Michael Stuart: What do the Senators Need to be Complete?

Interesting.

What do the Senators have? In order for teams to be considered a serious contender, they need to have some variation of a core that includes.

Good goaltending.
#1 Dman who can control the pace of play.
A physical shut down Dman.
An elite speed forward that can score.
A power forward that can do damage down low and in front of the net.
#1 elite centre

On a recent TSN broadcast Thomas Chabot was the consensus pick as the #1 Dman for Canada's next Olympic team.

Few analysts doubt that Brady Tkachuk will be a top 6 power forward for the US Olympic squad.

So the questions are fairly clear.

Do the Sens have adequate goaltending?

Who is the shut down Dman?

Who is the elite speed forward?

Is there a #1 centre in their system?

If I had to pick one thing, it's a new (responsible/normal) owner. Such an individual would bridge the following gaps:

1- Stay out of the news report (negative news, that is);
2- Spend when it's time to spend;
3- Not micromanage things at the player level, and;
4- Keep their eyes on the long term picture (i.e.: work towards a new/relocated arena).

Definitely need a number one center and d partner for Chabot. But That might become Stutzle and Sanderson.

Definitely need a number one center and d partner for Chabot. But That might become Stutzle and Sanderson.
- jryan88

I agree. Sanderson was highly regarded in the first instance because he played a raw physical game.

Hopefully Stuetzle is that #1 centre. If not maybe he is an elite, speed winger that every team needs.

If I had to pick one thing, it's a new (responsible/normal) owner. Such an individual would bridge the following gaps:

1- Stay out of the news report (negative news, that is);
2- Spend when it's time to spend;
3- Not micromanage things at the player level, and;
4- Keep their eyes on the long term picture (i.e.: work towards a new/relocated arena).
- Panzer_IVA

Agree on all fronts except number 4. Easily one of the worst ideas the city has come up with. And, thankfully, a bullet we seemed to have dodged. There is no "scene" in Ottawa. There is no....walk up crowd for a -30 below zero game on a Tuesday against buffalo in February. Landsdowne should be the giant billboard of warning for another sports venue downtown...and it was mostly done right--with good people. It is now heavily in the red. It was bleeding before covid. The beautiful mall walkway boardwalk area is a ghost town.

Agree on all fronts except number 4. Easily one of the worst ideas the city has come up with. And, thankfully, a bullet we seemed to have dodged. There is no "scene" in Ottawa. There is no....walk up crowd for a -30 below zero game on a Tuesday against buffalo in February. Landsdowne should be the giant billboard of warning for another sports venue downtown...and it was mostly done right--with good people. It is now heavily in the red. It was bleeding before covid. The beautiful mall walkway boardwalk area is a ghost town.
- Octavarium

The difference is LeBretton is at centre of all rapid transit from Ottawa East, West and South. Just as important, it is the principal connection point for Gatineau transport routes. Landsdowne on the other hand is incredibly difficult to access. Yet, in the first few years when the Sens played out of the Civic Centre they packed the place. But traffic was a nightmare even for a limited maximum crowd of 9,500.

LeBretton will happen. It just makes too much sense for everyone. But, Melnyk wants a free building. This is not going to happen, but they will get to an agreement that works for everyone.

Yep Lebreton will be circled back to and eventually come to fruition.

All they need right now is to get back on the ice.

Definitely need a number one center and d partner for Chabot. But That might become Stutzle and Sanderson.

Number one center is the biggest need, IMO.

Sanderson should be able to take a lot of the pressure off Chabot, even if he winds up playing on a diff pairing(which me most likely will).

The center position is much more tenuous. A lot riding on Stutzle being able to fill that need at the NHL level. Even after that, you need to hope that Brown or Norris can fill the need for a second line center, which I'm more optimistic about.

A lot of this changes at the draft next year if they can snag one of the centers, although they may wind up taking a D-man.

Agree on all fronts except number 4. Easily one of the worst ideas the city has come up with. And, thankfully, a bullet we seemed to have dodged. There is no "scene" in Ottawa. There is no....walk up crowd for a -30 below zero game on a Tuesday against buffalo in February. Landsdowne should be the giant billboard of warning for another sports venue downtown...and it was mostly done right--with good people. It is now heavily in the red. It was bleeding before covid. The beautiful mall walkway boardwalk area is a ghost town.
- Octavarium

Put Landsdown where the Canadian Tire Centre is and see how many people go to games. Would probably be less and they would be bleeding more than they are.

