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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs nearly absent from NHL Award voting
Author Message
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:39 AM ET
I survived Juan ....Teddy's a wuss.
- The Law



Juan was far more destructive.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:40 AM ET
Even Teddy can’t get into the Maritime Bubble
- Byfuglien Ate Me



LOL... Teddy refused the 14 day wait.
Leafs43
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Sep 23 @ 8:41 AM ET
Tampa too.

But, I wouldn't view a move for AP as a "we have to win now" move. It's a move to acquire an elite defensemen which, as history shows us, is a must have. He's older than you'd like but you've got to look hard at it if:
1 you believe he has 5-6 top pairing years left; and
2 you've decided that acquiring a young elite dman is impossible.

- The Law


Yes, it seems pretty impossible.

Who's he last one to be traded? Jones? Can't think of one before him.

senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:45 AM ET
I also think people are way too jumpy. The "core" of the Caps didn't win until 8 years after being "assembled." Sometimes it happens early (Blackhawks...guess you can argue Pens the first time), sometimes it takes time and tweaks...Kings and Blues etc. Sometimes it just never happens.

I'd love them to get AP and have a 25 minute a night top pairing that is legitimately a pain for any team in the league to match, but if it doesn't happen and they need to languish and grow their own new defenders, then it is what it is.

- AdamFrench


also imo, it also removes all or most of the excuses. the D is not good enough..I dont think you can say that with AP/Muzzin/Rielly.

the complainers will still find a way to blame dubas for something...but he tried by adding the 2 biggest UFAs he could have (JT/AP)


The Law
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 01.29.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:46 AM ET
Yes, it seems pretty impossible.

Who's he last one to be traded? Jones? Can't think of one before him.

- Leafs43


Ya, can't think of many moving. Not even just elite guys but any legit first pairing types.

Jones and Hamilton ...maybe Sergachev. Theodore maybe. Chara back in the day.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:47 AM ET
Ya, can't think of many moving. Not even just elite guys but any legit first pairing types.

Jones and Hamilton ...maybe Sergachev. Theodore maybe. Chara back in the day.

- The Law




Shea Weber.... Even Bobby Orr was traded.
The Law
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 01.29.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:49 AM ET
Shea Weber even Bobby Orr was traded.
- bixll


I thought about him and ya, gotta agree.

He's elite and that one was weird but has totally worked out for the Habs.

I guess Subban too. He was pretty elite at the time
senstroll
Location: New Fan, Needs to watch Ballet, ON
Joined: 02.22.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:50 AM ET
imo entertainment value of Leafs have been dropping over the course of last 3-4 years though. from a really good 16-17 season with a young team under babcock (after being one of the worst teams the season before) to an even better 17-18 season, after that things dropped off, and to me personally had provided less entertainment value (due to the main issues not being addressed by management -- it was like groundhog day watching the same things happen over and over again)
- MaximusAurelius


to me thats more just about expectations of the teams..it was fun when we didnt care if they won.

also, I assume its much easier on the players..no pressure. just go have fun




Leafs43
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Sep 23 @ 8:50 AM ET
Ya, can't think of many moving. Not even just elite guys but any legit first pairing types.

Jones and Hamilton ...maybe Sergachev. Theodore maybe. Chara back in the day.

- The Law


Forgot about Hamilton. Sergachev I don't think was an established NHLer when he was traded, just a really good prospect.

Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Right behind you, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 23 @ 8:52 AM ET
Not making the playoffs would be a down season...
- PatC80

Ummm...they didnt make the playoffs
Leafs43
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Sep 23 @ 8:52 AM ET
Shea Weber.... Even Bobby Orr was traded.
- bixll


Ya but we were talking about "young" top defenseman. I took that as 25 and under. Very few move.

bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:53 AM ET
I thought about him and ya, gotta agree.

He's elite and that one was weird but has totally worked out for the Habs.

