Rielly with Pietrangelo would be incredible, though. And Muzzin can make anyone look good playing with him. Look no further than Holl.

Have the kids and new guy learn and get better on the 3rd pairing.
- GreatGigInTheSky

If it happens and it works I'm all in.

For me, it's just to representative of years past. As in, ignore glaring weak spots and assume the names at the top of the list will make up for it.

I don't want to do that anymore, I'd rather buck the trend and go a more dependable route with less weak spots we blindly ignore.

Just my opinion though. 🤷‍♂️

CBJ would have to add major pieces to be a true contender -- they need a star forward. They're in the same predicament as we are but in reverse.

Nylander would be the domino to fall to allow the Leafs to balance their defense and forward groups with Petro.

Rielly is pretty great but he needs a legit top pairing guy to play with to give him some relief.

I get the whole addition by subtraction Barrie/Ceci angle... but I'm not convinced that Pesce/DeMelo (as an example) really puts this team over-the-top like a Petro can.
- mjones242

Wasnt Rielly's best year with Hainsey?
Just get him a reliable defensive guy, one that Rielly will be comfortable knowing where he is all the time.

CBJ probably isn't the best reference.

The year before they had Panarin and Duchene up front... They had an on point Bobrovsky between the pipes.

That beast mode top pair didn't carry them through...
- joel878

Another team coached to play D 1st and help their tender.

Where is holl?
Dubi loves holl....for 4 more years.
- Fakepartofme

Gone to whichever team wants him. Hell, even include him in the hypothetical Nylander trade. That makes it a lot easier.

He just needs a stay at home guy, as old as Hainsey was at least he knew where to be in his own zone. We just need a younger version....whoever that’s going to be. And we need Rielly to be healthy and not hobbling around out there like an 80 year old.
- Garnie

Yes... But I still think they can give Rielly better, and follow up with two pairs that won't get blown up and make what he's done on the ice redundant.

If it happens and it works I'm all in.

For me, it's just to representative of years past. As in, ignore glaring weak spots and assume the names at the top of the list will make up for it.

I don't want to do that anymore, I'd rather buck the trend and go a more dependable route with less weak spots we blindly ignore.

Just my opinion though. 🤷‍♂️
- joel878

Im on board with this as well.
Would prefer two quality top 4 guys over Pietra, but if we get Pietra then cool.
But our forward group will be depleted as a result.

Toronto does have a great Pride and santa claus parade.
Hoping the Raps get another shot at having a parade.

there are possibilities.
- Fakepartofme

I've always loved the Santa Claus parade.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/c...rostitute-remark-1.159579

Gone to whichever team wants him. Hell, even include him in the hypothetical Nylander trade. That makes it a lot easier.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Done.
I dont see Dubie doing that, but Im fine with it.

Yes... But I still think they can give Rielly better, and follow up with two pairs that won't get blown up and make what he's done on the ice redundant.
- joel878

Let’s see who it is. If it’s another D that plays the same style it won’t be better I don’t think. Vlasic 5 years ago would be nice, have you finished your time machine?

You look at Columbus, definitely beast mode top pair. I'm looking at the Dallas and Tampa's of the league.

Tampa always had Hedman. They've had moderate success with plugging in the Girardi's etc., they didn't look fully there until they built 3 dependable pairs... Even with all that offense up front.

Teams are making it deep by not having their eggs in one basket.

And I'm saying this without factoring in the off ice aspect of signing Pietrangelo. I do not think his contract will age well, giving a damn near 30 year old a max term deal is going to have ramifications even without adding his cap hit to a team that already has to many big ticket contracts. It's not going to be a good look when Rielly has to extend either.
- joel878

The problem is that the Leafs currently do have all of their eggs in one basket: 4 forwards making 40M+. Why not dial that back by eliminating Nylander and adding Petro?

