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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Win Season Finale; Exit Day
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wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

May 11 @ 10:35 AM ET
What does NoPa do well exactly? He does not skate well. He is not good on faceoffs. Doesn't win all that many puck battles. If he has a good shot we wouldn't know it because rarely shoots the puck. Is completely predictable with his stupid drop passes. I mean what potential do you see in this kid that is worth cultivating and keeping around? He has played on the top line. He has played on the 4th line. He has played with good players like G and awful players like NAK. He has been given 2+ minutes a PP time per game. What am I missing?
- jd250



actually his FO % has been over 50 all 3 years and has gotten better each season, he is a plus skater but his hands are still having migraines. I agree, he needs to learn how to use his body to control the puck but that takes time. Nico does it but he has played more hockey and is honestly just better. Look at Coots timeline to break 40 points, it came with him learning how to use his size and protect the puck. That would be the main skill I would have Patrick work on this off-season. He has the skating to get there, he has to slow the game down when he gets there.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 10:36 AM ET
I will add that with a shortened season he was trying to give rest but that was impacted by the bad play and Covid. Then I think he just kept tinkering, to much.

I think you leave TK with G and Coots. I think you can make a case for Hayes, Farabee and Allison. Then it all depends on who is gone and who they add.

- wcorvette

Yes, I agree that AV did get tinker happy as the season started to spiral downward. It almost seemed like he and his staff were panicking which could not have helped anything. I do not like Hayes with Farabee and Allison because I think he slows them down. I would like to see Frost maybe slide in at center, if as you say he is not traded. Now Hayes-Schwartz-Saad/Foligno would be a very heavy line that Fletcher can make happen in the off season!
corduroy
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NT
Joined: 12.09.2006

May 11 @ 10:41 AM ET
900 out of 901? Is that real?
- PLindbergh31



Yes -- Patrick is the last name on page 45, Dahlin is the only name on page 46 on NHL.com +/- leaders page

http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_...lusMinus&gameType=2&pg=46
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: It don't matter where you from, it's where you at
Joined: 06.29.2006

May 11 @ 10:42 AM ET
900 out of 901? Is that real?
- PLindbergh31


Look how happy you are!
HockeyLifer
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: NJ
Joined: 04.23.2015

May 11 @ 10:43 AM ET
I like Foligno. He’s older now, 33 I think. He’ll be a UFA if Toronto doesn’t sign him. But, he’s a leader, still a solid player and can skate. Not sure what he’ll ask for in term or dollars but if we can lose Jake and or JVR in the expansion draft and we can get Foligno at a reasonable price and term I would get him. We need to hit on our draft picks, obviously. A package deal seems to be the right thing to do with players like ghost, NoPa, even TK. I would seriously consider trading Coots for the right combo of picks/talent. I wouldn’t even consider that if we were a true contender but we aren’t.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 10:43 AM ET
What does NoPa do well exactly? He does not skate well. He is not good on faceoffs. Doesn't win all that many puck battles. If he has a good shot we wouldn't know it because rarely shoots the puck. Is completely predictable with his stupid drop passes. I mean what potential do you see in this kid that is worth cultivating and keeping around? He has played on the top line. He has played on the 4th line. He has played with good players like G and awful players like NAK. He has been given 2+ minutes a PP time per game. What am I missing?
- jd250

Your missing that he is 22 years old, missed a year plus of playing time and the fact that not every player develops at the same pace, regardless of what you hope for. He has all the tools, it comes down to the player and the coaches to put him in a position to succeed. To this point, this team is not constructed to do so, and you are more likely to have a buffalo situation than Tampa bay situation. I don't think the book is written yet on him...if it was we should have cut Coots and Laughts the way this board talked about them as being trash...those two players are legitimate NHL players...that is what you hope for out of a 1st round pick...and most teams miss.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 10:45 AM ET
actually his FO % has been over 50 all 3 years and has gotten better each season, he is a plus skater but his hands are still having migraines. I agree, he needs to learn how to use his body to control the puck but that takes time. Nico does it but he has played more hockey and is honestly just better. Look at Coots timeline to break 40 points, it came with him learning how to use his size and protect the puck. That would be the main skill I would have Patrick work on this off-season. He has the skating to get there, he has to slow the game down when he gets there.
- wcorvette

