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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Win Season Finale; Exit Day
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Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 11 @ 5:21 PM ET
I’m not a JV fan and while he gets his points he also turns over the puck a ton by making poor pass decisions in the offensive zone.
He’s not great on the boards. He’s not very good defensively and is lazy most of the time with back checking.
He’s also one of the big culprits that leave the dzone to early leaving the defense to get pressured heavily with no outlet.
Plus I also think he’s an enabler of the team playing lazy.

- bird_dog_pa

Doesnt matter, to call the player that led the team in points a "disaster" is complete nonsense, regardless of how you feel about his attitude or defensive play. News flash, not everyone is a good defensive player. All teams have players that stink defensively. But if you are going to stink defensively, you should be producing points, which Jake does.
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 5:42 PM ET
If they come back from this season with nothing more than another Niskanen/Streit style band-aid then dear lord, they deserve all the poop they get. So afraid to fail they’ll perpetually cling onto mediocrity.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 6:00 PM ET
If they come back from this season with nothing more than another Niskanen/Streit style band-aid then dear lord, they deserve all the poop they get. So afraid to fail they’ll perpetually cling onto mediocrity.
- hereticpride


This is my worry. Even if CBJ is not where Jones wants to be, they are not going to give him away for nothing. Over the summer the trade price is going to be the highest and then it will come down as season gets closer and closer to the trade deadline and they fear that they will lose him for nothing. But if the initial price scares off the Flyers then they may end up compromising and choosing to trade for someone like Risto/Ekholm/Klingberg/Ellis (another guy in Provy's talent range = a #2 guy).

Then as salaries like JVR, Voracek, Giroux, Ghost start to slough off, we will be again stuck with some good but not good enough players on long term deals.

NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 6:13 PM ET

I don’t know if it was brought up, but Fletcher mentioned the number of Covid cases that the team plus taxi squad dealt with in the last few months. I thought he said 20. He also said there was some right before the season began.

To me this is pretty significant since I think I could only guess about 10 of them. That fact that there was twice that many and confirmation of some right before the season started is something to think about.

hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 6:13 PM ET
This is my worry. Even if CBJ is not where Jones wants to be, they are not going to give him away for nothing. Over the summer the trade price is going to be the highest and then it will come down as season gets closer and closer to the trade deadline and they fear that they will lose him for nothing. But if the initial price scares off the Flyers then they may end up compromising and choosing to trade for someone like Risto/Ekholm/Klingberg/Ellis (another guy in Provy's talent range = a #2 guy).

Then as salaries like JVR, Voracek, Giroux, Ghost start to slough off, we will be again stuck with some good but not good enough players on long term deals.

- PT21

The way every avenue of all four major sports are micromanaged now you need to know when to take a step back to move forward. Flyers might not be the only NHL team that doesn’t understand this but also dare I say the only among the other 3 major sports as well.

(Baseball gets a bit of a pass having no salary cap)
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 11 @ 6:17 PM ET
I don’t know if it was brought up, but Fletcher mentioned the number of Covid cases that the team plus taxi squad dealt with in the last few months. I thought he said 20. He also said there was some right before the season began.

To me this is pretty significant since I think I could only guess about 10 of them. That fact that there was twice that many and confirmation of some right before the season started is something to think about.

- NC Flyers Fan

Lets not go with the covid excuse. every team dealt with it. The young guys needed to be better and they regressed. Simple as that.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 6:20 PM ET
Lets not go with the covid excuse. every team dealt with it. The young guys needed to be better and they regressed. Simple as that.
- Richieattack18


Did you know that 20 of our guys had Covid? I said nothing of excuses. Facts are facts.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 6:21 PM ET
The way every avenue of all four major sports are micromanaged now you need to know when to take a step back to move forward. Flyers might not be the only NHL team that doesn’t understand this but also dare I say the only among the other 3 major sports as well.

(Baseball gets a bit of a pass having no salary cap)

- hereticpride


I am not convinced they don't understand.... There is just no incentive for them to have a few losing seasons. As it is the median Flyers fan is 50ish. Thats old for an average. People well over 50 are not as attractive to advertisers. And they may lose a young generation if they dont stay relevant.

