Bill Meltzer: Vigneault Finishes 2nd in Jack Adams Award Vote, Quick Hits for 9/10/20

Welp after Cassidy getting Jack Adams, I have little faith that Couts will win they Selke. Hope I’m wrong.

Jake is complacent, along with others who they won't trade. He doesnt
have that drive to win at all cost or even hate losing to me.
The holy trinity needs to be broken up. How people cant see that is baffling to me. It is about moving the team forward. Not keeping the status quo.

Jake is complacent, along with others who they won't trade. He doesnt
have that drive to win at all cost or even hate losing to me.
The holy trinity needs to be broken up. How people cant see that is baffling to me. It is about moving the team forward. Not keeping the status quo.
- login

Highly recommend you give Flyers daily a listen with Bill as the guest. They dive into Jake trade discussion

Highly recommend you give Flyers daily a listen with Bill as the guest. They dive into Jake trade discussion
- arichardson22

Flyers employees discussing trades may not be the best place to go for that.

Cam you provide a summary if you don’t mind?

Welp after Cassidy getting Jack Adams, I have little faith that Couts will win they Selke. Hope I’m wrong.
- arichardson22

There is a pretty neck and neck argument for Couturier and Bergeron. We’re the Flyers, so Bergeron.

I think they should trade ghost and trade jvr with salary retained. Up to as much as they need to retain to move him. Jake showed me that he can be an effective player in vigneaults system. He showed me a lot so it’s a shame to me that he feels that way, but he needs to suck it up that’s why he makes the big bucks. Nothing you can do with giroux but ride out his deal. 2 more years

But who are you replacing the "holy trinity " with?

There is a pretty neck and neck argument for Couturier and Bergeron. We’re the Flyers, so Bergeron.
- SuperSchennBros

Exactly lol!

But who are you replacing the "holy trinity " with?
- Pelle31Forever

Does there ever come a time when teams need to move on from players who have been here for a long time and they haven't really done much winning (regardless of the reason). Do players become stagnant despite putting up good individual numbers?
Or do you just keep riding it out hoping and praying something from within will change?

At what point after how many coaches do say maybe its time to move some players?

Flyers employees discussing trades may not be the best place to go for that.

Cam you provide a summary if you don’t mind?
- login

Surely....

Jake’s production the last 7 years ranks amongst elite winger (and forwards) company. Guys like Aho, Tarasenko, Kessel. We need to stop saying he needs to score more goals bc never in his career has he been a goal scorer. He consistently gets 20 and racks up assists. His size and playmaking aren’t easily replaceable if you ship him out. And no deal will likely make up his production. The podcast suggests neither Bill or Jason are opposed to shaking up our core. But they realistically review it’s tough to replace Jake.

I know the coach can't be faulted for the GM giving him a good/bad lineup, but I think Cassidy has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. Deepest team in the league with arguably the top line in the NHL, a top-5 defense, and a bonafide stud in goal.

Not saying AV should 100% have won, I just think Cassidy had a much easier time than the other 2 finalists.

I know the coach can't be faulted for the GM giving him a good/bad lineup, but I think Cassidy has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. Deepest team in the league with arguably the top line in the NHL, a top-5 defense, and a bonafide stud in goal.

Not saying AV should 100% have won, I just think Cassidy had a much easier time than the other 2 finalists.
- jmatchett383

Agree. I really thought this award was between AV and Torts. Cassidy wasn’t even in my thoughts solely because he had literally the same roster as the Cup team.

Surely....

Jake’s production the last 7 years ranks amongst elite winger (and forwards) company. Guys like Aho, Tarasenko, Kessel. We need to stop saying he needs to score more goals bc never in his career has he been a goal scorer. He consistently gets 20 and racks up assists. His size and playmaking aren’t easily replaceable if you ship him out. And no deal will likely make up his production. The podcast suggests neither Bill or Jason are opposed to shaking up our core. But they realistically review it’s tough to replace Jake.
- arichardson22

I have no issues with trading anyone on the roster, but I don't want a Bob Clarke trade where you make a trade for the sake of making a trade. If you want to make a trade for the sake of it, I'm sure you could trade Voracek straight up for a 7th round pick...but I don't think that makes the team better in the present or future.