It won't be a perfect downtown arena, but would be by far a better location than Kanata. I think too many people assume you are plopping a 20,000 seat stadium in a field and not doing anything else to make transit and entertainment satisfactory.

Bottom line though, the team had to win to get fans to come, no matter the location. True for every city minus Toronto or Montreal.

Put Landsdown where the Canadian Tire Centre is and see how many people go to games. Would probably be less and they would be bleeding more than they are.

It won't be a perfect downtown arena, but would be by far a better location than Kanata. I think too many people assume you are plopping a 20,000 seat stadium in a field and not doing anything else to make transit and entertainment satisfactory.

Bottom line though, the team had to win to get fans to come, no matter the location. True for every city minus Toronto or Montreal.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

Id be curious to see what the revenue situation was back when Ottawa was near the top of the league for attendance.

Or what similar numbers would look like coupled with the current TV deals they ahve.

Id be curious to see what the revenue situation was back when Ottawa was near the top of the league for attendance.

Or what similar numbers would look like coupled with the current TV deals they ahve.
- david22

Kanata works when they are competitive. They get the 4500-6000 west season ticket holders. The 4500-6000 east season ticket holders. The rest are gravy. They've ignored the other side of the river from the beginning believing every francaphone was a Habs fan. The transit is now almost done to Moodie.

A downtown rink pisses everyone off. You'll ONLY be able to get to it with transit. You'll lose the west end and east season ticket holders. They'll pray that at least some of the 200K public servants that work down there will stay and fill the barn? Nope. They go home first--and early too. Then you'll want them to hop back on a bus\train\bus\rickshaw\train to get back to the rink? Lived here my whole life. This city has winters like no where else. And some of the quirkiest citizenry on the planet. Just my opinion. Big Fail.

Kanata works when they are competitive. They get the 4500-6000 west season ticket holders. The 4500-6000 east season ticket holders. The rest are gravy. They've ignored the other side of the river from the beginning believing every francaphone was a Habs fan. The transit is now almost done to Moodie.

A downtown rink pisses everyone off. You'll ONLY be able to get to it with transit. You'll lose the west end and east season ticket holders. They'll pray that at least some of the 200K public servants that work down there will stay and fill the barn? Nope. They go home first--and early too. Then you'll want them to hop back on a bus\train\bus\rickshaw\train to get back to the rink? Lived here my whole life. This city has winters like no where else. And some of the quirkiest citizenry on the planet. Just my opinion. Big Fail.
- Octavarium

This doesn't explain the city folk having to get to the current arena is better than the current one.

Folks west of Kanata and Ottawa - They are commuting anyways from towns. Another 30 min, etc isn't that bad. You'll see some cancelations, but not nearly as many as you think. I'm from the west and most people don't see that phased by an arena move.

Folks east of Ottawa - How will they lose season tickets? A downtown arena would be closer to them. You'll probably get more season tickets from this audience.

Folks in the city - A majority of the people who live in the city, live there because they hate commuting. If some don't want to go to a game downtown, fine. They aren't going to Kanata either. But you'll get some who would rather take 30 min transit downtown instead of 1 hour transit to Kanata. Way more people to please in the city of Ottawa rather than the outskirts.

Also, you are assuming the area will only be accessible by transit. This is true to an extent because it is in the city, but there will be plans parking obviously. They aren't going to just plop an arena down and say "good luck getting to it". Or maybe they will. It's Ottawa after all.

I like this debate. To me, a downtown area just makes sense. Winters are winters anywhere in this area. Moot point. Imagine the electricity downtown during a playoff run in the springtime. Opening night in the fall. You don't get that feeling with the current arena in Kanata where you have to walk 15 minutes to your car and take another 30 minutes to get out of the place or hoping on a bus for an hour to get downtown.

Id be curious to see what the revenue situation was back when Ottawa was near the top of the league for attendance.

Or what similar numbers would look like coupled with the current TV deals they ahve.
- david22

You could put the arena in Renfrew and they could probably have decent revenue for a 1st place team like the 2000s.

I recall an article a few years ago showing revenues of teams in relation to area location and it was interesting. It was not definitive of course as team success has a play, but was interesting to see teams with longer bottom feeder standings seemed to be on the outskirts of cities rather than in the city. I can't for the life of me find it. Again, not definitive, but interesting.

