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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: Mike Sullivan trying to spread the wealth with the new combos
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Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jan 25 @ 9:38 AM ET
I dont really like that trade either, Im a hornqvist fan but I understand why he made it. MM is a great skater, can shoot, there is potential for something there. Too bad he got injured right away and we didnt get a chance to see.
- stackthepads


But they didn’t need him. Not even a little. Why would trade for something you had a surplus of and just eat a chunk of valuable cap space that you won’t be able to free up?
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: St. John's, NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jan 25 @ 9:43 AM ET
I disagree, I think JR is doing a good job trying to squeeze that few drops out of the Sid/Geno era.
- stackthepads


I cant really get behind this comment. I think he should get credit for being active and trying but a lot of the stuff he's done has been horrible asset management. There's been an awful lot of times he's given up a lot for someone he ends up not being happy with and trading again.

I think I read the other day he's made north of 50 trades since becoming the Pen's GM...but that seemed to be too high of a number to me. Even if that's not accurate I believe him to of been the most active since becoming the Pens GM.
Hockey66
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 07.05.2019

Jan 25 @ 10:00 AM ET
I cant really get behind this comment. I think he should get credit for being active and trying but a lot of the stuff he's done has been horrible asset management. There's been an awful lot of times he's given up a lot for someone he ends up not being happy with and trading again.

I think I read the other day he's made north of 50 trades since becoming the Pen's GM...but that seemed to be too high of a number to me. Even if that's not accurate I believe him to of been the most active since becoming the Pens GM.

- MattStrat

JR ends up chasing his tail a lot. Imagine if we'd just kept Oleksiak, who is a good, cheap defenseman. Could have avoided both JJ and Matheson. Petts, Riikola, and POJ are good enough to round out the left side with great depth.

Then there's the problem with deployment. JR keeps bringing in crappy fringe players, and Sully keeps playing them in a way too high of a role and giving them too much ice time, especially in critical situations, where they predictably fail miserably.

And really, he should also be judged on giving Sully an extension after two early playoff exits, including an embarrassing sweep by a not-very-good Islanders team, where Sully got easily outcoached. Now we're stuck with him even though he is frankly one of the worst coaches in the league, IMO.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jan 25 @ 11:09 AM ET
GM's try to find that diamond in the rough. Those under the radar players. He found that in Pettersson. Many here didn't project him higher than a bottom pairing dman which is fine. Trading a bust of a prospect for a serviceable 3rd pairing dman is a solid move, but he's proven to be a legit 2nd pairing dman.

JR did it. He traded a busted asset into a valuable asset. He also got Riikola who had a rough rookie season, but then became one of the more consistent Pens' dmen last year when he actually played. A cheap above average 3rd pairing dman. He also did the best he could in the Kessel trade and got a decent NHL dman prospect who has now proven that he's ready for the NHL.

I mean, this is what you want out of a GM, right? By all standards, if we just look at that, JR did a PHENOMENAL job.

When he made the Matheson trade the Pens had the following lefty dmen on the roster: Dumo, Pettersson, JJ and Riikola. FOUR. That's FOUR LD's on the roster. JJ already had a bloated contract on the 3rd pair and he trades for ANOTHER LD on an even more bloated contract to battle for the 3rd pair?

I mean, he stated Dumo and Pettersson are going nowhere, so he consciously brought in a $4M+ dman to compete for the third pair. Obviously JJ needed to go and I was on the trade Horny train, but I maintained you only do it if you can put yourself in a better position.

So he brings in a $4M+ 3rd pairing dman who's contract length make him near impossible to move and significantly weakness the Pens bottom six. Explain to me how this is good asset management. Please.

Sorry for the super long post lol
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: St. John's, NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jan 25 @ 11:20 AM ET
GM's try to find that diamond in the rough. Those under the radar players. He found that in Pettersson. Many here didn't project him higher than a bottom pairing dman which is fine. Trading a bust of a prospect for a serviceable 3rd pairing dman is a solid move, but he's proven to be a legit 2nd pairing dman.

JR did it. He traded a busted asset into a valuable asset. He also got Riikola who had a rough rookie season, but then became one of the more consistent Pens' dmen last year when he actually played. A cheap above average 3rd pairing dman. He also did the best he could in the Kessel trade and got a decent NHL dman prospect who has now proven that he's ready for the NHL.

I mean, this is what you want out of a GM, right? By all standards, if we just look at that, JR did a PHENOMENAL job.