Comcast bought the team to provide downstream content. That content needs to be entertaining. Why risk toppling the gravy train for an low likelihood run for the cup?
daddytc
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sarasota, FL
Joined: 10.03.2014

May 11 @ 6:35 PM ET
Right.

Just about every fan everywhere went with Nico or NOPA at the 2 pick, whomever NJ didnt take.

- opeth_pa


You got me. I was just making that story up to try to impress a bunch of people on hockey buzz. Now I'll have to go kick my dog. Thanks.
Phillywhiteout
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: West Chester, PA
Joined: 08.11.2020

May 11 @ 6:38 PM ET
Please stop with the Covid crap as an excuse for this team!! This team was man handled by the Isles in last year's playoffs and you could argue that the Habs handled them too. Then you throw in the fact that you lost Niskanen and Pitlick this off season(2 of their more physical players) and they became even softer than the team that was physically dominated by the Isles. Another factor is that you have 3 very physical teams in their division(Bruins, Caps and Isles) and you had to play them a bunch of times. This may be the softest Flyers team in their history and that needs to be changed! Of course, Chucky was shown that fact last year and he did nothing to fix it, so I have no confidence that he'll fix it this off season. Thanks!
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 6:46 PM ET
Please stop with the Covid crap as an excuse for this team!! This team was man handled by the Isles in last year's playoffs and you could argue that the Habs handled them too. Then you throw in the fact that you lost Niskanen and Pitlick this off season(2 of their more physical players) and they became even softer than the team that was physically dominated by the Isles. Another factor is that you have 3 very physical teams in their division(Bruins, Caps and Isles) and you had to play them a bunch of times. This may be the softest Flyers team in their history and that needs to be changed! Of course, Chucky was shown that fact last year and he did nothing to fix it, so I have no confidence that he'll fix it this off season. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout


I certainly am not using Covid as an excuse for underperforming as a team. I also have not denied the obvious holes in the lineup and issues that have like slow starts or on the PP that have plagued this team pre-Covid.

But we were given more information today, and I want to think on it. A lot of people have been screaming for months that we overvalued our youth. That this season instead of last season pre-pandemic was more indicative of the talent level of the youth. I don’t buy it.
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 6:55 PM ET
I am not convinced they don't understand.... There is just no incentive for them to have a few losing seasons. As it is the median Flyers fan is 50ish. Thats old for an average. People well over 50 are not as attractive to advertisers. And they may lose a young generation if they dont stay relevant.

Comcast bought the team to provide downstream content. That content needs to be entertaining. Why risk toppling the gravy train for an low likelihood run for the cup?

- PT21

I think Comcast is in for a big surprise when stadiums are opened back to full capacity. Just going off social media this past year I’ve never seen so many people fed up with this franchise.

I already had the ticketing department calling me two years ago trying to get me to re-up season tickets that I canceled seven years ago.
Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 11 @ 6:59 PM ET
Did you know that 20 of our guys had Covid? I said nothing of excuses. Facts are facts.
- NC Flyers Fan

Stop. Every team had to deal with players getting covid. It's not there to be a cop out for why all of our young guys except for Farabee took steps backwards this season. Dont blame covid on why we sucked this year.
Just5
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.22.2008

May 11 @ 7:01 PM ET
Please stop with the Covid crap as an excuse for this team!! This team was man handled by the Isles in last year's playoffs and you could argue that the Habs handled them too. Then you throw in the fact that you lost Niskanen and Pitlick this off season(2 of their more physical players) and they became even softer than the team that was physically dominated by the Isles. Another factor is that you have 3 very physical teams in their division(Bruins, Caps and Isles) and you had to play them a bunch of times. This may be the softest Flyers team in their history and that needs to be changed! Of course, Chucky was shown that fact last year and he did nothing to fix it, so I have no confidence that he'll fix it this off season. Thanks!
- Phillywhiteout


They were definitely outplayed by what was it a 10 or 12 seeded team last year?
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 7:02 PM ET
Stop. Every team had to deal with players getting covid. It's not there to be a cop out for why all of our young guys except for Farabee took steps backwards this season. Dont blame covid on why we sucked this year.
- Richieattack18

The covid brain fog might explain Myers playing like an absolute idiot tho...
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 7:05 PM ET
I certainly am not using Covid as an excuse for underperforming as a team. I also have not denied the obvious holes in the lineup and issues that have like slow starts or on the PP that have plagued this team pre-Covid.