I guess Subban too. He was pretty elite at the time

- The Law



Not sure I have ever seen a player go over a cliff faster the Subban.
Adam French
Atlanta Thrashers
Location: add all u want but u will never win. torotno curse is alive. basketbal is king. another 52 years bef
Joined: 04.06.2011

Sep 23 @ 8:53 AM ET
Yes, it seems pretty impossible.

Who's he last one to be traded? Jones? Can't think of one before him.

- Leafs43

Most of the time you need to draft them, or luck into a late bloomer (which happens more with dmen than forwards to be fair). Or...trade with Nashville.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 8:54 AM ET
Ya but we were talking about "young" top defenseman. I took that as 25 and under. Very few move.
- Leafs43


Fine. I missed the young part. I was think top D men that have been traded.
Archaic
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Waterloo, ON
Joined: 01.12.2011

Sep 23 @ 8:57 AM ET
Blues seem to have decided on Parayko over Pietrangelo. I doubt he’s going anywhere.
- Canada Cup


Agreed. Even if they resign Pietro, they are keeping Parayko. Its just a pipe dream, and Leddy sucks, so there is that.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Trump? He was just a coffee boy. None of us knew him., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 23 @ 8:58 AM ET
Tampa too.

But, I wouldn't view a move for AP as a "we have to win now" move. It's a move to acquire an elite defensemen which, as history shows us, is a must have. He's older than you'd like but you've got to look hard at it if:
1 you believe he has 5-6 top pairing years left; and
2 you've decided that acquiring a young elite dman is impossible.

- The Law


The third if is that you’ve concluded that you can only win with an elite dman and if you’ve made that assumption that no one in your organization has the capacity to develop into one.

To me the debate about AP is really about “great to have” versus “must have”. As good as he is, I’m not convinced that they can only improve their defence enough to win by getting him. That’s particularly true if the cost is to severely weaken the rest of the team now and going forward.

We are forgetting how good Rielly is and overestimating what is needed to make that pairing really good. There are other guys who could achieve that without doing as much collateral damage.

I get that elite talent doesn’t come along very often and everyone gets really excited about the new toy and if there’s a way to do it without causing too much harm I’m all for it. I just haven’t heard a lot of realistic proposals to get us there.
The Law
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 01.29.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:04 AM ET
The third if is that you’ve concluded that you can only win with an elite dman and if you’ve made that assumption that no one in your organization has the capacity to develop into one.

To me the debate about AP is really about “great to have” versus “must have”. As good as he is, I’m not convinced that they can only improve their defence enough to win by getting him. That’s particularly true if the cost is to severely weaken the rest of the team now and going forward.

We are forgetting how good Rielly is and overestimating what is needed to make that pairing really good. There are other guys who could achieve that without doing as much collateral damage.

I get that elite talent doesn’t come along very often and everyone gets really excited about the new toy and if there’s a way to do it without causing too much harm I’m all for it. I just haven’t heard a lot of realistic proposals to get us there.

- Canada Cup


All fair points.

I discussed the Rielly variable yesterday too. If they believe he can get there then they've already got that elite guy and should/could build the supporting cast around him.

For me it's got nothing to do with shiny new toys. I believe that you need an anchor back there. Rielly hasn't been that to date. Maybe he needs more support or maybe he doesn't have it in him and AP would be a big upgrade.

Either way I don't know ....Dubas will have that all measured and mapped out.
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Right behind you, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 23 @ 9:05 AM ET
"Signing Alex Pietrangelo would ignore the Leafs’ biggest problems."

The first line of the tweet is already wrong.

Signing him literally solves the Leafs biggest problem. A RD. And not just any RD, an all World RD.

- GreatGigInTheSky

But did you read the article and explanation?
Adam French
Atlanta Thrashers
Location: add all u want but u will never win. torotno curse is alive. basketbal is king. another 52 years bef
Joined: 04.06.2011

Sep 23 @ 9:05 AM ET
The third if is that you’ve concluded that you can only win with an elite dman and if you’ve made that assumption that no one in your organization has the capacity to develop into one.

