Sign Pietrangelo.

Rielly-Dermott
Sandin-Pietrangelo
Muzzin-Holl
Lehtonen

3 solid D pairings.


Make the bottom-6 forward group more defensive minded. Even if they don’t score, they at least won’t get scored on either.
- Steven_Seagull

trade Willie for Parayko.
trade Dermott for Leddy.

Rielly -- Parayko
Muzzin - Leddy
Sandin - Liljegren
Lehtonen
Holl 8th

trade Willie for Parayko.
trade Dermott for Leddy.

Rielly -- Parayko
Muzzin - Leddy
Sandin - Liljegren
Lehtonen
Holl 8th
- MaximusAurelius

Blues seem to have decided on Parayko over Pietrangelo. I doubt he’s going anywhere.

Blues seem to have decided on Parayko over Pietrangelo. I doubt he’s going anywhere.
- Canada Cup

I guess that's a very strong supporting argument for the opinion that Leafs should not be going for Pietrangelo.

If not Parayko, Leafs need to consider other options at teams in financial difficulty (cash or capspace) (Arizona, Ottawa, Florida etc.) -- in order to get a trade done (Nylander for a D-man)

Another leafs AP article

https://twitter.com/Magic.../1308448863464947713?s=19
- Fakepartofme

ok read the article, and I understand the point they are making, but the part about Star Culture I dont really agree with. Yes in the 5 game series against CBJ the Leafs didnt get a lot of production from the bottom players, but they got hit in the face with hot goalies and shot like 2% at 5v5...different teams/series creates different matchups where one player looks lost and then suddenly a star. you see it everywhere.

Also on this point

Take a look at the teams in this year’s Stanley Cup Finals. Even with Tyler Seguin underperforming, they have players stepping up. Even with Jamie Benn, Alexander Radulov, Miro Heiskanen, and John Klingberg performing, their supporting cast is still going off. Guys like Joe Pavelski and Roope Hintz are stepping up to the plate, and Denis Gurianov and Joel Kiviranta picked an insane time to breakout, arguably having their best performances of their young careers in these playoffs.

this ignores that bo those teams already have a Heiskanen and Hedman...Elite difference making #1 D

The leafs have Rielly, but he is not in that catagory imo.

anyways, I am fine with what the Leafs decide to do, go after him or not. but something has to be done

ok read the article, and I understand the point they are making, but the part about Star Culture I dont really agree with. Yes in the 5 game series against CBJ the Leafs didnt get a lot of production from the bottom players, but they got hit in the face with hot goalies and shot like 2% at 5v5...different teams/series creates different matchups where one player looks lost and then suddenly a star. you see it everywhere.

Also on this point



this ignores that bo those teams already have a Heiskanen and Hedman...Elite difference making #1 D

The leafs have Rielly, but he is not in that catagory imo.

anyways, I am fine with what the Leafs decide to do, go after him or not. but something has to be done
- senstroll

on your point re the Leafs-CBJ series; it wasn't as if it Korpisalo was the sole factor in the series. Leafs were shooting more, but at almost no point (apart from the come-back 3minutes) Leafs were completely outplaying Columbus.
CBJ made sure the shots were from low danger areas. (if someone has data to provide me wrong, please do so -- but to my recollection, the CBJ never looked 'under siege' and losing control apart from those minutes in game 4).

Columbus' style was to have Leafs keep puck possession in a 'controlled way' -- but CBJ was most of the time 'in control' and it wasn't like Korpisalo was standing on his head (a la Halak vs Washington 6-8 years ago in playoffs).

on your point re the Leafs-CBJ series; it wasn't as if it Korpisalo was the sole factor in the series. Leafs were shooting more, but at almost no point (apart from the come-back 3minutes) Leafs were completely outplaying Columbus.
CBJ made sure the shots were from low danger areas. (if someone has data to provide me wrong, please do so -- but to my recollection, the CBJ never looked 'under siege' and losing control apart from those minutes in game 4).

Columbus' style was to have Leafs keep puck possession in a 'controlled way' -- but CBJ was most of the time 'in control' and it wasn't like Korpisalo was standing on his head (a la Halak vs Washington 6-8 years ago in playoffs).
- MaximusAurelius

let me dig into the stats, my memory is already fading on that.

