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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: I Ceci a trend
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Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Oct 18 @ 4:41 PM ET
Rikki and Ruhw were a good pairing last year albeit in a small sample. I’d prefer them with McCann jank erod. But all in all I think the offseason was fine. Only time will tell anyways. If poj, Poulin, O’Connor, or maniscalco are ready and really show that in camp they will get there chance. If not bases are covered for now and if they blow jr will do jr things seeing as sully isn’t smart enough to maximize his team
- 10inchTerror

It's hard to see a defenseman make it now with 8 signed. Need a Marino type performance or them to waive Riikola.

Might be a spot for a forward since Lafferty doesn't need waivers, though there is a roster crunch if they're all healthy at once. Oh who am I kidding that will never happen.
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Oct 18 @ 4:46 PM ET
Also you gotta factor that the 4th line doesn't score at all. Hornqvist is a poor play driver at this point, but at least he still produces tangible offense. Rodrigues seems to be a wash all around of being a mediocre play driver and meh producer, and Jankowski is a defensive specialist who doesn't drive play and has a really bad offensive impact on his line mates. Has a good shot and can score goals, but if he's not scoring it himself, he's not helping the offense one bit.

I'd much prefer a line that struggles to drive play but has some offensive capability and can do alright with sheltered deployment and provide some secondary scoring, than another defensive line, given the makeup of the rest of our roster.

- Victoro311

What strikes me in that comment is McCann, Jankowski, and Hornqvist (at this age) can all be described as guys who don't drive play, have some finishing talent, and are responsible defensively. Pairing 2 with a play driver should get then to outperform their metrics as it did when Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist was a line. Not sure ERod is that guy, and play-driving is tough to predict for prospects. But you could get positive results with that formula.
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Oct 18 @ 4:51 PM ET
No, I won't name any players that are left because that's not the point. It's players that got signed AFTER he jumped so quickly to nab to fourth line players, one of which who barely kept a spot with the flames. Not every player got signed day one. Players were getting grabbed up the second, third and fourth day. I'm not saying at the end of the day he ultimately makes the same moves, but when you see all the bargain trades and signings that happened, it seems foolish to jump at two mediocre players before seeing what happens.

This is about waiting until day two or three to see what's going on.

You're seriously dense.

- Rinosaur

I don't mind those signings in a bubble. If one was signed as the 13th guy you take a chance on and one was the 3rd forward you wanted a prospect to try and beat out. They were both cheap and easily buriable and have some upside. But they needed at least one more sure thing in the top 9.

Sort of funny we found someone who hates Hornqvist so much that even you're defending him and he was never a favorite of yours. I agree with you, was ready to move on, but this made the team worse.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Oct 18 @ 4:58 PM ET
I don't mind those signings in a bubble. If one was signed as the 13th guy you take a chance on and one was the 3rd forward you wanted a prospect to try and beat out. They were both cheap and easily buriable and have some upside. But they needed at least one more sure thing in the top 9.

Sort of funny we found someone who hates Hornqvist so much that even you're defending him and he was never a favorite of yours. I agree with you, was ready to move on, but this made the team worse.

- Tojo.


I repeatedly said that as much as I want Hornqvist moved that it should only happen if it makes the team better. I still felt he brought good things to this team. He's not someone like JJ that I just wanted off the team and didn't care how.

And no, I don't mind having Erod, but him and Jankowski were probably not players that get signed so early on if not for JR, and even if they did, there are still guys on their level available. JR could simply waited and explored a little. It wouldn't have been difficult to circle around to find guys like that.

I feel like Rutherford sees players he likes and somehow thinks they're hot commodities that everyone else also wants and has beat other GMs to the punch.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Oct 18 @ 5:01 PM ET
What strikes me in that comment is McCann, Jankowski, and Hornqvist (at this age) can all be described as guys who don't drive play, have some finishing talent, and are responsible defensively. Pairing 2 with a play driver should get then to outperform their metrics as it did when Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist was a line. Not sure ERod is that guy, and play-driving is tough to predict for prospects. But you could get positive results with that formula.
- Tojo.

Hornqvist does not have near the negative impact on net offensive play that Jankowski has, so I don't think it's a comparable situation. Once the puck is established in the offensive zone, Hornqvist does a lot of good things that lead to production. Jankowski has a shot and nothing else. He's a lot like Sutter in that regard.