I didn't realize his FO% was over 50%, thanks for that tidbit. However I consider a player to be good at faceoffs if they are 55% or higher and NoPa has a ways to go to get there. His Corsi is 48% overall and under 50% all 3 seasons so he is chasing the puck alot more than possessing it. When you look at Couts, his numbers exploded once he got PP time. NoPa has had PP time consistently all season, but he just does not have the drive to make a play, he would rather sit on the perimeter which is not good!
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 10:49 AM ET
Your missing that he is 22 years old, missed a year plus of playing time and the fact that not every player develops at the same pace, regardless of what you hope for. He has all the tools, it comes down to the player and the coaches to put him in a position to succeed. To this point, this team is not constructed to do so, and you are more likely to have a buffalo situation than Tampa bay situation. I don't think the book is written yet on him...if it was we should have cut Coots and Laughts the way this board talked about them as being trash...those two players are legitimate NHL players...that is what you hope for out of a 1st round pick...and most teams miss.
- JW98FlyerFan

But with Couts you could see the potential in his first few NHL seasons which is why the team stuck with him. You stated NoPa "has all the tools". Really? How do you know this? When has NoPa demonstrated in any consistent way at the NHL level that he has any tools? There are too many 22 year olds in this league that are significantly contributing to their teams for more than 1 year already, so to me age is not an issue here. As Billy Beane once asked "If he is a good player then why doesn't he play good?"
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

May 11 @ 10:51 AM ET
Look how happy you are!
- Scoob


Make it about the team, not about me. Do you want me to start making my posts about you?
Glak18
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The rebuild begins....again., PA
Joined: 06.26.2007

May 11 @ 10:52 AM ET
Here is what I would say to Nolan Patrick if I were Fletch and AV.....

Ok kid you got through the season, took a few shots to the head and it seems like we have your migraines under control. This off season we will be qualifying you to a one year deal.

We know you are a talented player. This offseason we need you to train hard and be ready to come in to training camp and be the player you are supposed to be. Its time to stop worrying about what may happen and start being Nolan (frank)ing Patrick, that player who was a consensus top pick from the time he was 15 years old. You have the size, you have the skill, and you have the ability to play in this league.

We will be behind you 100% in whatever you need from the organization to get your mindset correct. Next season we expect, we demand, that you start to make a concerted effort to have an impact on every single game. every single shift. We can not have a player of your talent being a perimeter player who expects the game to come to him. We will need a more physical, aggressive player from the opening whistle of game one to the final whistle of whatever game we play. We believe that with that mindset, your success will come.

See you in training camp.

- MBFlyerfan


Congrats, you have been nominated to become the new Director of Player Evaluation and Tell It Like It Is position for the Philadelphia Flyers.

The message is clear and precise without holding back and hurting feelings. The only problem I have is that every single player should know this already no matter age or where they are from. The ones who do not know this should not be making tons of money as an athlete and definitely do not deserve it.
Bob Habib
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 08.01.2020

May 11 @ 10:53 AM ET
do you feel that there was to much line shuffling?

I believe with how they played there had to be some but I thought there was way to much.


I would like AV to be more consistent with his lines next season.