Kanata works when they are competitive. They get the 4500-6000 west season ticket holders. The 4500-6000 east season ticket holders. The rest are gravy. They've ignored the other side of the river from the beginning believing every francaphone was a Habs fan. The transit is now almost done to Moodie.

A downtown rink pisses everyone off. You'll ONLY be able to get to it with transit. You'll lose the west end and east season ticket holders. They'll pray that at least some of the 200K public servants that work down there will stay and fill the barn? Nope. They go home first--and early too. Then you'll want them to hop back on a bus\train\bus\rickshaw\train to get back to the rink? Lived here my whole life. This city has winters like no where else. And some of the quirkiest citizenry on the planet. Just my opinion. Big Fail.
- Octavarium

I work downtown (normally). You're correct that people tend to leave the area once they're done work, but part of that likely that there's nothing to do. People would have a reason to stay there after work.

I've heard mixed arguments on if its actually true that people would stay downtown, patronizing the bars and restaurants though.

There is an interesting piece of land at dows lake. Use to be a whole bunch of goverment high rises that they toredown and it still a very large vacant lot. Who it owns is it for sale i dont lnow.....on the south west side of carling/preston.. train stop right there,loads of existing restraunts and bars, room for stadium and condos and casino.

I work downtown (normally). You're correct that people tend to leave the area once they're done work, but part of that likely that there's nothing to do. People would have a reason to stay there after work.

I've heard mixed arguments on if its actually true that people would stay downtown, patronizing the bars and restaurants though.
- david22

I'm not sure of the "going home" early argument either. Is the current audience working at Home Depot in Kanata until 6:50 pm to catch the 7 pm game at the Canadian Tire Centre? Not likely.

There will be a bit of shift of fans patronage, but I am not sure why you wouldn't want to cater to a downtown core rather than outskirts. Let's be honest, Kanata could have been ok, but it's been developed horribly to be fan friendly.

Just about everybody that I know that works downtown (on either side of the river) is working some form of flex hours. Would love the idea of coming in later in the day and going out for dinner and a 7:00pm game.

The idea that it is easier to leave directly from work and travel to Kanata to attend a 7:00 pm game is far more problematic. Leaving work and going home and then to the game is also highly demanding except for those fans living in the west end.

The Ottawa economy is incredibly strong and diverse. Fans response will be very strong regardless of a Kanata or downtown location. The off ice drama needs to go away and we need to focus on the fun of following a young talented team.

The only thing that would concern me before committing to a downtown move is how much in box and ticket sales would be lost from the high tech companies located in and around the Kanata business centre.

Just about everybody that I know that works downtown (on either side of the river) is working some form of flex hours. Would love the idea of coming in later in the day and going out for dinner and a 7:00pm game.

The idea that it is easier to leave directly from work and travel to Kanata to attend a 7:00 pm game is far more problematic. Leaving work and going home and then to the game is also highly demanding except for those fans living in the west end.

The Ottawa economy is incredibly strong and diverse. Fans response will be very strong regardless of a Kanata or downtown location. The off ice drama needs to go away and we need to focus on the fun of following a young talented team.

The only thing that would concern me before committing to a downtown move is how much in box and ticket sales would be lost from the high tech companies located in and around the Kanata business centre.
- spatso

That's always going to be a problem in Ottawa no matter the location. I think the Sens franchise has to be imaginative to find new ways to get box revenue. I feel there are sort of working on it with "party zones" and the "bell club seats" in the 100 section of the current building, but something could work.

Good goaltending.
#1 Dman who can control the pace of play.
A physical shut down Dman.
An elite speed forward that can score.
A power forward that can do damage down low and in front of the net.
#1 elite centre
- spatso

Personally, I'd also add quality C/D depth to the list. I think they're in good shape right now for several of those positions, plus their overall depth. But it still really bothers me that it's a major question mark around having a legitimate #1C, even if not "elite".

STRENGTH (i.e. established players in place)
Legitimate #1 D-Man - Chabot
Power Forward - Tkachuk

POTENTIAL (i.e. strong prospects in system)
Elite Speed Forward - Stutzle
Centre Depth - Norris, Brown, Greig, White
Physical Shut-Down D-Man - Sanderson
Blueline Depth - JBD, Brannstrom, Thomson, Kleven

ADEQUATE
Goaltending - Murray, Hogberg

WEAKNESS
Legitimate #1 Centre - ???