Tampa has a lot of depth spread across 4 lines, a pretty deep D core (Hedman, Serge, McD, Bogosian, Shatty), and a perennial Vezina candidate goalie. They're also in cap hell so they're better damn well win it this year.

Dallas has Heiskenan, Lindell, and Klingberg and plenty of forward depth. They're also benefactors of having 2 solid goalies in a tandem.

I'm not sure what the pushback is on having 1 of the 4 contracts on the Leafs being Petro. Sacrifice BillyNy and you have a "beast mode" top pair and still have an excellent forward group.

Anyway, probably spinning wheels here. I really think the Leafs would be idiots to pass on adding Petro, but I'm also just a simple armchair-GM.

EDIT: Also, on Petro's contract not necessarily aging well. Ryan Suter is making 7M+ and, at 35, is still very effective and durable. Why should Petro be any different?

Let’s see who it is. If it’s another D that plays the same style it won’t be better I don’t think. Vlasic 5 years ago would be nice, have you finished your time machine?
- Garnie

hjlmarsson still plays a real steady, simple and reliable game.

Wasnt Rielly's best year with Hainsey?
Just get him a reliable defensive guy, one that Rielly will be comfortable knowing where he is all the time.
- Fakepartofme

Did you notice how deep the Leafs made it into the playoffs with Hainsey as his partner?

If it happens and it works I'm all in.

For me, it's just to representative of years past. As in, ignore glaring weak spots and assume the names at the top of the list will make up for it.

I don't want to do that anymore, I'd rather buck the trend and go a more dependable route with less weak spots we blindly ignore.

Just my opinion though. 🤷‍♂️
- joel878

Pietrangelo is a top 5 D-man in the league, in my opinion. So that alone makes the Leafs better. He can play high 20's and into the 30's a night. It also pushes other guys down the depths chart with less ice time.

He most likely won't come to the Leafs, but I do think it'd be the best way to improve the team.

Your way of 2 guys is much more likely to happen. I just hope they get good players.

The problem is that the Leafs currently do have all of their eggs in one basket: 4 forwards making 40M+. Why not dial that back by eliminating Nylander and adding Petro?

Tampa has a lot of depth spread across 4 lines, a pretty deep D core (Hedman, Serge, McD, Bogosian, Shatty), and a perennial Vezina candidate goalie. They're also in cap hell so they're better damn well win it this year.

Dallas has Heiskenan, Lindell, and Klingberg and plenty of forward depth. They're also benefactors of having 2 solid goalies in a tandem.

I'm not sure what the pushback is on having 1 of the 4 contracts on the Leafs being Petro. Sacrifice BillyNy and you have a "beast mode" top pair and still have an excellent forward group.

Anyway, probably spinning wheels here. I really think the Leafs would be idiots to pass on adding Petro, but I'm also just a simple armchair-GM.
- mjones242

For me... It's because I think that outlook totally acknowledges the issue at hand, and pretends that amplifying it is a solution.

This is total speculation, so maybe I'm off here... But I think Pietrangelo costs the leafs 2.5 million more than Nylander.

If the goal is to shift Nylander's money to the point that absolutely, I'm all in. But to alleviate the whole to much money tied up in to few guys situation... That means finding a 5-6 million dollar solution and reallocating that additional money to the bottom 6.

Shifting it to the blueline and adding millions to it just amplifies an already existing problem, and it does so with the added kicker of investing that money in someone 6 years older with what I feel will be significantly more term.

It's like thinking you have to much money on a few different credit cards, and pretending switching the TD one to a Scotia card with a higher interest rate, and plugging more money onto it is going to alleviate the debt load.

hjlmarsson still plays a real steady, simple and reliable game.
- Tumbleweed

He's also got himself a NMC and, likely, isn't going anywhere next season. Though maybe he might waive it if he recognizes the stench that is the current and future state of the ARZ organization?