When he made the Matheson trade the Pens had the following lefty dmen on the roster: Dumo, Pettersson, JJ and Riikola. FOUR. That's FOUR LD's on the roster. JJ already had a bloated contract on the 3rd pair and he trades for ANOTHER LD on an even more bloated contract to battle for the 3rd pair?

I mean, he stated Dumo and Pettersson are going nowhere, so he consciously brought in a $4M+ dman to compete for the third pair. Obviously JJ needed to go and I was on the trade Horny train, but I maintained you only do it if you can put yourself in a better position.

So he brings in a $4M+ 3rd pairing dman who's contract length make him near impossible to move and significantly weakness the Pens bottom six. Explain to me how this is good asset management. Please.

Sorry for the super long post lol

- Rinosaur


I never care about long posts, in fact, I encourage it. This site is for entertainment purposes to me. Long posts relating to the team and game I love will always be read, whether I agree or not. In this case I do agree with all of it.

For me, regarding the moves this offseason, all that has to be said is that everyone and their Mom knew the Pens had a solid top 4 D along with an effective and extremely cost effective 3rd pairing....despite this JR went out and obtained 6.125 mill (Math + Ceci) in defense hahaha....and to add further insult to this, these two guys are known for being defensive liabilities and not very good overall, especially Ceci.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jan 25 @ 11:23 AM ET
I never care about long posts, in fact, I encourage it. This site is for entertainment purposes to me. Long posts relating to the team and game I love will always be read, whether I agree or not. In this case I do agree with all of it.

For me, regarding the moves this offseason, all that has to be said is that everyone and their Mom knew the Pens had a solid top 4 D along with an effective and extremely cost effective 3rd pairing....despite this JR went out and obtained 6.125 mill (Math + Ceci) in defense hahaha....and to add further insult to this, these two guys are known for being defensive liabilities and not very good overall, especially Ceci.

- MattStrat


Haha thanks, but yeah, there was nothing about this that screams good asset management. Whatever left over money they had could have been used to ATTEMPT to upgrade the 3C position between McCann and Horn. They could have literally left the rest alone and honestly, he could have still picked up Ceci and it would have been fine.
stackthepads
Joined: 05.13.2013

Jan 25 @ 11:38 AM ET
Haha thanks, but yeah, there was nothing about this that screams good asset management. Whatever left over money they had could have been used to ATTEMPT to upgrade the 3C position between McCann and Horn. They could have literally left the rest alone and honestly, he could have still picked up Ceci and it would have been fine.
- Rinosaur


Who exactly is this 3C option?

And if MM worked/works out then It gives JR the option of trading Peterson or Dumo for a 3C upgrade. Although it looks more 2C is our biggest concern right now.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jan 25 @ 11:46 AM ET
Who exactly is this 3C option?

And if MM worked/works out then It gives JR the option of trading Peterson or Dumo for a 3C upgrade. Although it looks more 2C is our biggest concern right now.

- stackthepads


Bring in a player to chase out a player(Dumo/Petts) we don't need to chase out? Where is the logic in that?

Also, I used the word attempt. Even if it ultimately wound up being Jank. McCann-Jank-Horn is far better than what they're working with now.

EDIT: If Dumo and/or Pettersson were signed to rough contracts I'd say ok, I could see SOME logic in hoping Matheson pans out so they could move one of them, but they're not. Both Dumoulin and Pettersson are signed to very friendly contracts.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Jan 25 @ 11:54 AM ET
Who exactly is this 3C option?

And if MM worked/works out then It gives JR the option of trading Peterson or Dumo for a 3C upgrade. Although it looks more 2C is our biggest concern right now.

- stackthepads

What pissed me off IF true was that Ruth had other offers on the table that would have been better for us, again IF that was true.
stackthepads
Joined: 05.13.2013

Jan 25 @ 11:59 AM ET
Bring in a player to chase out a player(Dumo/Petts) we don't need to chase out? Where is the logic in that?

Also, I used the word attempt. Even if it ultimately wound up being Jank. McCann-Jank-Horn is far better than what they're working with now.

EDIT: If Dumo and/or Pettersson were signed to rough contracts I'd say ok, I could see SOME logic in hoping Matheson pans out so they could move one of the, but they're not. Both Dumoulin and Pettersson are signed to very friendly contracts.

- Rinosaur



Their friendly contracts is what makes them valuable as trade assets. There’s also Letang who misses more and more time each year. I think MM is a risky bet but could pay off. It’s hard to argue for or against him since he only played 2 games.

Jankowski has been fine as the 3C, that line does exactly what we need it to do, and they’re chipping in goals.

