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Thomas Drance just published a good read on The Athletic about what the Canucks can learn from a very well run Tampa Bay Lightning franchise, if you get a chance, read it. - Pacificgem
Something DCT said on here a few years back still stands true to me. He said if you are trying to copy then you already lost.
The big thing I always took from the TB franchise was something you repeated earlier. They had a fanbase that didn't care. They had no pressure for years and years and could take a long slow rebuild without heat coming from the fans.
Players want to go to Florida because of no tax , no pressure and a beautiful place to live. Playing in Canada is very much different.
The biggest thing to me that Canucks can do is turn off the outside volume and continue on as they are doing. This is going to be a very good team very soon (Two years)
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Marwood
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Location: Cumberland, BC Joined: 03.18.2010
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“Just as a means of illustration, the Lightning model, currently, allocates 14.7 percent of their cap space to their bottom-six and depth forward Mitchell Stephens (to flesh out their 23-man roster). With that allocation, the Lightning iced a bottom-six capable of outscoring their opponents.
This past season Vancouver allocated 24.8 percent of their cap space to the bottom-six forwards by contrast (their bottom-six by ice time, plus Zack MacEwen to flesh out their 23-man roster) and iced a bottom-six that was easily outscored at even-strength.”
- Pacificgem
Doesn't Drance live in his parents basement?
Just another armchair GM. |
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Linden4Ever, BC Joined: 07.01.2007
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Something DCT said on here a few years back still stands true to me. He said if you are trying to copy then you already lost.
The big thing I always took from the TB franchise was something you repeated earlier. They had a fanbase that didn't care. They had no pressure for years and years and could take a long slow rebuild without heat coming from the fans.
Players want to go to Florida because of no tax , no pressure and a beautiful place to live. Playing in Canada is very much different.
The biggest thing to me that Canucks can do is turn off the outside volume and continue on as they are doing. This is going to be a very good team very soon (Two years) - VANTEL
Drance mentioned this, which holds some merit, at least with me. The organization needs stability.
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“The makeup of the Lightning’s key decision makers has been relatively static, from Cooper to BriseBois — who has been with the team since 2010 — to BriseBois’ three assistant general managers, including amateur scouting guru Al Murray, who have all been with the organization in some capacity for a minimum of eight years. Through disappointment, through failure, they’ve had a plan and they’ve stuck with it.
On the ice, the Lightning identified good players and stuck by them. Even that, however, starts in the boardroom, where the organization has identified good people, empowered them and given them rope to fail. In doing so, they’ve ultimately succeeded.
It’s a stark contrast with what you find when you evaluate the recent history of Canucks hockey operations. Mike Gillis was fired after missing the playoffs once in his tenure. And since then it’s fair to say the halls of power off of Griffiths Way have been characterized by rupture and turnover. Just since 2015, the club has cycled through a variety of talented front office apparatchiks from Trevor Linden, to Laurence Gilman, to Lorne Henning, to Eric Crawford, to Judd Brackett.
It’s one thing for talented people to move on to greater areas of responsibility, as Manny Malhotra recently did, departing the organization for a bench role with the Toronto Maple Leafs. That’s not what’s typically occurred in Vancouver in recent years.
With Pettersson, Hughes, Bo Horvat and Brock Boeser in the fold in Vancouver now, expectations will be higher in the years to come. Improvement isn’t always linear though, and there will likely be tough times ahead. Sweeps, choke jobs, playoff disappointments, playoff misses; these are facts of life for even the smartest, best-run organizations with the most talented players. The Lightning are proof of it.
When the time comes — and if the Canucks do things the right way, those tough times will come — will an organization that hasn’t tended to be patient, be as stubborn as the Lightning have been for the past decade?” |
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Marwood
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Location: Cumberland, BC Joined: 03.18.2010
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Drance mentioned this, which holds some merit, at least with me. The organization needs stability.
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“The makeup of the Lightning’s key decision makers has been relatively static, from Cooper to BriseBois — who has been with the team since 2010 — to BriseBois’ three assistant general managers, including amateur scouting guru Al Murray, who have all been with the organization in some capacity for a minimum of eight years. Through disappointment, through failure, they’ve had a plan and they’ve stuck with it.
On the ice, the Lightning identified good players and stuck by them. Even that, however, starts in the boardroom, where the organization has identified good people, empowered them and given them rope to fail. In doing so, they’ve ultimately succeeded.
It’s a stark contrast with what you find when you evaluate the recent history of Canucks hockey operations. Mike Gillis was fired after missing the playoffs once in his tenure. And since then it’s fair to say the halls of power off of Griffiths Way have been characterized by rupture and turnover. Just since 2015, the club has cycled through a variety of talented front office apparatchiks from Trevor Linden, to Laurence Gilman, to Lorne Henning, to Eric Crawford, to Judd Brackett.