Because of my 'C' concerns, I'll confess to already looking ahead to the 2021 draft to see if there's anyone in the top-10 that might fit the bill as a #1C. Aatu Raty is of obvious note, but may be a lottery pick. Kent Johnson looks like an interesting option... last year's BCHL MVP, currently at Michigan, and seems like maybe the best pure offensive C in the draft.

Just about everybody that I know that works downtown (on either side of the river) is working some form of flex hours. Would love the idea of coming in later in the day and going out for dinner and a 7:00pm game.

The idea that it is easier to leave directly from work and travel to Kanata to attend a 7:00 pm game is far more problematic. Leaving work and going home and then to the game is also highly demanding except for those fans living in the west end.

The Ottawa economy is incredibly strong and diverse. Fans response will be very strong regardless of a Kanata or downtown location. The off ice drama needs to go away and we need to focus on the fun of following a young talented team.

The only thing that would concern me before committing to a downtown move is how much in box and ticket sales would be lost from the high tech companies located in and around the Kanata business centre.
- spatso

Maybe we can convince Shopify to buy the Sens?

I never understand why around the ctc, no body have built resto, bars, strip club, etc

That's always going to be a problem in Ottawa no matter the location. I think the Sens franchise has to be imaginative to find new ways to get box revenue. I feel there are sort of working on it with "party zones" and the "bell club seats" in the 100 section of the current building, but something could work.
- Gord_Wilson_2.0

It really doesn’t matter where the Senators play as they will never have sellouts ( 19,500 ) like they did in the past. This is due to the Liberal government changing the rules on corporate entertainment. Companies can no longer take a government employee to a game or god forbid buy them dinner and drinks. The insurance companies followed suit, claims adjusters were forbidden to go to a Senators game as a guest of a contractor. A large number of the suite holders were contractors who over night were stuck giving away tickets to staff and friends. Most have not renewed their seasons tickets. This is the reason the Senators have eliminated so many boxes to create Club Bell etc. The decision to eliminate smoking on the outside balcony also backfired badly on Melynk. Ottawa is not Toronto or Montreal, our only real chance to win a Stanley Cup will depend on an owner with deep pockets. Let’s hope Eugene is being honest on opening up his wallet in the next year or two!

It really doesn’t matter where the Senators play as they will never have sellouts ( 19,500 ) like they did in the past. This is due to the Liberal government changing the rules on corporate entertainment. Companies can no longer take a government employee to a game or god forbid buy them dinner and drinks. The insurance companies followed suit, claims adjusters were forbidden to go to a Senators game as a guest of a contractor. A large number of the suite holders were contractors who over night were stuck giving away tickets to staff and friends. Most have not renewed their seasons tickets. This is the reason the Senators have eliminated so many boxes to create Club Bell etc. The decision to eliminate smoking on the outside balcony also backfired badly on Melynk. Ottawa is not Toronto or Montreal, our only real chance to win a Stanley Cup will depend on an owner with deep pockets. Let’s hope Eugene is being honest on opening up his wallet in the next year or two!
- Barrykerr1

Good post.

Traditional marketing of sports events is being turned upside down. A bunch of years ago, multiple high profile Montreal companies were charged for tax fraud. The scheme was very simple. I bought two season tickets for promotion and marketing purposes. And, you bought two season tickets for the same purpose. Plus we added a few like minded hockey friends who also owned their own business. So on game day I gave my tickets to you, you gave tickets to Fred and Fred gave me tickets to the same game and we were all able to deduct our cost of the tickets.

I know a few companies that own boxes and they run everything above board. Every guest situation is documented, everything is transparent and the appropriate controls are in place to ensure no business owner or manager is able to benefit on an exchange or sale of tickets. I don't see it ever going back to the way it was.

I have never understood why the Sens drifted away from the family zone promotions. It was great promotion platform for companies, it was a non disputable tax deduction. And, most important, it allowed for pubic servants and others who might have a conflict of interest to legitimately purchase tickets at a significant discount.

I never understand why around the ctc, no body have built resto, bars, strip club, etc
- Crosside

Car dealerships and gas stations. Maybe a trip to Costco if your feeling like braving a walk! That's what gets the fans going before and after games!