- wcorvette

this!! How can the guys familiarize themselves without playing together? I feel that as soon as a line had a cold spell for a game or two that AV shuffled things around. Regardless though it seems like JVR and Beezer scored no matter who they played with. Beezer and wade already look good together as well. if frost can put it together and feed the pick to either of those guys we may see some magic next season
Hopefully next season AV isn't so trigger happy on shaking up the lines
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

May 11 @ 10:53 AM ET
Yes -- Patrick is the last name on page 45, Dahlin is the only name on page 46 on NHL.com +/- leaders page

http://www.nhl.com/ice/m_...lusMinus&gameType=2&pg=46

- corduroy


Eric Staal was also -30. That is a crazy number for a short season.
Patrick playing 4th line minutes posting that is off the charts pathetic.
black_francis
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bumfuck, NJ
Joined: 01.10.2015

May 11 @ 10:54 AM ET
G is not an in your face type of Captain and he never will be....and without Wayne here, there isnt a bad cop presence i the locker room. Im sure Laughts does his best to try to be that guy based on his persona but im not sure he can get the attention of everyone. We may need to bring in someone like Foligno if he's willing to leave the Leafs. I think he'd be a perfect veteran to combine with G.
- juiced


We already signed Hayes. He’s is our Foligno, for better or worse.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 10:55 AM ET
But with Couts you could see the potential in his first few NHL seasons which is why the team stuck with him. You stated NoPa "has all the tools". Really? How do you know this? When has NoPa demonstrated in any consistent way at the NHL level that he has any tools? There are too many 22 year olds in this league that are significantly contributing to their teams for more than 1 year already, so to me age is not an issue here. As Billy Beane once asked "If he is a good player then why doesn't he play good?"
- jd250

Good theory that everyone else has 22 years olds...but they probably came up in the farm system and had to earn it. AKA Allison (yes he is 23). My point is, you see flashes when NoPa does go to the net, the skills are there...he doesn't skate like strome...HE just has to put it together...will he, I don't know. But he got one yearish of hockey under his belt post migraines. It is his to earn or lose next year.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 10:55 AM ET
Your missing that he is 22 years old, missed a year plus of playing time and the fact that not every player develops at the same pace, regardless of what you hope for. He has all the tools, it comes down to the player and the coaches to put him in a position to succeed. To this point, this team is not constructed to do so, and you are more likely to have a buffalo situation than Tampa bay situation. I don't think the book is written yet on him...if it was we should have cut Coots and Laughts the way this board talked about them as being trash...those two players are legitimate NHL players...that is what you hope for out of a 1st round pick...and most teams miss.
- JW98FlyerFan

And look, it was not like I was expecting a lot from Patrick this year. I too knew it would be a crap shoot given his concussion issues and the good news at least is he played almost the entire season, with only one head injury thanks to Myers shooting the puck off his head! But I was at least expecting a season like 10G, 20A, 30Pts, 0-5 +/- and showing more and more as the season went along as he gained confidence in himself and his health.

Instead we got 4G, 5A, -30 which is just astonishingly futile, and rumblings he wants out of here. I say accommodate him if true.
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 10:58 AM ET
Good theory that everyone else has 22 years olds...but they probably came up in the farm system and had to earn it. AKA Allison (yes he is 23). My point is, you see flashes when NoPa does go to the net, the skills are there...he doesn't skate like strome...HE just has to put it together...will he, I don't know. But he got one yearish of hockey under his belt post migraines. It is his to earn or lose next year.
- JW98FlyerFan

Yes, I mean given he has little to no trade value, why not sign him to a $700K contract for 1 year and give him an opportunity to earn a spot on what I hope is a much more stacked and competitive lineup next season. And its not theory regarding 22 year olds, look around the league and see the players at that age that are contributing a lot more than NoPa is and have been doing so for a couple of years now.
Ftown19125
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 09.17.2013

May 11 @ 11:01 AM ET
And look, it was not like I was expecting a lot from Patrick this year. I too knew it would be a crap shoot given his concussion issues and the good news at least is he played almost the entire season, with only one head injury thanks to Myers shooting the puck off his head! But I was at least expecting a season like 10G, 20A, 30Pts, 0-5 +/- and showing more and more as the season went along as he gained confidence in himself and his health.

Instead we got 4G, 5A, -30 which is just astonishingly futile, and rumblings he wants out of here. I say accommodate him if true.