The major problem with the team right now is Malkin. No one here knows what the issue is, injury, conditioning, rust, upset about line mates who knows, but Malkin is the biggest problem with the team right now.
stackthepads
Joined: 05.13.2013

Jan 25 @ 12:01 PM ET
What pissed me off IF true was that Ruth had other offers on the table that would have been better for us, again IF that was true.
- 668710


No point considering IFs
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: St. John's, NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jan 25 @ 12:09 PM ET
Their friendly contracts is what makes them valuable as trade assets. There’s also Letang who misses more and more time each year. I think MM is a risky bet but could pay off. It’s hard to argue for or against him since he only played 2 games.

Jankowski has been fine as the 3C, that line does exactly what we need it to do, and they’re chipping in goals.

The major problem with the team right now is Malkin. No one here knows what the issue is, injury, conditioning, rust, upset about line mates who knows, but Malkin is the biggest problem with the team right now.

- stackthepads


To my eyes Geno is in his own head but in saying that his line also borderline dominated the game before last night. I'm not worried about Geno right now, I truly think he'll snap out of it and go Machino in the near future.
Rinosaur
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Somewhere, NJ
Joined: 01.21.2016

Jan 25 @ 12:10 PM ET
Their friendly contracts is what makes them valuable as trade assets. There’s also Letang who misses more and more time each year. I think MM is a risky bet but could pay off. It’s hard to argue for or against him since he only played 2 games.

Jankowski has been fine as the 3C, that line does exactly what we need it to do, and they’re chipping in goals.

The major problem with the team right now is Malkin. No one here knows what the issue is, injury, conditioning, rust, upset about line mates who knows, but Malkin is the biggest problem with the team right now.

- stackthepads


I mean, not to be a Richard, but this still doesn't make any sense. Why would you not want to keep two good players who are on friendly contracts? Isn't that what you hope to find?

Geno will come around.
10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Jan 25 @ 12:13 PM ET
Not that there were tangible results but malkin looked engaged in the 3rd at least. He was skating, around the net, at least trying stuff like his attempted deke while deep in the zone on a 1 on 3.

Malkin struggling is less of an issue to me as MM or jarry or desmith. Malkin is a known commodity and for whatever reason he is struggling. Even if age is the reason he will get better and malkin at 75% capability is better than most alternatives.

All in all that was the first game the pens started to play a real game. Chances were given for sure but either they whiffed or jarry made a save. Depending on this Erod situation and who may/may not replace him could drastically affect this team. Just by him missing a few shifts Crosby has a new rw. Kap had to move up the lineup. Kap has looked good and his back checking might really help malkin’s lazy D tendencies.. or perpetuate them haha.

I hope O’Connor is the next man up and brings some grit to the 4th line. Hopefully a better version of Laff. Also I forgot about Laff till this very second so I hope he is still riding the pine pony next game.
stackthepads
Joined: 05.13.2013

Jan 25 @ 12:18 PM ET
I mean, not to be a Richard, but this still doesn't make any sense. Why would you not want to keep two good players who are on friendly contracts? Isn't that what you hope to find?

Geno will come around.

- Rinosaur


Are you implying that I would just trade them away for nothing? Their friendly contracts make them more tradable opening up the pool of players I could trade for. If I need a 3C down the road, having that Dumo on a good contract up my sleeve could be handy. If I don’t need to trade them then I have friendly contracts on my roster. Where is the downside again?
stackthepads
Joined: 05.13.2013

Jan 25 @ 12:21 PM ET
Not that there were tangible results but malkin looked engaged in the 3rd at least. He was skating, around the net, at least trying stuff like his attempted deke while deep in the zone on a 1 on 3.

Malkin struggling is less of an issue to me as MM or jarry or desmith. Malkin is a known commodity and for whatever reason he is struggling. Even if age is the reason he will get better and malkin at 75% capability is better than most alternatives.

All in all that was the first game the pens started to play a real game. Chances were given for sure but either they whiffed or jarry made a save. Depending on this Erod situation and who may/may not replace him could drastically affect this team. Just by him missing a few shifts Crosby has a new rw. Kap had to move up the lineup. Kap has looked good and his back checking might really help malkin’s lazy D tendencies.. or perpetuate them haha.

I hope O’Connor is the next man up and brings some grit to the 4th line. Hopefully a better version of Laff. Also I forgot about Laff till this very second so I hope he is still riding the pine pony next game.

- 10inchTerror


I think Malkin will pick it up. But it doesn’t change my opinion that right now the second line is the problem. If Malkin gets going the team is good.

