To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.

So they're a project goalie away?

First off, you're crazy.

Second is, the $ doesn't match so take JVR+Ghost+Hart????

Done.
- DrMidnite

So the Leafs taking JvR and Ghost is perfectly reasonable? They had JvR and let him walk for nothing. I might be crazy. I'm not stupid. Try to make a point without insulting people.

To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.
- optimus-reim

😆

Not sure what Todd means when he says the offense relied solely on matthews marner and nylander after tavares went down. Kerfoot, spezza and galchenyuk had a bunch of points.

Their offense was ok outside of game 7 it was the defense that cost them games. Dermott and sandin made mistakes that resulted in multiple goals and of course galchenyuk had the break giveaway as well.

If we want to put the blame on the offense I would focus more on the top line rather than the bottom 6. The bottom 6 outscored Matthews and marner.

Keefe is to blame as well. He changes his lines way too often. He also made the mistake of breaking up the galchenyuk, kerfoot, nylander line that was dominating the early part of the series. He wanted to get Matthews and marner going so he broke that line up to move nylander up. It then resulted in neither line doing much after that.

The Shanaplan has had 7 yrs and couldn’t get this right. Dubas traded for JT before resigning Mathews, Marner & Nylander which was just stupidity and poor money management. So MLSE board should fire these 2 to start then let the new Pres hire his GM and GM hire the new coach. Keep Mathews, Nylander, Kerfoot, Hyman, Foligno, Spezza Engvall Campbell the D core and the young prospects, everyone else is tradebait.

To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.
- optimus-reim

Are you drunk?

Mathews has 3 more years in Toronto, could he re sign, yup, could he also want to end up in Arizona, LA or New York, yup, no one but him really knows, but if you suspect he may want to leave after 3 more years its more likely than not he is traded after 2.

why not at least look around and see what someone might offer? if LA offered;
Byfield (local bopy)
Kaliyev
Kempe
Grans
and their top 10 pick this year
might be interesting but i'm sure Leaf fans will want 3x as much back which is unrealistic.
- Ross77

I'd actually consider that, and I don't want to trade Matthews. You take the cap space freed up and address other holes. We can't go on spending half the cap on 4 guys. Signing Tavares when the kids clearly weren't ready is 20/20 hindsight

Mathews has 3 more years in Toronto, could he re sign, yup, could he also want to end up in Arizona, LA or New York, yup, no one but him really knows, but if you suspect he may want to leave after 3 more years its more likely than not he is traded after 2.

why not at least look around and see what someone might offer? if LA offered;
Byfield (local bopy)
Kaliyev
Kempe
Grans
and their top 10 pick this year
might be interesting but i'm sure Leaf fans will want 3x as much back which is unrealistic.
- Ross77

1) Leafs don't need futures - they need Playoff success ASAP
2) IF they were trading a top-3 player they'd shop Marner before they'd shop Matthews

This was just mentioned on the Sabres board.

TO would you....

Buffalo gives, Sam Rienhart and a pick/ prospect
To gives, Marner
- hehateme

To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.
- optimus-reim

Pass me the crackpipe

Pass me the crackpipe
- Zezel

I had thought booze. But you're probably right that's it's something much harder than booze...

Todd and Sean, both of you are putting so much emphasis on the core's failure THIS year, and COMPLETELY ignoring the fact that the same "core" has failed to move passed the first round for the past 4 years in a row.

Oh ya, "surround" this "core" with the "right pieces" and this team will do wonders. Maybe, just maybe, after surrounding this "Core" with so many different pieces year after year, and failing to advance pass the first round year after year, the problem is not the complimentary players but perhaps the issue lies with the core itself???? Marner has failed to score a single goal in 18 playoff games, oh ya, no biggie, the "core" is fine. Tavares will just get better with age, I am sure.


And I guess all is well in net? Jack Campbell will just carry them to the promise land once that elusive pieces to the "Core" has been assembled????

Morgan Riley is basically a Victor Hedman, or a Kris Letang, or a John Carlson, or an Alex Pietrangelo or a (insert the name of the Stanley cup winner's #1 D man in the past 30 years). Yep, NO NEED to upgrade Leafs D AT ALL!!!

That is the problem with Leaf's analysts, they ALWAYS over estimate their own talent, tricking themselves that a depth player or two is all separates the Leafs from the promise land.

I think they need to change their philosophy on how they want to play and lessen the minutes of Matthews and Marner.

We saw it a bit this year as their goals against went down and they were able to hold onto leads, but I think they should take it even farther. Play a boring defensive game through all four lines, sacrifice offense and creativity for simple safe hockey.

In theory they could get more bang for their buck this way since generally forwards get paid more for offense than defense. Fill those bottom two lines with guys that can be trusted to not be scored on and play PK, but don't break the bank Play M&M only at 5 on 5 and on the PP, they'll be more rested and more effective.
I dont think it's a coincidence that Nylander was flying as he's averaged less than 17 mins a night all year while Marner was at 22+.

In the end it's really just about balance. Marchand Berg and Pasta average 18ish mins, same with Tbay's top guys. Yes it's because all four lines can all score, but if you don't have that, maybe you just need four lines that don't get scored on.

The Leafs can be the Harlem Globe Trotters of Hockey playing Charity Games all over the World. The Kansas City Scouts can be their foils.

Here's my predictions:

DEFINITELY Keep/re-sign:

JT, AM, MUZZ, BRODIE, CAMP, *MM, Spezz, Hyman, Foligno



Definitely TRADE/LET GO:

*Nylander, Anderson, Gal, RIELLY, Thornton.



Trade, Keep, or Leave:

The rest of the roster.