Pierre McGuire and Mike Milbury cast 20 votes each. E4 Cassidy getting this award is a joke.

Surely....

Jake’s production the last 7 years ranks amongst elite winger (and forwards) company. Guys like Aho, Tarasenko, Kessel. We need to stop saying he needs to score more goals bc never in his career has he been a goal scorer. He consistently gets 20 and racks up assists. His size and playmaking aren’t easily replaceable if you ship him out. And no deal will likely make up his production. The podcast suggests neither Bill or Jason are opposed to shaking up our core. But they realistically review it’s tough to replace Jake.
- arichardson22

Well making up his point production is about the team making it up. See my post above on why i move him. Not really worried about making up his points. His points havent helped this team advance. So with all those positives about him he should get a ncie haul then....

Does there ever come a time when teams need to move on from players who have been here for a long time and they haven't really done much winning (regardless of the reason). Do players become stagnant despite putting up good individual numbers?
Or do you just keep riding it out hoping and praying something from within will change?

At what point after how many coaches do say maybe its time to move some players?
- login

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can't just move on from players and that's it. If they are moving on from them, hopefully there is a plan in place to help this team in both the short term and long term.

I would imagine they would still want to remain competitive and just go full rebuild mode.

There is a pretty neck and neck argument for Couturier and Bergeron. We’re the Flyers, so Bergeron.
- SuperSchennBros

Here is the Flyers history with Awards with most recent Flyers winner. Pretty sad.

Rocket Richard - Never
Norris- Never
Calder- Never
President's Trophy- Never
Lady Byng - Never
Hart- Lindros 1995
Vezina- Hextall 1987
Selke- Poulin 1987
Jack Adams- Barber 2000

Only one trophy really matters, and it's been forever for that as well.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but you can't just move on from players and that's it. If they are moving on from them, hopefully there is a plan in place to help this team in both the short term and long term.

I would imagine they would still want to remain competitive and just go full rebuild mode.
- Pelle31Forever

Well of course the GM better have a plan. Removing jake imo isnt going to keep them from being competitive. Sometimes it is just better to go in another direction imo.

Yes I cant see the GM for lack of a better word taking a step back and rebuilding/reloading.

Well of course the GM better have a plan. Removing jake imo isnt going to keep them from being competitive. Sometimes it is just better to go in another direction imo.

Yes I cant see the GM for lack of a better word taking a step back and rebuilding/reloading.
- login

Who is taking Jake's spot?

Who is taking Jake's spot?
- Pelle31Forever

Up to the GM to figure that out. There are players available in free agency to help fill the void and depends on what the return is for a trade that may allow you to make other moves. It can be addressed.

I know the coach can't be faulted for the GM giving him a good/bad lineup, but I think Cassidy has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. Deepest team in the league with arguably the top line in the NHL, a top-5 defense, and a bonafide stud in goal.

Not saying AV should 100% have won, I just think Cassidy had a much easier time than the other 2 finalists.
- jmatchett383

I agree with your sentiment here.

@login:

So if you trade away Jake, and you don't care about his points are you good with missing the playoffs for the next two years?

That was the decision Hextall ultimately made when he traded B Schenn. If Hexy didn't get fired we would have not have been in the playoffs this year. AV and the moves Fletch made put them in the spot we are at, one win from ECF.

Trading Jake sets this team back if you don't replace him with quality players that can contribute right away. jakes quote is really pure gold...he is damned either way in many fans eyes...guys like him and his skill set and size are rare...not sure why most people don't see that.

Up to the GM to figure that out. There are players available in free agency to help fill the void and depends on what the return is for a trade that may allow you to make other moves. It can be addressed.
- login

This reads like an argument for the sake of the argument.

I know the coach can't be faulted for the GM giving him a good/bad lineup, but I think Cassidy has one of the easiest jobs in the NHL. Deepest team in the league with arguably the top line in the NHL, a top-5 defense, and a bonafide stud in goal.

Not saying AV should 100% have won, I just think Cassidy had a much easier time than the other 2 finalists.
- jmatchett383

ditto. I thought Torts and AV would be very close leaders with Torts taking it home for dragging decimated team to the PO.