Wanna blog? Start your own hockey blog with My HockeyBuzz. Register for free today!
 
Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Wrap: Flyers Win Season Finale; Exit Day
Author Message
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 12:44 PM ET
Really? In that case, I'd love to see your top 14 reasons. Anytime a team gets the #2 overall pick in a pretty loaded draft, and their selection ends up being a bust thus far after 3 years, that would be a major blow to any organization. Yes there are a ton of other issues with this roster, but NoPa not panning out, or contributing anything for that matter, is a serious reason for why this team is where it's at
- Big_E_88



I judge the expectations of a player based on his current contract, which is the most rational assessment of his worth. As soon as he was offered and signed that 1 year QO, the team categorically showed what their most realistic expectation was of him for this year.

His contract this year was 1% of the salary cap. I believe his contributions, + and negative, are confined to the ballpark of that 1%.
black_francis
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bumfuck, NJ
Joined: 01.10.2015

May 11 @ 12:44 PM ET
Haven't the Flyers already gone thru that before... superstar team Captain that has a rift with team medical staff and turns it into a public circus?


- Tomahawk


Thank god for Keith Jones
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 12:50 PM ET
Really? In that case, I'd love to see your top 14 reasons. Anytime a team gets the #2 overall pick in a pretty loaded draft, and their selection ends up being a bust thus far after 3 years, that would be a major blow to any organization. Yes there are a ton of other issues with this roster, but NoPa not panning out, or contributing anything for that matter, is a serious reason for why this team is where it's at
- Big_E_88

back up...This draft was not loaded and was probably the worst one to land the in the top 3. There was ZERO generational talent in the 17 draft. NoPa even after horrible season and missing almost a season and a half is STILL #9 in points from his draft year and #5 in goals. There are only 62 players from that draft year that have tallied a point in the NHL...stop with all your revisionist history nonsense...NoPa is not the problem at 22 years old coming off a major injury where no one thought an NHL career was in the cards for him when he left the game.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 12:52 PM ET
Very true, look at the down stream impact it has had. For example it forced Fletcher to go out and sign Hayes to a ridiculous contract just to solidify a 2nd line center role.
- jd250

His play did not make that happen, his injury did...two sides of different coins...
black_francis
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Bumfuck, NJ
Joined: 01.10.2015

May 11 @ 12:53 PM ET
Just make sure that brochure leaves out the part about misdiagnosing Lindros' collapsed lung, and trying to push him back in to the lineup after he was "medically cleared" following his 17th concussion.
- Big_E_88


Sounds like Buffalo has taken over that role of making this a public circus - we can learn from our mistakes and swoop in and give him the Oskar treatment.
Big_E_88
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Wilmington, DE
Joined: 01.17.2014

May 11 @ 12:54 PM ET
I judge the expectations of a player based on his current contract, which is the most rational assessment of his worth. As soon as he was offered and signed that 1 year QO, the team categorically showed what their most realistic expectation was of him for this year.

His contract this year was 1% of the salary cap. I believe his contributions, + and negative, are confined to the ballpark of that 1%.

- PT21


Fair enough. I see what you're saying. If you look at it strictly from a financial cost vs. production analysis, then sure, NoPa would be low on the list.

But I think there's a much bigger picture to be considered. And I agree with the other poster that NoPa's situation virtually forced Fletcher to sign Hayes to that contract. How does Hayes grade out on your cost/benefit analysis? My guess is he'd be pretty negative, and to me the NoPa situation bears much of the blame for that
wcorvette
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Boynton Beach, FL
Joined: 10.03.2010

May 11 @ 12:55 PM ET
“Our leaders played hard this year.” He mentioned Claude Giroux, Jake Voracek, and Sean Couturier. He said Jake lead the team in scoring.
Chuck Fletcher’s blueprint for the offseason: 1. Defense 2. Goaltending 3. Younger players need to be better
Alain Vigneault on the Flyers season: “Said goaltending, and then Covid hit us. We played games, we did not practice. Those youngers players when their games slip a little they have to practice. We didn’t have practice time. That played a part in our game slipping.”
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 12:57 PM ET
Fair enough. I see what you're saying. If you look at it strictly from a financial cost vs. production analysis, then sure, NoPa would be low on the list.

