the Abby apologists was something like "Abdelkader is the only guy in the lineup who plays a big, physical game and you need guys like that on your team!"

Right, because the team "needs" size and grit up front and Abdelkader is the "only" one who currently provides it, in 2015, when he's already 28 and about to turn 29, let's make sure we lock him up until 2023 (!!!!????!?!?!)

The argument for that contract was always ridiculous on its face, and that's even if you made the most charitable possible assumptions and projections about Abdelkader's true skillset and aging curve.

The fact that it should have been obvious to anyone that Abby was 100% a product of his elite linemates and that his production would drop like a rock without them (and as he aged into his 30s) makes it even worse.

That one always cracked me up.

I think the rationale at the time from the Abby apologists was something like "Abdelkader is the only guy in the lineup who plays a big, physical game and you need guys like that on your team!"

Right, because the team "needs" size and grit up front and Abdelkader is the "only" one who currently provides it, in 2015, when he's already 28 and about to turn 29, let's make sure we lock him up until 2023 (!!!!????!?!?!)

The argument for that contract was always ridiculous on its face, and that's even if you made the most charitable possible assumptions and projections about Abdelkader's true skillset and aging curve.

The fact that it should have been obvious to anyone that Abby was 100% a product of his elite linemates and that his production would drop like a rock without them (and as he aged into his 30s) makes it even worse.
- Sven22

Intangibles! $4.25 million AAV for 7 years of intangibles! How many pianos has he pulled since #13 left? Zero?

I recall thinking, are we ever going to see this guy playing for the Red Wings? The Kenny Holland over ripening development system. I never did agree with that. If a player is NHL ready then he should be playing in the NHL. See Tatar, Mrazek and Nyquist.

I recall reading in the Hockey News about how dominant Jimmy Howard was at Boston College. I thought the Red Wings might finally have a stud Franchise goalie. Boy was I wrong. But 4 years in Grand Rapids? Such a waste.
- gergeswillems

I decided to crunch the numbers.

From 2005-06 to 2008-09, Howard gave up 475 goals on 4849 shots for the Griffins (.911).

Over the same period, the Griffins allowed 437 goals on 3734 shots when someone other than Howard was in goal (.895).

Year by year:

2006
Howard .910
Not Howard .894

2007
Howard .911
Not Howard .893

2008
Howard .907
Not Howard .887

2009
Howard .916
Not Howard .906

Granted he had not the greatest competition for the crease, but it wasn't 100% chumps either. Those first two years especially he split time with Joey MacDonald (very okay NHL backup) and Stefan Liv (decent SEL/KHL goalie) and was much better than both.

Something to think about. Overripe almost certainly. In retrospect it's especially difficult to comprehend how he managed to stay stuck in GR all of 2008-09 while the Red Wings rolled with Osgood and Conklin all year.

I decided to crunch the numbers.

From 2005-06 to 2008-09, Howard gave up 475 goals on 4849 shots for the Griffins (.911).

Over the same period, the Griffins allowed 437 goals on 3734 shots when someone other than Howard was in goal (.895).

Year by year:

2006
Howard .910
Not Howard .894

2007
Howard .911
Not Howard .893

2008
Howard .907
Not Howard .887

2009
Howard .916
Not Howard .906

Granted he had not the greatest competition for the crease, but it wasn't 100% chumps either. Those first two years especially he split time with Joey MacDonald (very okay NHL backup) and Stefan Liv (decent SEL/KHL goalie) and was much better than both.

Something to think about. Overripe almost certainly. In retrospect it's especially difficult to comprehend how he managed to stay stuck in GR all of 2008-09 while the Red Wings rolled with Osgood and Conklin all year.
- Sven22

Holland loved Osgood like a son. He kept him way after his best before date expired. But there's no reason why a young Jimmy Howard should've played 4 years in Grand Rapids. Making your NHL debut at 25? Ridiculous. I mean you can't argue against the Hasek-Osgood tandem in 2008. No Osgood no Cup after Dom $hit the bed in Nashville. Maybe I'm arguing against myself. Surely a young Jimmy Howard could've been better than Ty "my nose is too big" Conklin?