- jd250


from where?
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

May 11 @ 11:06 AM ET
from where?
- Ftown19125

In his own head
Scoob
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: It don't matter where you from, it's where you at
Joined: 06.29.2006

May 11 @ 11:10 AM ET
And look, it was not like I was expecting a lot from Patrick this year. I too knew it would be a crap shoot given his concussion issues and the good news at least is he played almost the entire season, with only one head injury thanks to Myers shooting the puck off his head! But I was at least expecting a season like 10G, 20A, 30Pts, 0-5 +/- and showing more and more as the season went along as he gained confidence in himself and his health.

Instead we got 4G, 5A, -30 which is just astonishingly futile, and rumblings he wants out of here. I say accommodate him if true.

- jd250


big words - source?
jd250
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 01.12.2018

May 11 @ 11:11 AM ET
from where?
- Ftown19125

I have heard this more than once during interviews/discussions on NHL shows, most likely coming from NoPa's camp that are looking for a fresh start, or an excuse for why the kid is not performing.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 11:11 AM ET
Yes, I mean given he has little to no trade value, why not sign him to a $700K contract for 1 year and give him an opportunity to earn a spot on what I hope is a much more stacked and competitive lineup next season. And its not theory regarding 22 year olds, look around the league and see the players at that age that are contributing a lot more than NoPa is and have been doing so for a couple of years now.
- jd250

I don't think you understand trade value. He has a lot of trade value for a team that sees a high ceiling at a low cost in this flat cap era. Especially since he is young and has talent. No one knew what was going to happen to him this year.

Here is how I see it...media has done a great job of hyping up cancer and done almost zero on mental health over the past 2-3 decades...no one is making a comment on Oskar's contribution to this season...why is that? Why is NoPa the whipping boy and not both of them? This TEAM failed this year...it took little parts from each player (and coaches) and they are all to blame...very few times on the ice did I see a TEAM playing out there...they need to reset and get ready for the Trial on the Isle, or whatever they are going to do to support one another and play like a team...it has been a while since they did that...I would just play "the shift" over and over until they get it...or maybe the Mighty Ducks movies...whatever works to get them all on the same page.
Flyerfan2868
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Edmonton, AB
Joined: 02.15.2013

May 11 @ 11:11 AM ET
this!! How can the guys familiarize themselves without playing together? I feel that as soon as a line had a cold spell for a game or two that AV shuffled things around. Regardless though it seems like JVR and Beezer scored no matter who they played with. Beezer and wade already look good together as well. if frost can put it together and feed the pick to either of those guys we may see some magic next season
Hopefully next season AV isn't so trigger happy on shaking up the lines

- Bob Habib


This is another common issue for AV that has followed him from his last gig in NY, so don't expect it to change. He will continue to change lines on a whim and favor a vet over youth.....Many of his former players in NY have spoke about how he juggled lines so often in games, between games, that they felt it was very hard to find consistency and develop their games...I don't expect it to change next year.
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

May 11 @ 11:14 AM ET
Fletcher and Vigneualt saying lack of practice time and players from Canada struggled due to lack of training and ice time were big factors in the results.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

May 11 @ 11:15 AM ET
I have heard this more than once during interviews/discussions on NHL shows, most likely coming from NoPa's camp that are looking for a fresh start, or an excuse for why the kid is not performing.
- jd250

Please post a link to any discussion anywhere regarding this
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

May 11 @ 11:16 AM ET
I didn't realize his FO% was over 50%, thanks for that tidbit. However I consider a player to be good at faceoffs if they are 55% or higher and NoPa has a ways to go to get there. His Corsi is 48% overall and under 50% all 3 seasons so he is chasing the puck alot more than possessing it. When you look at Couts, his numbers exploded once he got PP time. NoPa has had PP time consistently all season, but he just does not have the drive to make a play, he would rather sit on the perimeter which is not good!
- jd250


It took Coots 7 seasons to break 40 points. I agree Patrick possession and +- is a big concern, I tapper it somewhat because this whole season was a poopshow. Expecting a player who was out the better part of 2 years to achieve with s poopshow is a little much
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