But I think there's a much bigger picture to be considered. And I agree with the other poster that NoPa's situation virtually forced Fletcher to sign Hayes to that contract. How does Hayes grade out on your cost/benefit analysis? My guess is he'd be pretty negative, and to me the NoPa situation bears much of the blame for that

- Big_E_88

In Hayes I think they got what they paid for last year, but not this year...and it is about the opposite on JVR...both guys going in opposite directions, and not a good fit for what is around them.
Big_E_88
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Wilmington, DE
Joined: 01.17.2014

May 11 @ 12:57 PM ET
back up...This draft was not loaded and was probably the worst one to land the in the top 3. There was ZERO generational talent in the 17 draft. NoPa even after horrible season and missing almost a season and a half is STILL #9 in points from his draft year and #5 in goals. There are only 62 players from that draft year that have tallied a point in the NHL...stop with all your revisionist history nonsense...NoPa is not the problem at 22 years old coming off a major injury where no one thought an NHL career was in the cards for him when he left the game.
- JW98FlyerFan


Sorry, I shoulda specified top-heavy draft. The other guys that went in the top 6 or so may not be generational, but they're all pretty damn good in my book.

Edit: And there's nothing revisionist about my comment. I was totally fine with the NoPa pick at the time, and I'm not going to pretend that I wasn't. The OP's post was about the current state of the team. And if you don't think that NoPa's current situation is among the major issues with this roster, then we can just agree to disagree and move on.
ClaudeFather
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: west haven, CT
Joined: 08.14.2015

May 11 @ 12:59 PM ET
Sorry, I shoulda specified top-heavy draft. The other guys that went in the top 6 or so may not be generational, but they're all pretty damn good in my book.
- Big_E_88

We ended up with the pavel Zacha of the group
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

May 11 @ 12:59 PM ET
Fair enough. I see what you're saying. If you look at it strictly from a financial cost vs. production analysis, then sure, NoPa would be low on the list.

But I think there's a much bigger picture to be considered. And I agree with the other poster that NoPa's situation virtually forced Fletcher to sign Hayes to that contract. How does Hayes grade out on your cost/benefit analysis? My guess is he'd be pretty negative, and to me the NoPa situation bears much of the blame for that

- Big_E_88


I share people's disappointment about the career of Patrick. But I'm really confining my analysis to the difference of the club's fortunes from last year when Patrick did not play at all to this year when he did. It seems fairly clear to me that for this last year his poor performance has only marginal significance in the slippage...
THE EVIL WITHIN
Season Ticket Holder
Location: NJ
Joined: 11.20.2017

May 11 @ 12:59 PM ET
What else can they say.?....Team ‘Excuse” in full effect.
- landros 2

Fletcher has to sell hope. Because flyers seasontickets is not very hot after the price hike, and flyers on ice product.
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

May 11 @ 12:59 PM ET
Couturier handled the press conference the way you want to see a leader handle it.
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

May 11 @ 1:04 PM ET
Fletcher has to sell hope. Because flyers seasontickets is not very hot after the price hike, and flyers on ice product.
- THE EVIL WITHIN



As PT21 likes to point out.....$ talks. That might be the pressure needed for Fletcher to be more aggressive. Interesting that the Young Players were pointed too. When that happens on masse, it’s mostly the coach that gets the axe. Covid is the problem....nothing to see here.
See ya next year fella’s.
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 1:06 PM ET
Fletcher has to sell hope. Because flyers seasontickets is not very hot after the price hike, and flyers on ice product.
- THE EVIL WITHIN

I can’t fathom spending season ticket money on this team.
Tomahawk
Location: Driver's Seat: Mitch Marner bandwagon. In a shambles.
Joined: 02.04.2009

May 11 @ 1:06 PM ET
And I agree with the other poster that NoPa's situation virtually forced Fletcher to sign Hayes to that contract.
- Big_E_88


A bit of revisionist history here.

NP first started complaining about "headaches" in June 2019. Nobody had any inkling that they would linger and force him to miss the entire season. He wasn't listed as "week-to-week" with the diagnosis of migraines until September/camp.