It’s one thing for talented people to move on to greater areas of responsibility, as Manny Malhotra recently did, departing the organization for a bench role with the Toronto Maple Leafs. That’s not what’s typically occurred in Vancouver in recent years.
With Pettersson, Hughes, Bo Horvat and Brock Boeser in the fold in Vancouver now, expectations will be higher in the years to come. Improvement isn’t always linear though, and there will likely be tough times ahead. Sweeps, choke jobs, playoff disappointments, playoff misses; these are facts of life for even the smartest, best-run organizations with the most talented players. The Lightning are proof of it.
When the time comes — and if the Canucks do things the right way, those tough times will come — will an organization that hasn’t tended to be patient, be as stubborn as the Lightning have been for the past decade?” - Pacificgem
Interesting, thanks. |
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Drance mentioned this, which holds some merit, at least with me. The organization needs stability.
——————————————————
“The makeup of the Lightning’s key decision makers has been relatively static, from Cooper to BriseBois — who has been with the team since 2010 — to BriseBois’ three assistant general managers, including amateur scouting guru Al Murray, who have all been with the organization in some capacity for a minimum of eight years. Through disappointment, through failure, they’ve had a plan and they’ve stuck with it.
On the ice, the Lightning identified good players and stuck by them. Even that, however, starts in the boardroom, where the organization has identified good people, empowered them and given them rope to fail. In doing so, they’ve ultimately succeeded.
It’s a stark contrast with what you find when you evaluate the recent history of Canucks hockey operations. Mike Gillis was fired after missing the playoffs once in his tenure. And since then it’s fair to say the halls of power off of Griffiths Way have been characterized by rupture and turnover. Just since 2015, the club has cycled through a variety of talented front office apparatchiks from Trevor Linden, to Laurence Gilman, to Lorne Henning, to Eric Crawford, to Judd Brackett.
It’s one thing for talented people to move on to greater areas of responsibility, as Manny Malhotra recently did, departing the organization for a bench role with the Toronto Maple Leafs. That’s not what’s typically occurred in Vancouver in recent years.
With Pettersson, Hughes, Bo Horvat and Brock Boeser in the fold in Vancouver now, expectations will be higher in the years to come. Improvement isn’t always linear though, and there will likely be tough times ahead. Sweeps, choke jobs, playoff disappointments, playoff misses; these are facts of life for even the smartest, best-run organizations with the most talented players. The Lightning are proof of it.
When the time comes — and if the Canucks do things the right way, those tough times will come — will an organization that hasn’t tended to be patient, be as stubborn as the Lightning have been for the past decade?” - Pacificgem
Gillis was fired (missing the playoffs once) because took a top team and drove it to the bottom.
Even though they made the playoffs after 2011 they had one win only in 2012 , zero wins in 2013 and did not make the playoffs in 2014. He had the team spiraling downhill.
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Linden4Ever, BC Joined: 07.01.2007
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Something DCT said on here a few years back still stands true to me. He said if you are trying to copy then you already lost.
The big thing I always took from the TB franchise was something you repeated earlier. They had a fanbase that didn't care. They had no pressure for years and years and could take a long slow rebuild without heat coming from the fans.
Players want to go to Florida because of no tax , no pressure and a beautiful place to live. Playing in Canada is very much different.
The biggest thing to me that Canucks can do is turn off the outside volume and continue on as they are doing. This is going to be a very good team very soon (Two years) - VANTEL
Also, I believe since the inception of the salary cap, although it’s always been a huge factor, is an organizations ability to draft well. Every team since the inception of the salary cap that’s won a championship has drafted extremely well when the opportunity presented itself.
Of course you’ve gotta do many other things well but for me it all starts with drafting, which the Canucks are now doing. |
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So, what you're saying is that you & I are helping Benning to become a better GM. - Marwood
I am sure Benning wakes up every morning and thanks his lucky stars for fans like you
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Linden4Ever, BC Joined: 07.01.2007
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Gillis was fired (missing the playoffs once) because took a top team and drove it to the bottom.
Even though they made the playoffs after 2011 they had one win only in 2012 , zero wins in 2013 and did not make the playoffs in 2014. He had the team spiraling downhill. - VANTEL
I don’t think that’s the case at all, according to reports Mike Gillis wanted to start rebuilding the organization but Francesco Aquilini wanted no part of that, he wanted to continue pushing for the Stanley Cup and playoff money. |
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I don’t think that’s the case at all, according to reports Mike Gillis wanted to start rebuilding the organization but Francesco Aquilini wanted no part of that, he wanted to continue pushing for the Stanley Cup and playoff money. - Pacificgem
Maybe Aquilini looked at Gillis's drafting ability and said "Fuk No" to a rebuild.
