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Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jun 6 @ 11:08 AM ET
Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits:
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 6 @ 11:34 AM ET
Bill Meltzer: Quick Hits:
- bmeltzer


The length of the vacation seems far too short, Bill. I hope quality makes up for lack of duration.
Im back
Joined: 05.27.2021

Jun 6 @ 11:51 AM ET
Vacation time. Good for you bill. I will give you this… you definitely work way too hard
Im back
Joined: 05.27.2021

Jun 6 @ 11:57 AM ET
Bill I’d love to know your thoughts on raising the draft age…. I find it extremely ridiculous to have draft eligibility at 18 when the league has all these agreements of when players can play in ahl and stuff to protect the Canadian junior leagues and abroad. Why not just have the draft age 20? I get there are a very very few that could play in league at 18 or 19 so I don’t get the whole it stops them from making a living argument. I mean if that’s the case why have draft age 18? For example there could be a mcdavid that can play in league at 17 or 16 or 15. Why not have draft age then? See what I mean. Ultimately this would benefit the teams as they’d have more data on players as growth between 18-20 is humongous big and take less guess work out of trying to project a player. I mean they can’t even play in ahl until 20 anyways to protect the junior leagues where 98% of players wind up from 18-20
Ftown19125
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 09.17.2013

Jun 6 @ 12:11 PM ET
I wonder if 18 and legally being considered an adult has anything to do with it…
Bill Meltzer
Editor
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Joined: 07.13.2006

Jun 6 @ 12:18 PM ET
Bill I’d love to know your thoughts on raising the draft age…. I find it extremely ridiculous to have draft eligibility at 18 when the league has all these agreements of when players can play in ahl and stuff to protect the Canadian junior leagues and abroad. Why not just have the draft age 20? I get there are a very very few that could play in league at 18 or 19 so I don’t get the whole it stops them from making a living argument. I mean if that’s the case why have draft age 18? For example there could be a mcdavid that can play in league at 17 or 16 or 15. Why not have draft age then? See what I mean. Ultimately this would benefit the teams as they’d have more data on players as growth between 18-20 is humongous big and take less guess work out of trying to project a player. I mean they can’t even play in ahl until 20 anyways to protect the junior leagues where 98% of players wind up from 18-20
- Im back


The NHL Draft age was set at 20 pre-1979 but the WHA gained a competitive advantage by signing under-aged players. As part of a compromise to lower the NHL Draft age, the CHL/AHL age rule was created because a number of NHL team owners also owned CHL teams.

I think that arrangement has outlived its usefulness. But if you raise the NHL Draft age again, do CHL teams lose top prospects to Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, KHL?
GPerogie
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hightstown, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jun 6 @ 12:22 PM ET
Enjoy your vacation Bill.........Well earned Your work and efforts day in and day out to keep us fans happy is appreciated.
Im back
Joined: 05.27.2021

Jun 6 @ 12:30 PM ET
I wonder if 18 and legally being considered an adult has anything to do with it…
- Ftown19125


I wonder why that’s not in nfl?weird
Im back
Joined: 05.27.2021

Jun 6 @ 12:35 PM ET
The NHL Draft age was set at 20 pre-1979 but the WHA gained a competitive advantage by signing under-aged players. As part of a compromise to lower the NHL Draft age, the CHL/AHL age rule was created because a number of NHL team owners also owned CHL teams.

I think that arrangement has outlived its usefulness. But if you raise the NHL Draft age again, do CHL teams lose top prospects to Switzerland, Germany, Sweden, KHL?

- bmeltzer


That a legitimate question. I’d doubt they’d lose many players to European leagues. I believe they can go now can’t they? Matthews did didn’t he? Either way for the nhl teams whether scouting play in Europe or North America projecting 20 year old easier. I know some such as Burke have called for raising draft age. As I know it now they can go to Europe somehow anyways???
Nh_kong
Joined: 09.21.2020

Jun 6 @ 12:47 PM ET
Giant nothing-burger today.

