RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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Erik Karlsson had big defensive shortcomings - but I don't think that anyone would argue that (pre injury) he wasn't a #1D - MaximusAurelius
Yup and so does Brent Burns.
This happendes in Toronto. Bryan McCabe was just the WORST defensive DMan and most overpaid NHL player..except he wasn't..and the moment he got traded no one said it again |
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RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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Put OEL in Toronto and see if people view him as good the past years years as they have. |
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RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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John Carlson is not that good defensively either FYI |
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I heard Mats Sundin calls him from time to time to tell him he knows what he is going through. - Atomic Wedgie
Funny, because my follow up thoughts regarding that comment were 100% about how little this organization learned from the Sundin era. |
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John Carlson is not that good defensively either FYI - RogerRoeper
You do an absurdly ridiculous amount of whining about how players are perceived outside of Toronto for someone who clearly doesn't watch hockey outside of Toronto. |
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oldstyle
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Just outside the asylum, ON Joined: 08.19.2013
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how much is Barzal, Pulock and Toews going to cost?
and who is the Isls bad contract they would want to move out? - senstroll
That Beatle John guy has a pretty bad rap... |
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Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
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It's Trotz no doubt. - RogerRoeper
But it was Lehner.... |
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Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
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I'm pissed that a few of us have to keep saying this.
FFS, he was injured throughout this year. - Atomic Wedgie
He’s never been very good in our zone defending. IMO |
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RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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But it was Lehner.... - Garnie
Lehner is fantastic no doubt. I gave Trotz tons of praise last year. |
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RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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You do an absurdly ridiculous amount of whining about how players are perceived outside of Toronto for someone who clearly doesn't watch hockey outside of Toronto. - joel878
Except I do.
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Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
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Put OEL in Toronto and see if people view him as good the past years years as they have. - RogerRoeper
Arizona are a team with better D then the Leafs too and another coach who coaches more defensively. |
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Except I do. - RogerRoeper
So the hockey part is up for debate but the whining isn't?
Gotcha. |
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RogerRoeper
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Toronto, ON Joined: 03.27.2007
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Arizona are a team with better D then the Leafs too and another coach who coaches more defensively. - Garnie
And they've done so amazingly well. What has OEL ever done to get that contract or acclaim? |
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GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
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Speak for yourself......
Savard
Tanev
or
Hamonic
Dillon
Not
Vatanen and Demelo 🤮 - mr.sir
Of those 3, I'd take the one you pukey emojied.
I'd still take Pietrangelo over 2 lesser guys, though. |
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Scabeh
Montreal Canadiens |
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Location: The Slovakian Jagr, QC Joined: 02.25.2007
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I heard Mats Sundin calls him from time to time to tell him he knows what he is going through. - Atomic Wedgie
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Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
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And they've done so amazingly well. What has OEL ever done to get that contract or acclaim? - RogerRoeper
Played on a poop team for years, but all their D compared to ours is a better group. Not sure there would be a worse group then this years bunch with the injuries etc. |
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dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Space for Rent Joined: 08.30.2006
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Thanks, thought as much!
Saw a bunch of Holl talk earlier and wasn't sure if his M-NTC would make him have to be protected or not. - mjones242
I though they did but people have said no. So I guest they don't have to protect him.
What IF he has Seattle's on his no trade list?
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Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
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And they've done so amazingly well. What has OEL ever done to get that contract or acclaim? - RogerRoeper
Made his goalies look elite I guess is his acclaim.😎 |
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Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: avid reader of the daily douche news Joined: 03.14.2014
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And they've done so amazingly well. What has OEL ever done to get that contract or acclaim? - RogerRoeper
his team made the playoffs this year.
he gambles too much out there. a better version of barrie, but not an $8m player. |
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GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
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Not underrated in the league, but on message boards from fans he is. He is one of the best dmen in the league, and he's a right shot dman. He's exactly what the Leafs need.
Id take him over two $4.5M players any day. I dont think he leaves the Blues, but id love to have him. - Archaic
Agreed |
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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Im not going to be pissed if we sign Pietrangelo. He's an amazing player, an excellent fit... Who could be chapped over that?
I just think there's a better route.
And it's the 'should be decent enough' that comes after that makes me go that secondary route. 'next TDL'.
I don't want to (frank) around with the blueline anymore, we've seen decades of patchwork solutions with the premise being there will be room to address the shortcomings down the road. There never is and it never does. - joel878
Rielly, Petro, and Muzzin would form an incredible core for the defense that the Leafs could, hopefully, count on for several years.
I don't like the idea of riding Rielly with a 2nd pairing defender who has no business being on an elite team's 1st pair.
Remember, Jones and Werenski were playing 30+ mins a night in the playoffs and they were dominant. Savard followed with 25mins (which Muzzin can more than handle) and then Gavrikov, a rookie, was playing 23mins.
Columbus did not get bounced from the playoffs because of poor D. They have 3 guys who are excellent defenders and they ride that first pair hard. CBJ got bounced because they lacked the scoring depth to get over the hurdle (something the Leafs do have).
So yeah, I think Holl/Lehtonen/(player to be traded for later) should be decent enough as a 4D.
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And they've done so amazingly well. What has OEL ever done to get that contract or acclaim? - RogerRoeper
it becomes more and more obvious that you never watched any hockey outside of the leafs... he's in the same category as Rielly - bit of a different type of player, but definitely better defensively.
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mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Pretentious Beer Snob, ON Joined: 06.22.2015
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I though they did but people have said no. So I guest they don't have to protect him.
What IF he has Seattle's on his no trade list?
- dmnted
That is what I'm not sure about. Can a player with a M-NTC list Seattle or is there a specific rule against them doing that?
I suppose the Leafs would simply try to trade Holl to one of the team's not on his list if he reject Seattle. |
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GreatGigInTheSky
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: "Yeah, Garth is a tool"- Garf, ON Joined: 06.12.2017
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I wouldn't, just based on the idea that our blueline as a whole is in such disarray. He's only one player, and he can't play the entire game.
I think we've seen the same premise play out at forward, you can stack the top line all you want... If the bottom lines can't cut it it's all for nothing.
A team needs balance to be successful in this league. There are no teams going deep that are stacked on the top end and weak throughout the rest of the lineup, these teams are reliable regardless which line and pairing is on the ice.
His contract will be to restrictive given the makeup of this team as well, they just can't add another high end contract that probably won't age well and have the flexibility to roll with the punches over the next few years.
Toronto's blueline has been awful for years, they need two guys far more than they need one. - joel878
He can't, you're right, but the Leafs do already have two very good d-men in Rielly and Muzzin. So with the addition of Pietrangelo, the 3 of them combined do play an entire game.
That's why I'm on the side of Pietrangelo > 2 lesser guys. |
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dmnted
Toronto Maple Leafs |
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Location: Space for Rent Joined: 08.30.2006
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If Leafs would add 2 new d-man on that top4 (was was proposed/discussed), it would be Muzzin that would be exposed.
Surely a deal can be worked out with Seattle as well in order for Leafs to keep the four d-men.
btw - Leafs also could opt to protect 8 skaters instead of 7fw, 3d -- e.g. in my example Rielly - Savard - Muzzin - Leddy & Matthews - Tavares - Marner - Hyman. (willy traded) - MaximusAurelius
Muzzin has mnc so he needs to be protect |
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