But, I wonder how much of a diff it makes if the Leafs are able to have Muzzin and AP for games 3, 4 and 5

on your point re the Leafs-CBJ series; it wasn't as if it Korpisalo was the sole factor in the series. Leafs were shooting more, but at almost no point (apart from the come-back 3minutes) Leafs were completely outplaying Columbus.
CBJ made sure the shots were from low danger areas. (if someone has data to provide me wrong, please do so -- but to my recollection, the CBJ never looked 'under siege' and losing control apart from those minutes in game 4).

Columbus' style was to have Leafs keep puck possession in a 'controlled way' -- but CBJ was most of the time 'in control' and it wasn't like Korpisalo was standing on his head (a la Halak vs Washington 6-8 years ago in playoffs).
- MaximusAurelius

Shots didn't feel dangerous. Kind of like what was going on with Vegas. They put a (frank) ton of pucks on the net, but most were pedestrian.

So...the stats tell me the Leafs were full value for a win....but didnt win

at 5v5 Leafs were outscored 3-10. while having High danger chance advantage 48-33 (naturalstattrick.com)
thats some serious goalie horseshoe

Shots didn't feel dangerous. Kind of like what was going on with Vegas. They put a (frank) ton of pucks on the net, but most were pedestrian.
- AdamFrench

that's exactly my recollection.. it was as if CBJ exactly had the Leafs where they wanted them. it felt the series was men vs boys..

So...the stats tell me the Leafs were full value for a win....but didnt win

at 5v5 Leafs were outscored 3-10. while having High danger chance advantage 48-33 (naturalstattrick.com)
thats some serious goalie horseshoe


- senstroll

that's interesting - to my recollection, the CBJ had much more 'dangerous scoring chances' (quite a few 1 on 1s for example during the first games!) -- how are the 'dangerous scoring chances' calculated? I assume simply by areas from the ice where shots were taken?

ok read the article, and I understand the point they are making, but the part about Star Culture I dont really agree with. Yes in the 5 game series against CBJ the Leafs didnt get a lot of production from the bottom players, but they got hit in the face with hot goalies and shot like 2% at 5v5...different teams/series creates different matchups where one player looks lost and then suddenly a star. you see it everywhere.

Also on this point



this ignores that bo those teams already have a Heiskanen and Hedman...Elite difference making #1 D

The leafs have Rielly, but he is not in that catagory imo.

anyways, I am fine with what the Leafs decide to do, go after him or not. but something has to be done
- senstroll

Another article on the Athletic runs through comps (22 comparable who have had similar projections as AP to age 30) and the summary conclusions are:
- elite performance for 3 more years
- 1st pairing performance for the next 3 years
-age 36/37 year (the last year) might be a bigger risk of decline.

I'm with you - I'm ok either way. Unlike us KD won't be making any decisions in a vacuum.

that's interesting - to my recollection, the CBJ had much more 'dangerous scoring chances' (quite a few 1 on 1s for example during the first games!) -- how are the 'dangerous scoring chances' calculated? I assume simply by areas from the ice where shots were taken?
- MaximusAurelius

pretty much...I know its not a perfect way to do it.. not all shots from the same location are equal.

Another article on the Athletic runs through comps (22 comparable who have had similar projections as AP to age 30) and the summary conclusions are:
- elite performance for 3 more years
- 1st pairing performance for the next 3 years
-age 36/37 year (the last year) might be a bigger risk of decline.

I'm with you - I'm ok either way. Unlike us KD won't be making any decisions in a vacuum.
- The Law

I think if Durant wants to come here he really helps the D.

Rielly Petro
Muzzin Durant
Holl Byfuglien

Another article on the Athletic runs through comps (22 comparable who have had similar projections as AP to age 30) and the summary conclusions are:
- elite performance for 3 more years
- 1st pairing performance for the next 3 years
-age 36/37 year (the last year) might be a bigger risk of decline.

I'm with you - I'm ok either way. Unlike us KD won't be making any decisions in a vacuum.
- The Law

assuming a 7 year deal, if you get 3 elite years to start..then drops off...well that is what they need.

if you have to start making tough decisions 4 seasons from now, then fine. it may well be time to rebuild. that would be 10 years from when Shanny was hired. if they win, awesome..if not..try a new group

I think if Durant wants to come here he really helps the D.