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Linden4Ever, BC Joined: 07.01.2007
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Maybe Aquilini looked at Gillis's drafting ability and said "Fuk No" to a rebuild. - VANTEL
Umm....no, he’s a greedy arrogant (frank) who wasn’t a very good owner. I think much like Benning he understands the process better now than he did ten years ago. At least in my opinion. |
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RealityChecker
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: I stay away from the completely crazy rumours on the internet.I will occasionally debunk them-Eklund Joined: 04.18.2010
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Something DCT said on here a few years back still stands true to me. He said if you are trying to copy then you already lost.
The big thing I always took from the TB franchise was something you repeated earlier. They had a fanbase that didn't care. They had no pressure for years and years and could take a long slow rebuild without heat coming from the fans.
Players want to go to Florida because of no tax , no pressure and a beautiful place to live. Playing in Canada is very much different.
The biggest thing to me that Canucks can do is turn off the outside volume and continue on as they are doing. This is going to be a very good team very soon (Two years) - VANTEL
this is awesome.
management decides to go "re-tool on the fly" and it's the fanbase's fault.
apparently the fans can't stand a rebuild....
but this idiotic plan devised by benning is still going to take a decade!
it's the fans fault. it's the media's fault. it's everyone's fault. but don't you dare lay any of it on inept management. |
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Umm....no, he’s a greedy arrogant (frank) who wasn’t a very good owner. I think much like Benning he understands the process better now than he did ten years ago. At least in my opinion. - Pacificgem
How would you respond if the top person in your organization came up to you and said we are going to stop making hundreds of millions a year and full arenas and start all over again ? Again this is not Tampa where no one cared and no one was attending beforehand .
As nice as it would have been it did not make sense from an owners perspective.
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this is awesome.
management decides to go "re-tool on the fly" and it's the fanbase's fault.
apparently the fans can't stand a rebuild....
but this idiotic plan devised by benning is still going to take a decade!
it's the fans fault. it's the media's fault. it's everyone's fault. but don't you dare lay any of it on inept management. - RealityChecker
Did you enjoy this year? Did the team improve?
How many teams won the cup this year.
I get it there are seven of you here that hate Benning
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RealityChecker
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: I stay away from the completely crazy rumours on the internet.I will occasionally debunk them-Eklund Joined: 04.18.2010
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How would you respond if the top person in your organization came up to you and said we are going to stop making hundreds of millions a year and full arenas and start all over again ? Again this is not Tampa where no one cared and no one was attending beforehand .
As nice as it would have been it did not make sense from an owners perspective. - VANTEL
the owner is a billionaire. he understands that you have to make an investment, let it grow and then reap the benefits. he just wasn't convinced it was needed because the fat moron thinks he knows hockey. he just found a hockey guy as dumb as him.
he didn't want a re-build and he found a lackey that had the same vision. they both thought they could do build a contender without rebuilding. they were wrong. |
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Pacificgem
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Linden4Ever, BC Joined: 07.01.2007
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How would you respond if the top person in your organization came up to you and said we are going to stop making hundreds of millions a year and full arenas and start all over again ? Again this is not Tampa where no one cared and no one was attending beforehand .
As nice as it would have been it did not make sense from an owners perspective. - VANTEL
I think a good owner would sit down and listen to the top people in his organization and ask questions, like why do you think this is the best course of action. Now I don’t know what happened, I’m only guessing, but knowing Aquilini’s temperament around Vancouver with his businesses, I fully suspect he had an emotional response and only saw dollar signs.
Vantel, you don’t have to die on every hill for the Canucks, their ownership, their GM, etc. it’s ok to be constructive with your opinions and say they’ve made mistakes. Which they have! |
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RealityChecker
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: I stay away from the completely crazy rumours on the internet.I will occasionally debunk them-Eklund Joined: 04.18.2010
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Did you enjoy this year? Did the team improve?
How many teams won the cup this year.
I get it there are seven of you here that hate Benning - VANTEL
what sweet fcuk all does that even mean? dallas made it past the canucks. does this mean that they are better and have a brighter future?
i get it that there are several of you here that will support benning no matter what. it doesn't mean that you know what the he!! you're talking about.
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the owner is a billionaire. he understands that you have to make an investment, let it grow and then reap the benefits. he just wasn't convinced it was needed because the fat moron thinks he knows hockey. he just found a hockey guy as dumb as him.
he didn't want a re-build and he found a lackey that had the same vision. they both thought they could do build a contender without rebuilding. they were wrong. - RealityChecker .
That is bull .
That fat moron had this group at the sixth last team still playing for the asterisk cup this year.
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RealityChecker
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: I stay away from the completely crazy rumours on the internet.I will occasionally debunk them-Eklund Joined: 04.18.2010
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That is bull .