But we were given more information today, and I want to think on it. A lot of people have been screaming for months that we overvalued our youth. That this season instead of last season pre-pandemic was more indicative of the talent level of the youth. I don’t buy it.

- NC Flyers Fan


And why would Covid target almost all the younger players and almost none of the older players?

I dunno where young kids are. I am not taking a stance on that. I think its too early. I am optimistic that the reality is closer to last year than this (and I feel thats not good enough but that's a different story).

You can choose to believe Covid reasons, but it does seem a tad far-fetched.

Here is an excerpt from the The Athletic today re: this:

The Flyers’ season was halted for 10 days, as eight players ultimately hit the protocol list: Travis Sanheim, Claude Giroux, Justin Braun, Jakub Voracek, Morgan Frost, Scott Laughton, Konecny and Oskar Lindblom. Now, we’ll likely know more about the true impact of COVID-19 on the conditioning level of the players who tested positive in the coming days — Konecny did acknowledge last week in a throwaway comment that some players were hit hard.

That said, my hunch is that with maybe a couple of exceptions, the Flyers’ season didn’t fall apart because of long-term COVID-19 symptoms. In fact, the team had probably its most impressive run after the pause
. From Feb. 24 through March 4, the Flyers won four of five games, including two shutout victories over the Sabres (easy opponent, but they took care of business) and a dramatic comeback victory over the rival Penguins. In fact, when February ended, the Flyers had the best points percentage in the East Division.[/i]

Richieattack18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Girouxsalem
Joined: 07.13.2010

May 11 @ 7:09 PM ET
The covid brain fog might explain Myers playing like an absolute idiot tho...
- hereticpride

I think Myers will be fine. He has all of the tools and this was his first rough season after playing well up to this point. Lets call it what it is - growing pains - and stop with the covid excuse for why players were not playing good enough.
arichardson22
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philly, PA
Joined: 06.10.2013

May 11 @ 7:11 PM ET
I agree with a lot of things that were said in the presser.

Yes everyone dealt with COVID but some teams had it worse with the stoppages. I mean the Isles were having 2-3 days between games for example while we were playing every 2nd with some b2b games thrown in. It also shouldnt come to anyones surprise that most of the teams that had 2+ weeks of stoppages struggled this year. The only team off the top of my head that was successful was Minnesota.

The bit about the lack of practice I also agree with. We are a young team and the expectation was for our youth to step up and drive the team and like AV said the young guys struggled without having the time to practice. They struggled to find consistency and we saw them get worn out physically.

AV also hit the nail on the head in regards to conditioning. Many of the players did not look like they were in peak condition.

The team Management probably could have been a lot more proactive at making sure these guys were in shape ready to go

- xShoot4WarAmpsx


I agree with everything but the condition comment. While I don’t doubt it was hard to work out with covid.. I distinctly remember AV saying start of camp that he was very impressed and pleased with the condition everyone came into camp with 🤔 so which is it?
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

May 11 @ 7:15 PM ET
And why would Covid target almost all the younger players and almost none of the older players?

I dunno where young kids are. I am not taking a stance on that. I think its too early. I am optimistic that the reality is closer to last year than this (and I feel thats not good enough but that's a different story).

You can choose to believe Covid reasons, but it does seem a tad far-fetched.

Here is an excerpt from the The Athletic today re: this:

The Flyers’ season was halted for 10 days, as eight players ultimately hit the protocol list: Travis Sanheim, Claude Giroux, Justin Braun, Jakub Voracek, Morgan Frost, Scott Laughton, Konecny and Oskar Lindblom. Now, we’ll likely know more about the true impact of COVID-19 on the conditioning level of the players who tested positive in the coming days — Konecny did acknowledge last week in a throwaway comment that some players were hit hard.