Fletch coveted Hayes. Whether NP was having headaches or not, Fletch would have gone out and gotten him. He envisioned a 1-2-3 of Coots, Hayes, Patrick.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 1:07 PM ET
Sorry, I shoulda specified top-heavy draft. The other guys that went in the top 6 or so may not be generational, but they're all pretty damn good in my book.

Edit: And there's nothing revisionist about my comment. I was totally fine with the NoPa pick at the time, and I'm not going to pretend that I wasn't. The OP's post was about the current state of the team. And if you don't think that NoPa's current situation is among the major issues with this roster, then we can just agree to disagree and move on.

- Big_E_88

I will agree with that...But like most picks, it is crap shoot. He also had zero time to bake in the AHL and show he had the pro game...Even G had to prove himself for a spell...I also thin kthe -30 Million or what ever it was this season shows how much this kid is just "off". his brain did not appear to be at NHL level and he was out of position and making bad plays...maybe it gets cleaned up in the offseason, and maybe it doesn't. I just don' think this team is markedly different with him here or not here when I say how this team played from the COVID outbreak on. This team was soft and I use the term team very lightly...it was a collection of players on the ice together wearing the same uniform. To me, that would be the number one thing to fix.
hereticpride
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: HEY. Does this pole still work?, NJ
Joined: 01.14.2011

May 11 @ 1:08 PM ET
Hayes will have minor surgery...


adding some balls.

- wcorvette

Well I called that. Love icing injured guys in need of surgery for half a season. Always works out great.
JW98FlyerFan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.02.2013

May 11 @ 1:09 PM ET
A bit of revisionist history here.

NP first started complaining about "headaches" in June 2019. Nobody had any inkling that they would linger and force him to miss the entire season. He wasn't listed as "week-to-week" until September/camp.

Fletch coveted Hayes. Whether NP was having headaches or not, Fletch would have gone out and gotten him. He envisioned a 1-2-3 of Coots, Hayes, Patrick.

- Tomahawk

I think he knew NoPa coming back might have been a long shot...yes, hayes was the guy he wanted because there was someone else that was going to be more $...he would have been hopeful on NoPa as the #3, but I think they knew they had G and Laughts if he didn't
landros 2
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Centre of universe
Joined: 02.07.2007

May 11 @ 1:13 PM ET
Well I called that. Love icing injured guys in need of surgery for half a season. Always works out great.
- hereticpride



Why even play him after they were eliminated unless it’s surgery to have a mole removed.
PLindbergh31
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Company Stogeville, NJ
Joined: 02.01.2008

May 11 @ 1:17 PM ET
Wow....

Broad Street Hockey
@BroadStHockey
· 7m
Provorov: "I think I had a solid season"
StepfordSam
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 02.06.2017

May 11 @ 1:17 PM ET
Why even play him after they were eliminated unless it’s surgery to have a mole removed.
- landros 2


Yeah, this has always been a problem with the Flyers. They leave it entirely up to the players to decide as long as they’re medically cleared to do so. And of course with hockey culture no player that can play even a little bit is going to say they can’t play, lest they be labeled a “girly man”.
StepfordSam
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 02.06.2017

May 11 @ 1:18 PM ET
Fletcher has to sell hope. Because flyers seasontickets is not very hot after the price hike, and flyers on ice product.
- THE EVIL WITHIN


This whole thing smells like a Dave Scott Joint. He has to be PISSED there is no playoffs this year. The underlings are falling in line and it’s all in on selling the product next season.
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

May 11 @ 1:20 PM ET
But with Couts you could see the potential in his first few NHL seasons which is why the team stuck with him. You stated NoPa "has all the tools". Really? How do you know this? When has NoPa demonstrated in any consistent way at the NHL level that he has any tools? There are too many 22 year olds in this league that are significantly contributing to their teams for more than 1 year already, so to me age is not an issue here. As Billy Beane once asked "If he is a good player then why doesn't he play good?"
- jd250



How many of them missed almost 2 seasons of hockey where they didn't play at all?
konalover711
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PHX, AZ
Joined: 10.20.2015

May 11 @ 1:22 PM ET
Those years did this organization no favors, we had no realistic shot of winning anything during the time frame and his draft picks have turned into a bunch of question marks.
- ClaudeFather

That kid question mark has a high ceiling and a low floor. Hope he is not a bust too...
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14  Next