That fat moron had this group at the sixth last team still playing for the asterisk cup this year. - VANTEL
according to vantel, only one team wins the stanley cup. the rest are just losers.
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I think a good owner would sit down and listen to the top people in his organization and ask questions, like why do you think this is the best course of action. Now I don’t know what happened, I’m only guessing, but knowing Aquilini’s temperament around Vancouver with his businesses, I fully suspect he had an emotional response and only saw dollar signs.
Vantel, you don’t have to die on every hill for the Canucks, their ownership, their GM, etc. it’s ok to be constructive with your opinions and say they’ve made mistakes. Which they have! - Pacificgem
I can be as loud as I want just like the anti Benning group in here. We could all talk about how much pot to put in the brownies but I am sure there are other websites for that all though I sometimes question if I clicked on the right link.
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according to vantel, only one team wins the stanley cup. the rest are just losers. - RealityChecker
Ricky Bobby
I am just the opposite I am very happy with this years results and and the progress, then one of the anti Benning guys posted a set of steak knives. |
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Marwood
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Location: Cumberland, BC Joined: 03.18.2010
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the owner is a billionaire. he understands that you have to make an investment, let it grow and then reap the benefits. he just wasn't convinced it was needed because the fat moron thinks he knows hockey. he just found a hockey guy as dumb as him.
he didn't want a re-build and he found a lackey that had the same vision. they both thought they could do build a contender without rebuilding. they were wrong. - RealityChecker
...and like some of folks in here, they won't admit it.
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Retinalz
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Vancouver, BC Joined: 01.31.2015
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Umm....no, he’s a greedy arrogant (frank) who wasn’t a very good owner. I think much like Benning he understands the process better now than he did ten years ago. At least in my opinion. - Pacificgem
If Gillis knew how to draft, we would have been able to remain relevant until the twins retired. The fact that he had one good NHLer under his belt with years of drafting speaks volumes. He screwed up our goalie situation, was hated by other GM's, and people only think he is a good GM because he was able to add a few minor pieces to a solid core(that existed before he even took office). Gillis was not responsible for getting us to the SCF, our drafting and trades from before his tenure did. Also, a lot of people credit him for Hamhuis, the guy was only willing to sign with Vancouver as a UFA. How can you credit a GM for signing a guy with a 1 team list?
Benning is not a great GM, but he has built a solid young core that is starting to be competitive earlier than expected. If Hughes and EP weren't as good as they are, we wouldn't even have any potential issues with Cap. This is something that could not be foreseen when LE was signed. Beagle is fine as a 4c and had 2 big goals during the playoffs for us. Roussell has done what we wanted him to do. We were better with Myers than without during the playoffs, even with the penalties. |
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RealityChecker
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: I stay away from the completely crazy rumours on the internet.I will occasionally debunk them-Eklund Joined: 04.18.2010
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Ricky Bobby
I am just the opposite I am very happy with this years results and and the progress, then one of the anti Benning guys posted a set of steak knives. - VANTEL
it's funny how you'll mention the canucks were the "top 6" but if someone mentions a non-cup winner, you'll fall back "1 winner and the rest are just losers."
it's amusing vantel type stuff. |
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LordHumungous
Vancouver Canucks |
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Location: Greetings from the Humungous. Ayatollah of rock and rolla! Joined: 08.15.2014
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But has an asterisk
No travel so it was not legit . At least I am told that. - VANTEL
Had to win 5 rounds with the pandemic thingy still going on...pretty legit. |
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If Gillis knew how to draft, we would have been able to remain relevant until the twins retired. The fact that he had one good NHLer under his belt with years of drafting speaks volumes. He screwed up our goalie situation, was hated by other GM's, and people only think he is a good GM because he was able to add a few minor pieces to a solid core(that existed before he even took office). Gillis was not responsible for getting us to the SCF, our drafting and trades from before his tenure did. Also, a lot of people credit him for Hamhuis, the guy was only willing to sign with Vancouver as a UFA. How can you credit a GM for signing a guy with a 1 team list?
Benning is not a great GM, but he has built a solid young core that is starting to be competitive earlier than expected. If Hughes and EP weren't as good as they are, we wouldn't even have any potential issues with Cap. This is something that could not be foreseen when LE was signed. Beagle is fine as a 4c and had 2 big goals during the playoffs for us. Roussell has done what we wanted him to do. We were better with Myers than without during the playoffs, even with the penalties. - Retinalz
Sutter was signed up to be the cushion for transition from when the the Twins left to when Bo matured to a top center. Shame on Benning for not foreseeing that Petterson who was not even drafted would step in and the team would immediately improve. Shame on Benning for not predicting also back then a world pandemic would make reasonable signings back then a burden.
Beagle and Roussel came at the request of the coach to be a buffer again for new players but were immediately passed.
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