Assuming Jarry keeps up his play.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jan 25 @ 12:24 PM ET
I think Malkin will pick it up. But it doesn’t change my opinion that right now the second line is the problem. If Malkin gets going the team is good.

Assuming Jarry keeps up his play.

- stackthepads




Statistically they look fine. Once they start actually finishing their chances, they'll be fine.
Hockey66
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 07.05.2019

Jan 25 @ 12:24 PM ET
Are you implying that I would just trade them away for nothing? Their friendly contracts make them more tradable opening up the pool of players I could trade for. If I need a 3C down the road, having that Dumo on a good contract up my sleeve could be handy. If I don’t need to trade them then I have friendly contracts on my roster. Where is the downside again?
- stackthepads

I don't think they're that friendly, especially for two guys who don't produce much offense, and in the case of Dumo inexplicably next to zero offense. I also think Dumo benefits from playing next to Letang, now has an injury history, and he is about to turn 30. Petts has been inconsistent and makes $4M for the next 5 years. That is about fully compensated for who he is, especially taking into account the COVID payscale. They might get you an average 3C, but I think both Blueger and Jank are average 3Cs right now.
10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Jan 25 @ 12:37 PM ET
Lines today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
McCann-Blueger-Tanev
O'Connor-Jankowski-Sceviour/Lafferty
(Sceviour took first rep on RW)

Dumoulin-Letang
Marino-Ceci
Joseph-Ruhwedel

So Marino still on off wing. Seems like a very simple fix to bump Poj up with him and put him back on his natural side. Erod out still. Hopefully O’Connor lands his first game. I think the top 9 is pretty solid although I’d still like to see G with geno. But at least hopefully Sid will light it up.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Washington, DC
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jan 25 @ 12:42 PM ET
Lines today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
McCann-Blueger-Tanev
O'Connor-Jankowski-Sceviour/Lafferty
(Sceviour took first rep on RW)

Dumoulin-Letang
Marino-Ceci
Joseph-Ruhwedel

So Marino still on off wing. Seems like a very simple fix to bump Poj up with him and put him back on his natural side. Erod out still. Hopefully O’Connor lands his first game. I think the top 9 is pretty solid although I’d still like to see G with geno. But at least hopefully Sid will light it up.

- 10inchTerror

Encouraging.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Jan 25 @ 12:46 PM ET
Their friendly contracts is what makes them valuable as trade assets. There’s also Letang who misses more and more time each year. I think MM is a risky bet but could pay off. It’s hard to argue for or against him since he only played 2 games.

Jankowski has been fine as the 3C, that line does exactly what we need it to do, and they’re chipping in goals.

The major problem with the team right now is Malkin. No one here knows what the issue is, injury, conditioning, rust, upset about line mates who knows, but Malkin is the biggest problem with the team right now.

- stackthepads

Geno is playing like poop. But that doesn't excuse paying 13 million on the LEFT side of the defense when that side doesn't have the highest paid player on it. The Right side is cheaper with having the highest paid guy. So there's huge overpayment on the third pair of the defense. We could use that cap space for a top 6 guy or a stud 3c and we'd be better off.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Jan 25 @ 12:49 PM ET


Statistically they look fine. Once they start actually finishing their chances, they'll be fine.

- j.boyd919

Geno was real bad last night. Obviously it's one game, but yea he was basically turning the puck over every time. He'll be ok though.
668710
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Joined: 06.25.2011

Jan 25 @ 12:57 PM ET
Encouraging.
- Victoro311

Yea the forwards..that D still....
10inchTerror
Joined: 10.13.2019

Jan 25 @ 12:58 PM ET
Encouraging.
- Victoro311


Unfortunately the only reason that is encouraging is because of an Erod injury but I’ll take it!
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: St. John's, NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jan 25 @ 1:03 PM ET
Lines today:

Guentzel-Crosby-Rust
Zucker-Malkin-Kapanen
McCann-Blueger-Tanev
O'Connor-Jankowski-Sceviour/Lafferty
(Sceviour took first rep on RW)

Dumoulin-Letang
Marino-Ceci
Joseph-Ruhwedel

So Marino still on off wing. Seems like a very simple fix to bump Poj up with him and put him back on his natural side. Erod out still. Hopefully O’Connor lands his first game. I think the top 9 is pretty solid although I’d still like to see G with geno. But at least hopefully Sid will light it up.

- 10inchTerror


It sucks, and certainly isnt ideal, but someone has to be on their off side on D right now. When I think of the candidates I think Marino, with his skating, smarts and way he can maneuver his body, is the best out of him, Ceci, Joseph or Rudy to do so.
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