This guy cracks me up.
Great chef, too funny.

https://twitter.com/matty.../1306986550669070336?s=19

Done.
I dont see Dubie doing that, but Im fine with it.
- Fakepartofme

Neither do I, unfortunately. But it'd be great if it happened.

If the other team thinks Holl is good, it could even get the Leafs more in the trade.

Did you notice how deep the Leafs made it into the playoffs with Hainsey as his partner?
- mjones242

Ya, but that had nothing to do with hainsey.
Im not saying bring back hainsey, just give rielly a reliable defensive partner.

Pietrangelo is a top 5 D-man in the league, in my opinion. So that alone makes the Leafs better. He can play high 20's and into the 30's a night. It also pushes other guys down the depths chart with less ice time.

He most likely won't come to the Leafs, but I do think it'd be the best way to improve the team.

Your way of 2 guys is much more likely to happen. I just hope they get good players.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Yes we all may have a preference. If we can get to the end goal of being able to watch a team that isn't complete and total poop defensively for the first time in a generation... We all win.

For me... It's because I think that outlook totally acknowledges the issue at hand, and pretends that amplifying it is a solution.

This is total speculation, so maybe I'm off here... But I think Pietrangelo costs the leafs 2.5 million more than Nylander.

If the goal is to shift Nylander's money to the point that absolutely, I'm all in. But to alleviate the whole to much money tied up in to few guys situation... That means finding a 5-6 million dollar solution and reallocating that additional money to the bottom 6.

Shifting it to the blueline and adding millions to it just amplifies an already existing problem, and it does so with the added kicker of investing that money in someone 6 years older with what I feel will be significantly more term.

It's like thinking you have to much money on a few different credit cards, and pretending switching the TD one to a Scotia card and plugging more money onto it is going to alleviate the debt load.
- joel878

I fail to see any issues with having a balance of 4-5 players making premium money who are your core. Diversifying your portfolio is an excellent financial strategy and the Leafs do not have a diverse portfolio.

Pay 4-5 players, spread across the forward and defense groups, top dollars and fill the gaps on the roster with cheaper options. You can rotate those "filler" roster spots from season to season while relying on your elite core.

Im on board with this as well.
Would prefer two quality top 4 guys over Pietra, but if we get Pietra then cool.
But our forward group will be depleted as a result.
- Fakepartofme

samesies..

If we can add someone like Pesce via a trade and sign someone like DeMelo, that would better for the depth..

While adding Pietrangelo would be fantastic, it would mean that Holl is still in the top 4...
I think Holl is better suited as a 5-6 guy

Ya, but that had nothing to do with hainsey.
Im not saying bring back hainsey, just give rielly a reliable defensive partner.
- Fakepartofme

And I'm saying this team needs a stud defender -- not miscast 2nd pairing guys playing hard minutes.

samesies..

If we can add someone like Pesce via a trade and sign someone like DeMelo, that would better for the depth..

While adding Pietrangelo would be fantastic, it would mean that Holl is still in the top 4...
I think Holl is better suited as a 5-6 guy
- PatC80

Completely agree.
Holl cannot be in the top 4 on regular basis.
5-6 is perfect for now.

Pietrangelo is a top 5 D-man in the league, in my opinion. So that alone makes the Leafs better. He can play high 20's and into the 30's a night. It also pushes other guys down the depths chart with less ice time.

He most likely won't come to the Leafs, but I do think it'd be the best way to improve the team.

Your way of 2 guys is much more likely to happen. I just hope they get good players.
- GreatGigInTheSky

Even though, he'll play 30+ minutes a game, we'd still have to play two other d-pairings, and Holl would still be in the top 4.

I do really like Pietrangelo a lot, but the Leafs need defensive depth more.. If Pietrangelo signs here and gets injured, then we are stuck having the same issue, which is lack of depth.

And I'm saying this team needs a stud defender -- not miscast 2nd pairing guys playing hard minutes.
- mjones242

I agree.
But, it just might not occur now that dubie has put half the money on 4 forwards.