NEED TO ACQUIRE THROUGH TRADE OR FREE AGENCY:



1 x 1A or 1B goalie

1 x Top pairing D

1 x Top 6 winger

1 x Top 9 centre



* MM and WN :



If these two players are paid the same, they keep MM 99/100 times. The only reason they would (in my opinion) trade MM is strictly for $$$. One of these two have to go (preferably WN). MM's abilities will only improve over time. He's hard working, consistent productive and useful in most situations. Once he gets stronger and more confident, he'll become one of the best wingers for a decade or more. He's only traded if the Leafs can't find any way to make the money work long term after the inevitable retooling. WN is a truly talented, dangerous offensive threat and produces points. BUT, he plays a soft, perimeter game and his development is below average in grit, determination, consistency and defensive play. He does improve slightly every season but again his ability or desire to improve on these weaknesses is trending more slowly than expected. Because of his offensive output, he will require a significant raise on his next contract and it will not be worth it unless he takes a discount.

I don't have any inside sources, these are just my thoughts and opinions based on what I see from watching games, reading articles and analyses.

Thanks Todd!

Odd how you can have multiple different lineups, multiple different coaches, multiple different GM's and yet get the same result. Perhaps, just maybe there's another reason this keeps happening?

To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.
- optimus-reim

Here is a better trade proposal

To Toronto
Nothing

To Ottawa
Marner

The 11 Million in cap space is worth more then your original offer.

Here's my predictions:

DEFINITELY Keep/re-sign:

JT, AM, MUZZ, BRODIE, CAMP, *MM, Spezz, Hyman, Foligno



Definitely TRADE/LET GO:

*Nylander, Anderson, Gal, RIELLY, Thornton.



Trade, Keep, or Leave:

The rest of the roster.



NEED TO ACQUIRE THROUGH TRADE OR FREE AGENCY:



1 x 1A or 1B goalie

1 x Top pairing D

1 x Top 6 winger

1 x Top 9 centre



* MM and WN :



If these two players are paid the same, they keep MM 99/100 times. The only reason they would (in my opinion) trade MM is strictly for $$$. One of these two have to go (preferably WN). MM's abilities will only improve over time. He's hard working, consistent productive and useful in most situations. Once he gets stronger and more confident, he'll become one of the best wingers for a decade or more. He's only traded if the Leafs can't find any way to make the money work long term after the inevitable retooling. WN is a truly talented, dangerous offensive threat and produces points. BUT, he plays a soft, perimeter game and his development is below average in grit, determination, consistency and defensive play. He does improve slightly every season but again his ability or desire to improve on these weaknesses is trending more slowly than expected. Because of his offensive output, he will require a significant raise on his next contract and it will not be worth it unless he takes a discount.

I don't have any inside sources, these are just my thoughts and opinions based on what I see from watching games, reading articles and analyses.
- marklaprise

you can have DeBrusk for a 2nd

This was just mentioned on the Sabres board.

TO would you....

Buffalo gives, Sam Rienhart and a pick/ prospect
To gives, Marner
- hehateme

unless that pick in the top 5

So they're a project goalie away?

First off, you're crazy.

Second is, the $ doesn't match so take Couturier+Hart+2nd rnd pick????

Done.
- DrMidnite

To Toronto
Murray
White
Watson



To Ottawa
Marner




This gives Toronto a 1B goalie who has won the cup before. Between Campbell and Murray you have solid goaltending.
White gives you additional depth at center. Watson provides depth and physicality on the ice, and character in the locker room.
Both White and Watson are great team players and play the game to win which should aid in changing the culture around.

Mitch blows up playing with Norris and Tkatchuk who are both defensively responsible. Tkatchuk and co. would defend Marner which I believe would allow him to focus on what he does best.
- optimus-reim

Oh hell NO to Murray as he can't stay healthy and add 1st rnd pck

then we can talk.

Cordell criticizing the Leafs depth production... what series was he watching? the Leafs scored 18 goals in 7 games. 6 came from Matthews/Nylander/Marner. heading into game 7 they were averaging 2 goals/game from their secondary scorers. that's usually a slam dunk to win a playoff series unless your goalie poops himself.

No major shake ups. #16 and #34 are just entering their primes. You do not move 2 top 10 talents in the NHL who are 23 years old. That is crazy talk. Stay the course. I get the anger and wanting someone to blame for another huge let down, but this core group is the most talented Leafs group I've seen in my 39 years on this earth. Make adjustments around the core and take as many cracks at Lord Stanley as possible over the next 5 years. We just did two tear downs and rebuilds. There are zero guarantees in hockey. The 2013 loss to the Bruins was not their fault. 2018/2019 they were 20 years old and tried to carry a franchise into the playoffs vs Bruins teams with a Vezina goalie and whose top players were in their primes.

However, losing to Columbus in 2020 was brutal and not finding a way to beat Price was devastating. #16 and #34 have won pretty much everything over their short hockey careers in minor hockey through to junior. They have always just relied on their skill to win. I hope now they realize their skill won't alone won't get it down. Hopefully this has been a severe reality check and there is some personal reflection about what it will take to take this franchise to the next level.

Anyway, Thorton retires, Andersen not resigned, Engvall disappears. Promote Robertson, sign ufa Ullmark and run a 50/50 time share in the crease with Ullmark/Campbell. Sign Simmer to a 1 year minimal deal. Sign Foligno to a multi year deal if the money is right. Use the money from Andersen to find another 4-5 depth dman. If someone has to go it's #44. He has been there for it all. Sucks because he's been a good Leaf and teammate. However, he has no shot from the point and teams just collapse down low and take the cross seem pass away on the PP. Reilly has one year left in a good deal. He'll be looking for a big raise.