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Forums :: Blog World :: Mike Augello: Leafs will have competition for Pietrangelo in free agent market
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gergeswillems
Detroit Red Wings
Location: Malkin wants to be The Man, ON
Joined: 02.01.2016

Sep 24 @ 10:23 AM ET
The biggest unknown and most interesting part of this possibility is the cost.

For AP the cost is cap space. They'd have to find about 5.5 minimum.
Johnsson traded and replaced by Robertson nets you 2.5. Can they find a starting goalie for 2 million per year? Can they move Kerfoot and replace him with good vet willing to take 1.5. Or some kind of combination.

Subject to some Dubas magic I'm not loving that strip the club bare option.

For me the best way to find that cap space to sign AP is replacing Willie with a young top 6 fwd on an ELC.

Pesce and Savard (both) is a fantasy. Think of the assets they'd have to move.

- The Law

To fit Petro (9 mil AAV) and keep Willy and Freddy... Dubas would likely have to say goodbye to Johnsson, Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott and Holl. Lehtonen would be your #4 defenseman. Sandin and Liljegren would be the third pair.
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:25 AM ET
I didn't pick Lou for the award. You can try to prove me wrong again today, but I didn;t vote for Lou.
- bixll

It helps to read the entire quote before writing a blustering retort.

This was a key part of my reply (to you):

"(not saying it's necessarily yours)"
MaximusAurelius
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Joseph Woll - starting goalie Leafs 2020-2021 season
Joined: 04.23.2012

Sep 24 @ 10:28 AM ET


Pretty sure the old boys club doesn't want to give any recognition to the young buck who is GMing the team that is at the centre of the hockey universe.

God forbid they provide any detailed answers as to why a particular winner received votes. It's all bs.

Not that I necessarily think Dubas would be deserving of it this year, but the anti-Dubie brigade/sentiment is certainly amusing.

- mjones242


or maybe the GMs aren't that impressed by Dubas.
Jeff Gorton got 2 votes - NYR is in the same category as the Leafs.
excuses and excuses - Dubas is just a mediocre GM.
TheMussel
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Toronto, ON
Joined: 09.24.2013

Sep 24 @ 10:28 AM ET
The world is going to hell but I'm glad football is back.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Trump? He was just a coffee boy. None of us knew him., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 24 @ 10:28 AM ET
it's a grey area.
there is some language in the CBA on trades - where the league can disallow a trade if they perceive it's being done to specifically circumvent the cap.

- MaximusAurelius


But you said it couldn’t happen because only STL can talk to AP. You said problem is tampering, not cap circumvention.

There is nothing that prevents the Blues from giving Toronto permission to talk to one of its players. Curious to see how hard it is for you to acknowledge you’re flat out wrong.
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:29 AM ET
To fit Petro (9 mil AAV) and keep Willy and Freddy... Dubas would likely have to say goodbye to Johnsson, Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott and Holl. Lehtonen would be your #4 defenseman. Sandin and Liljegren would be the third pair.
- gergeswillems

I'm thinking Freddie would likely be traded and a more affordable (cap-wise) goalie option would replace him. This could potentially mitigate Holl being a casualty.
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:29 AM ET
or maybe the GMs aren't that impressed by Dubas.
Jeff Gorton got 2 votes - NYR is in the same category as the Leafs.
excuses and excuses - Dubas is just a mediocre GM.

- MaximusAurelius

Nah.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Sep 24 @ 10:30 AM ET
or maybe the GMs aren't that impressed by Dubas.
Jeff Gorton got 2 votes - NYR is in the same category as the Leafs.
excuses and excuses - Dubas is just a mediocre GM.

- MaximusAurelius


bergevin should have won.

got aho signed to a good team friendly deal.
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 24 @ 10:30 AM ET
But you said it couldn’t happen because only STL can talk to AP. You said problem is tampering, not cap circumvention.

There is nothing that prevents the Blues from giving Toronto permission to talk to one of its players. Curious to see how hard it is for you to acknowledge you’re flat out wrong.

- Canada Cup


good luck with that... You have a better chance of winning the lottery than Max ever admitting to being wrong.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 24 @ 10:33 AM ET
It helps to read the entire quote before writing a blustering retort.

This was a key part of my reply (to you):

"(not saying it's necessarily yours)"

- mjones242



Come on...
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Trump? He was just a coffee boy. None of us knew him., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 24 @ 10:34 AM ET
To fit Petro (9 mil AAV) and keep Willy and Freddy... Dubas would likely have to say goodbye to Johnsson, Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott and Holl. Lehtonen would be your #4 defenseman. Sandin and Liljegren would be the third pair.
- gergeswillems


And with flat cap, they’re in trouble with Hyman and Lehtonen next year and need to work out Rielly, Sandin and Liljegren the year after.