That said, my hunch is that with maybe a couple of exceptions, the Flyers’ season didn’t fall apart because of long-term COVID-19 symptoms. In fact, the team had probably its most impressive run after the pause
. From Feb. 24 through March 4, the Flyers won four of five games, including two shutout victories over the Sabres (easy opponent, but they took care of business) and a dramatic comeback victory over the rival Penguins. In fact, when February ended, the Flyers had the best points percentage in the East Division.

- PT21[
/i]


In Carter Harts case, living by himself, not having a family to go home to. Older players were probably more equipped maturity wise to deal with the new normal....that being said every team had young guys that were going through the same thing. I have to agree the whole set up was tough, but to use that as an excuse for such a decline in young players performance should be viewed as only a small part of the reason.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 7:20 PM ET
In Carter Harts case, living by himself, not having a family to go home to. Older players were probably more equipped maturity wise to deal with the new normal....that being said every team had young guys that were going through the same thing. I have to agree the whole set up was tough, but to use that as an excuse for such a decline in young players performance should be viewed as only a small part of the reason.
- landros 2


I thought he meant actual infection => poor performance. Not just the mental part of the isolation.

Re the latter though: Hart was magnificent for a good month last year in Toronto. That was much more isolated.
SuperSchennBros
Location: Not protected by the Mods...I mean Mob. Take your best shot!
Joined: 09.01.2012

May 11 @ 8:22 PM ET
C Couturier
LW Giroux
RW Voracek
LW van Riemsdyk
RW Konency
LW Farabee
C Hayes
C Laughton
LW Lindblom
RW Allison
C Patrick
C Frost

LD Provorov
LD Sanheim
LD York
RD Myers
LD Hagg
LD Morin

RW Aube-Kubel
RD Gostisbehere
RD Braun

I am so over the three at the bottom. Ghost really did have a good season but for me, Ghost is like our playoff opportunities the passed decade. Good one season, bad the following season. Ghost is just due to disappoint again.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 8:40 PM ET
Stop. Every team had to deal with players getting covid. It's not there to be a cop out for why all of our young guys except for Farabee took steps backwards this season. Dont blame covid on why we sucked this year.
- Richieattack18


You are welcome to think what you want and so will I. I was just pointing out new information. I prefer not to ignore facts. This was not a normal season and I don’t think it was the most accurate picture of the current talent level of our under 25 players.

There is no single factor among the youth...some had injuries, some had difficulty without practice, some had struggles with the added Covid protocol and quarantine among others issues. My point is that across the board regression (except Farabee) was very unlikely and doesn’t make much sense.

Everyone keeps saying that everyone dealt with Covid but in life most times things don’t hit evenly across the board. Life is not fair.

It’s not about excuses. Excuses are meaningless. Where do we go from here? For me, it’s about how much salt to add to evaluating this unusually subpar season that landed far below expectations. How much was outside the controllable? How much is likely to happen again?

NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 8:43 PM ET
I think Myers will be fine. He has all of the tools and this was his first rough season after playing well up to this point. Lets call it what it is - growing pains - and stop with the covid excuse for why players were not playing good enough.
- Richieattack18


I think he was one of the ones that had multiple injuries. It is also possible he thrives on practice.

NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 8:47 PM ET
I thought he meant actual infection => poor performance. Not just the mental part of the isolation.

Re the latter though: Hart was magnificent for a good month last year in Toronto. That was much more isolated.

- PT21


In the bubble, he was at the hotel with his teammates everyday and meals together. In this season, he was alone in his apartment. Very different circumstances.

NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

May 11 @ 8:51 PM ET
I agree with everything but the condition comment. While I don’t doubt it was hard to work out with covid.. I distinctly remember AV saying start of camp that he was very impressed and pleased with the condition everyone came into camp with 🤔 so which is it?
- arichardson22


I thought about this also. Apparently, hindsight is 20/20. Only after the grind, when players showed energy sagging or hit a wall, did this become a potential cause.

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