To me the debate about AP is really about “great to have” versus “must have”. As good as he is, I’m not convinced that they can only improve their defence enough to win by getting him. That’s particularly true if the cost is to severely weaken the rest of the team now and going forward.

We are forgetting how good Rielly is and overestimating what is needed to make that pairing really good. There are other guys who could achieve that without doing as much collateral damage.

I get that elite talent doesn’t come along very often and everyone gets really excited about the new toy and if there’s a way to do it without causing too much harm I’m all for it. I just haven’t heard a lot of realistic proposals to get us there.

- Canada Cup

Or...and hear me out here. We're the Caps with Mike Green and still think he's the one when there is a John Carlson coming up that is needed instead.
Leafs43
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: ON
Joined: 06.16.2010

Sep 23 @ 9:08 AM ET
All fair points.

I discussed the Rielly variable yesterday too. If they believe he can get there then they've already got that elite guy and should/could build the supporting cast around him.

For me it's got nothing to do with shiny new toys. I believe that you need an anchor back there. Rielly hasn't been that to date. Maybe he needs more support or maybe he doesn't have it in him and AP would be a big upgrade.

Either way I don't know ....Dubas will have that all measured and mapped out.

- The Law


I would be fine if we miss out on Pietro if the Leafs can get a real partner for Rielly. The guy has played with scrubs his whole career.

I just like the idea of getting a top defensman for "nothing".
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Right behind you, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 23 @ 9:13 AM ET
I would be fine if we miss out on Pietro if the Leafs can get a real partner for Rielly. The guy has played with scrubs his whole career.

I just like the idea of getting a top defensman for "nothing".

- Leafs43

Get a partner for rielly and Muzzin
Move out holl and possibly dermott
Lehtonen and sandin on 3rd, or keep dermott and have him and Lehtonen as the 3rd pair
Aaron_85
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 04.22.2014

Sep 23 @ 9:14 AM ET
The third if is that you’ve concluded that you can only win with an elite dman and if you’ve made that assumption that no one in your organization has the capacity to develop into one.

To me the debate about AP is really about “great to have” versus “must have”. As good as he is, I’m not convinced that they can only improve their defence enough to win by getting him. That’s particularly true if the cost is to severely weaken the rest of the team now and going forward.

We are forgetting how good Rielly is and overestimating what is needed to make that pairing really good. There are other guys who could achieve that without doing as much collateral damage.

I get that elite talent doesn’t come along very often and everyone gets really excited about the new toy and if there’s a way to do it without causing too much harm I’m all for it. I just haven’t heard a lot of realistic proposals to get us there.

- Canada Cup


"great to have" and "must have" is a good way of saying it.
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 23 @ 9:23 AM ET
All fair points.

I discussed the Rielly variable yesterday too. If they believe he can get there then they've already got that elite guy and should/could build the supporting cast around him.

For me it's got nothing to do with shiny new toys. I believe that you need an anchor back there. Rielly hasn't been that to date. Maybe he needs more support or maybe he doesn't have it in him and AP would be a big upgrade.

Either way I don't know ....Dubas will have that all measured and mapped out.

- The Law


Rielly is an interesting one... Some fans think he's a legit #1, some fans think he's a #2 D-Man and some (on twitter that claim to be Leafs fans) believe he is a 3-4 guy.. With Pietrangelo, the consensus is that he is a legit top pairing guy. That's is what we need.
DrunkenCanuck
Vancouver Canucks
Location: A Bunch of Yahoos in front of Queens Park, ON
Joined: 07.14.2009

Sep 23 @ 9:24 AM ET
Not sure I have ever seen a player go over a cliff faster the Subban.
- bixll


Didn’t you witness it first hand with Phaneuf?
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 23 @ 9:27 AM ET
Didn’t you witness it first hand with Phaneuf?
- DrunkenCanuck



Ya, I guess. Dion was never in the talks for the Norris. But his career went in the toilet after he got married. You are correct.
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