Rielly Petro
Muzzin Durant
Holl Byfuglien
- Byfuglien Ate Me

Big Right handed D man,, prolly good with the tender gear on as well.

Big Right handed D man,, prolly good with the tender gear on as well.
- bixll

Finally our answer to Chara

I think if Durant wants to come here he really helps the D.

Rielly Petro
Muzzin Durant
Holl Byfuglien
- Byfuglien Ate Me

If you're putting Durant on the ice you HAVE to play him with BUF ...imagine those two standing beside each other.

assuming a 7 year deal, if you get 3 elite years to start..then drops off...well that is what they need.

if you have to start making tough decisions 4 seasons from now, then fine. it may well be time to rebuild. that would be 10 years from when Shanny was hired. if they win, awesome..if not..try a new group
- senstroll

I also think people are way too jumpy. The "core" of the Caps didn't win until 8 years after being "assembled." Sometimes it happens early (Blackhawks...guess you can argue Pens the first time), sometimes it takes time and tweaks...Kings and Blues etc. Sometimes it just never happens.

I'd love them to get AP and have a 25 minute a night top pairing that is legitimately a pain for any team in the league to match, but if it doesn't happen and they need to languish and grow their own new defenders, then it is what it is.

If you're putting Durant on the ice you HAVE to play him with BUF ...imagine those two standing beside each other.
- The Law

Yes Guy.

Now we are solving the D problems

assuming a 7 year deal, if you get 3 elite years to start..then drops off...well that is what they need.

if you have to start making tough decisions 4 seasons from now, then fine. it may well be time to rebuild. that would be 10 years from when Shanny was hired. if they win, awesome..if not..try a new group
- senstroll

Agreed. And the comps played out better than that. Can AP give you Suter/Gio trajectory? If you believe he does then he gives you top pairing performance for 6 years.

Tough call ...can't strip the team bare and can't sign him at any cost but if he can make it work then I'm ok with the risk.

Maritimers' say, the storm is a wussy... Pffft. A little rain, a little wind....

Kind of disappointing. Teddy can (frank) off

I also think people are way too jumpy. The "core" of the Caps didn't win until 8 years after being "assembled." Sometimes it happens early (Blackhawks...guess you can argue Pens the first time), sometimes it takes time and tweaks...Kings and Blues etc. Sometimes it just never happens.

I'd love them to get AP and have a 25 minute a night top pairing that is legitimately a pain for any team in the league to match, but if it doesn't happen and they need to languish and grow their own new defenders, then it is what it is.
- AdamFrench

imo entertainment value of Leafs have been dropping over the course of last 3-4 years though. from a really good 16-17 season with a young team under babcock (after being one of the worst teams the season before) to an even better 17-18 season, after that things dropped off, and to me personally had provided less entertainment value (due to the main issues not being addressed by management -- it was like groundhog day watching the same things happen over and over again)

I also think people are way too jumpy. The "core" of the Caps didn't win until 8 years after being "assembled." Sometimes it happens early (Blackhawks...guess you can argue Pens the first time), sometimes it takes time and tweaks...Kings and Blues etc. Sometimes it just never happens.

I'd love them to get AP and have a 25 minute a night top pairing that is legitimately a pain for any team in the league to match, but if it doesn't happen and they need to languish and grow their own new defenders, then it is what it is.
- AdamFrench

Tampa too.

But, I wouldn't view a move for AP as a "we have to win now" move. It's a move to acquire an elite defensemen which, as history shows us, is a must have. He's older than you'd like but you've got to look hard at it if:
1 you believe he has 5-6 top pairing years left; and
2 you've decided that acquiring a young elite dman is impossible.

Maritimers' say, the storm is a wussy... Pffft. A little rain, a little wind....

Kind of disappointing. Teddy can (frank) off
- bixll

I survived Juan ....Teddy's a wuss.

Maritimers' say, the storm is a wussy... Pffft. A little rain, a little wind....

Kind of disappointing. Teddy can (frank) off
- bixll

Even Teddy can’t get into the Maritime Bubble