Also, Hornqvist isn't exactly defensively responsible. I think people assume Hornqvist is good at defense because he's a strong forechecker, but the backcheck has never really been there.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Oct 18 @ 5:02 PM ET
Remember when Sid was younger and way faster and had a lot of success playing with the skeleton on Bill Guerin? I don’t see why a slower older smarter wouldn’t have success with Kovy. But they will probably find some Simon like scrub and talk about his speed all the time.
- Grinder47

A lot of us wanted Kovy or Ryan. Maybe not both, but either would fill a need on this team.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Oct 18 @ 5:06 PM ET
A lot of us wanted Kovy or Ryan. Maybe not both, but either would fill a need on this team.
- Victoro311


I think either one would have been a great gamble. At this point I can't see them adding another forward. I imagine they are keeping that space free in case Poulin makes the team.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Oct 18 @ 5:10 PM ET
Remember when Sid was younger and way faster and had a lot of success playing with the skeleton on Bill Guerin? I don’t see why a slower older smarter wouldn’t have success with Kovy. But they will probably find some Simon like scrub and talk about his speed all the time.
- Grinder47

They should bring in Kovy.
10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Oct 18 @ 5:17 PM ET
It's hard to see a defenseman make it now with 8 signed. Need a Marino type performance or them to waive Riikola.

Might be a spot for a forward since Lafferty doesn't need waivers, though there is a roster crunch if they're all healthy at once. Oh who am I kidding that will never happen.

- Tojo.


True, but a solid camp and Injuries can get them a chance. After that it’s there’s to lose.
Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somerset, PA
Joined: 10.20.2013

Oct 18 @ 5:45 PM ET
A lot of us wanted Kovy or Ryan. Maybe not both, but either would fill a need on this team.
- Victoro311

It’s a very simple concept. I feel like GM’s are just proud and feel like it’s low hanging fruit. poop the offseason would have been way better if they just signed kovy and Chara, kept Hornqvist, and traded Murray. I have a feeling that Rutherford may be a busy man early in the season though.
Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somerset, PA
Joined: 10.20.2013

Oct 18 @ 5:47 PM ET
They should bring in Kovy.
- 668710

He doesn’t fit the “play with speed”. He’s also not a “just play” player. He actually gets emotionally invested in hockey which apparently Sullivan hates.
MaxHyjinx
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 03.03.2018

Oct 18 @ 6:26 PM ET
Remember when Sid was younger and way faster and had a lot of success playing with the skeleton on Bill Guerin? I don’t see why a slower older smarter wouldn’t have success with Kovy. But they will probably find some Simon like scrub and talk about his speed all the time.
- Grinder47


Kovy would be a solid vet to bring in. I know they want to get younger and faster, but guys like this can absolutely bring more stability to a roster.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Oct 18 @ 6:29 PM ET
It’s a very simple concept. I feel like GM’s are just proud and feel like it’s low hanging fruit. poop the offseason would have been way better if they just signed kovy and Chara, kept Hornqvist, and traded Murray. I have a feeling that Rutherford may be a busy man early in the season though.
- Grinder47

I don’t know what we have to trade anymore that can bring anything of significance that would actually help. Shocked to be saying this, but I definitely prefer your hypothetical offseason to what happened.
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Oct 18 @ 6:42 PM ET
True, but a solid camp and Injuries can get them a chance. After that it’s there’s to lose.
- 10inchTerror

Sure injuries could open the door and likely will at sone point. Teams just usually prefer to keep their depth and send down the guys who don't need waivers. Would need to be a case of a prospect kicking the door down like Marino did because it won't be an even competition.
Grinder47
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somerset, PA
Joined: 10.20.2013

Oct 18 @ 6:45 PM ET
I don’t know what we have to trade anymore that can bring anything of significance that would actually help. Shocked to be saying this, but I definitely prefer your hypothetical offseason to what happened.
- Victoro311

Can they trade next years 1st yet?
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Oct 18 @ 7:03 PM ET
Can they trade next years 1st yet?
- Grinder47

No we owe it to Billy G to complete the Zucker trade and I’m pretty sure we don’t have a second either but could be wrong.
TheGame316
Joined: 11.18.2008

Oct 18 @ 7:17 PM ET
Hornqvist is so good that the our best player and our second best player apparently do not want to play with him anymore