Nobody has any idea of how the prospect of a 2-3 flat cap and no idea of how it will grow after that will make things really complicated for a while.
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 24 @ 10:34 AM ET
I'm thinking Freddie would likely be traded and a more affordable (cap-wise) goalie option would replace him. This could potentially mitigate Holl being a casualty.
- mjones242


Trade Freddy to Detroit for Madison Bowey(RFA but would be decent depth), Luke Glendening and a 2nd rd pick.. The Wings have 3 picks in the second round.
Canada Cup
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Trump? He was just a coffee boy. None of us knew him., ON
Joined: 07.06.2007

Sep 24 @ 10:34 AM ET
good luck with that... You have a better chance of winning the lottery than Max ever admitting to being wrong.
- PatC80


I don’t expect to but I like to watch the contortions.
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:36 AM ET
Come on...
- bixll

Your reply was full of some bluster... admit it.

I wasn't saying you voted for Lou. I wasn't saying that you thought Lou should have won for the Isles advancing to the Conference Finals.

And then you went full bluster on me.
Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Sep 24 @ 10:36 AM ET
Or you know, trade Marner
- PatC80


1) see if the kings would want marner for vilardi + moar picks/prospects.

2) sign tanev, gudas and toffoli for $13Mish.

3) Play bruins in the 1st round. still lose in 7 games.
PatC80
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: I would never let my children play hockey. The risk of getting drafted by Edmonton is too high", ON
Joined: 08.11.2011

Sep 24 @ 10:37 AM ET
I don’t expect to but I like to watch the contortions.
- Canada Cup


just be careful, he'll insult you because you're right.
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 24 @ 10:38 AM ET
Your reply was full of some bluster... admit it.

I wasn't saying you voted for Lou. I wasn't saying that you thought Lou should have won for the Isles advancing to the Conference Finals.

And then you went full bluster on me.

- mjones242



Oh please..
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:38 AM ET
And with flat cap, they’re in trouble with Hyman and Lehtonen next year and need to work out Rielly, Sandin and Liljegren the year after.

Nobody has any idea of how the prospect of a 2-3 flat cap and no idea of how it will grow after that will make things really complicated for a while.

- Canada Cup

Lehtonen and Lillybust probably won't be commanding major salary upgrades. I'm kind of doubting Sandin will either. And it's not like the Leafs couldn't move pieces like Holl if they needed to find some salary.

Hyman... yeah, I think he's gonzo.

Re-signing Rielly will take some serious roster/contractual gymnastics.

The great thing though: cap hell awaits almost every team.
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Right behind you, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 24 @ 10:38 AM ET
I'm convinced that Lou won because Bettman wanted to take a shot at the Leafs.. So, he "encouraged" Lou's victory
- PatC80

oh boy.
and why would he want to do that?

Tumbleweed
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: avid reader of the daily douche news
Joined: 03.14.2014

Sep 24 @ 10:38 AM ET
And with flat cap, they’re in trouble with Hyman and Lehtonen next year and need to work out Rielly, Sandin and Liljegren the year after.

Nobody has any idea of how the prospect of a 2-3 flat cap and no idea of how it will grow after that will make things really complicated for a while.

- Canada Cup


wouldn't be wrong to trade hyman this year. pre-corona, he was probably looking at +4M on his next deal.
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:39 AM ET
Oh please..
- bixll

... partial bluster?
bixll
Location: New Glasgow, NS
Joined: 09.04.2008

Sep 24 @ 10:39 AM ET
... partial bluster?
- mjones242



* leaves for lunch *
Fakepartofme
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Right behind you, ON
Joined: 09.20.2010

Sep 24 @ 10:40 AM ET
People seem really butt hurt that lou won some foolish award?
The Law
Toronto Maple Leafs
Joined: 01.29.2008

Sep 24 @ 10:41 AM ET
To fit Petro (9 mil AAV) and keep Willy and Freddy... Dubas would likely have to say goodbye to Johnsson, Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott and Holl. Lehtonen would be your #4 defenseman. Sandin and Liljegren would be the third pair.
- gergeswillems


For 9 milly they'd need to find 6 milly. If they wanted to keep Willie and Freddy too? yikes.

So Johnsson for Robertson gets you 2.5. Engvall for a guy making 750k gets you another 500k. Dermott isn't even in the existing math. Holl replaced with a guy making 700k gets you another 1.3. So you've still got to find another 1.7 in savings. Kerfoot out and replaced by a guy making no more than 1.8 milly.

I don't like it. And then you've got the same game next year when Hyman and others want a raise. Or you also replace them with cheap filler. Not good.

If you're keeping the big 4 then you've got to find savings in net ...have to.

For me though, I think for AP you've got to move WN or MM (and MM ain't happening IMHO).
mjones242
Toronto Maple Leafs
Location: Grimsby, ON
Joined: 06.22.2015

Sep 24 @ 10:41 AM ET
* leaves for lunch *
- bixll

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