And those 2 guys are also generational talents, but what do they know
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Oct 18 @ 7:17 PM ET
It’s a very simple concept. I feel like GM’s are just proud and feel like it’s low hanging fruit. poop the offseason would have been way better if they just signed kovy and Chara, kept Hornqvist, and traded Murray. I have a feeling that Rutherford may be a busy man early in the season though.
- Grinder47

It's gonna be very reminiscent to the "Greg Mckegg/whatever other crap was in our bottom line" year. Unless Poulin and someone else shows up.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Oct 18 @ 7:18 PM ET
Hornqvist is so good that the our best player and our second best player apparently do not want to play with him anymore

And those 2 guys are also generational talents, but what do they know

- TheGame316

Horny trade doesn't matter, it's the forwards that was brought in to replace him that's crap.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Oct 18 @ 7:27 PM ET
Hornqvist is so good that the our best player and our second best player apparently do not want to play with him anymore

And those 2 guys are also generational talents, but what do they know

- TheGame316


What does that have to do with him playing on the third line? Last I checked players who can't hack in the top six play in the bottom six. Mind you, I wanted the Pens to move on from Hornqvist, but not if it meant the bottom six getting weaker and right now it's much weaker than who's replaced him.
TheGame316
Joined: 11.18.2008

Oct 18 @ 7:56 PM ET
What does that have to do with him playing on the third line? Last I checked players who can't hack in the top six play in the bottom six. Mind you, I wanted the Pens to move on from Hornqvist, but not if it meant the bottom six getting weaker and right now it's much weaker than who's replaced him.
- Rinosaur


Because if you want a line to have a certain identity, you can't just stick any guy there and get the results you want

Is Joe Thornton still an NHLer? Yes

Who's better for OUR 4th line given the type of hockey we want them to play? Teddy Blueger or Joe Thornton

Blueger is. Because the identity of that line is based on speed, checking and defensive awareness.

If Malkin got hurt and our 2nd line needed a center to play with Rust and Zucker, Thornton would be a better fit than Blueger because of the type of player he is

Horn is a plugger who relies on OTHER elite players to get him the puck in the dirty areas to be effective. McCann (and whoever the other winger would be) is not Elite enough to make Hornqvist effective. Hornqvist is top 6 or bust and the 2 guys who center the top 6 aren't interested. Hockey isn't come kind of universal depth chart where you just move up and down the lineup according to some ambiguous "skill rank"

The 3rd line is being moulded with a speed and hustle identity, perhaps Poulin gets his start there, maybe Poulin plays with Sid or Malkin and Zucker, Rust or Kapanen drop to the 3rd line and it will still maintain it's identity. Hornqvist doesn't check that box

It's like no one has ever seen a zone cycle just die on the tape of Hornqvist
TheGame316
Joined: 11.18.2008

Oct 18 @ 8:05 PM ET
Horny trade doesn't matter, it's the forwards that was brought in to replace him that's crap.
- 668710


You mean the 2 forwards that can be waived if they aren't working out and not count a dollar against our cap? Those guys?

I mean they aren't godlike like Tyler Ennis, but really, who is?

10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Oct 18 @ 9:25 PM ET
Sure injuries could open the door and likely will at sone point. Teams just usually prefer to keep their depth and send down the guys who don't need waivers. Would need to be a case of a prospect kicking the door down like Marino did because it won't be an even competition.
- Tojo.


If ceci and matheson are as bad as everyone here projects then rikki, Ruhw, Lee, or maniscalco shouldn’t have too much of a problem making them expendable.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Oct 18 @ 9:39 PM ET
If ceci and matheson are as bad as everyone here projects then rikki, Ruhw, Lee, or maniscalco shouldn’t have too much of a problem making them expendable.
- 10inchTerror

This doesn’t hold given that Jack Johnson got a sweater every night except for one the two seasons he spent in Pittsburgh. Matheson will be dressed. Ceci’s contract is smaller, so maybe he’s not seen as a must dress, but I’ll believe it when I see it
10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Oct 18 @ 9:49 PM ET
This doesn’t hold given that Jack Johnson got a sweater every night except for one the two seasons he spent in Pittsburgh. Matheson will be dressed. Ceci’s contract is smaller, so maybe he’s not seen as a must dress, but I’ll believe it when I see it
- Victoro311


I guess it depends on Rierden. Obviously Martin was the reason JJ was playing every night as he brought him all the way over to NY with him.
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