Enjoy your vacation.
GPerogie
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Hightstown, NJ
Joined: 07.13.2010

Jun 6 @ 12:47 PM ET
That a legitimate question. I’d doubt they’d lose many players to European leagues. I believe they can go now can’t they? Matthews did didn’t he? Either way for the nhl teams whether scouting play in Europe or North America projecting 20 year old easier. I know some such as Burke have called for raising draft age. As I know it now they can go to Europe somehow anyways???
- Im back


The way of the NHL since the lockout I doubt there was risk of losing too many players of interest overseas, however the cap staying flat, salaries being fairly low for more recent contracts (some exceptions of course) some of the international leagues could easily try to make a play at getting stars over there. Probably a game of chicken Bettman doesn't' want to play. Keeping it where it is has little to no risk for the league so I wouldn't expect it to change, although I do wish Goalies rights were held longer (or drafted later) as the timeline for them is totally different than forwards and d men.
daddytc
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Sarasota, FL
Joined: 10.03.2014

Jun 6 @ 12:57 PM ET
Like most things in life, rarely are things so black & white, so why not allow special exemptions for certain situations instead of one size fits all hard rules? For example, allow a team a once every 5 year choice to draft an 18 or 19 year old (if the draft age is upped to 20), but with the caveat that that player has to be kept on the NHL roster for the entire year AND play so many games. Or, if the draft age stays at 18, allow a team a once every three year exemption to allow a junior age player to play in the AHL with the same time/games played requirement. By limiting when teams can use these exemptions, it would make it likely that teams truly used them when most needed (like the amnesty buyouts) and allow really special players to develop at a special pace.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Jun 6 @ 12:58 PM ET

Happy vacation! Well-earned break.

The Flyers-centered podcasts have really increased in volume and quality in the last few years, and I have to say I love that.

I don’t have a solid opinion about the draft age, but I would be interested in hearing the arguments for and against. Especially right now, following a pandemic when youth development is all over the place...if there was an opportune time to make a change, it may be now. Give this group added time.

konalover711
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Kailua Kona, HI
Joined: 10.20.2015

Jun 6 @ 1:00 PM ET
Hi Bill I know you're going on vacation,
But, can you give me your thought on the Magna Carta...
WTF
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:02 PM ET
https://theathletic.com/2...o-an-offseason-of-change/


The Athletic posted their trade possibilities

Flyers trade tiers: Who’s untouchable and who’s available heading into an offseason of change






The no-movement clause players
Claude Giroux: No, Giroux isn’t getting traded to Ottawa. There is a complicating factor entering the picture, though, in that Giroux’s contract is scheduled to expire at the end of the 2021-22 season, and it’s at least possible for Giroux to decide he wants to continue his career elsewhere once it does. But for now, he’s committed to the Flyers, and he has long expressed a desire to finish his career in Philadelphia if possible. Maybe that changes if the team struggles again next season, but I’m not expecting him to request a trade this summer, nor do I anticipate the Flyers asking him to waive his NMC. He was the team’s best player this season.

Kevin Hayes: The Flyers were satisfied with Giroux’s play in 2020-21; Hayes, not so much, even accounting for the fact he was playing through a core muscle injury. Alain Vigneault’s decision to scratch Hayes late in the season while publicly holding that the move was not injury-driven was telling. Still, the Flyers aren’t exactly flush with proven center depth, and Hayes has his no-movement clause. Tough to see him going anywhere. They’ll simply bet on a bounce back.
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:02 PM ET
The basically untouchables
Sean Couturier: As with Giroux, Couturier comes with the complicating factor of being up for an extension in 2022, and he’s in line for a substantial raise off his bargain of a $4.33 million cap hit. It’ll be a risk of a contract, given Couturier will be approaching 30 when he signs it.

That said, my read is that the Flyers are more than willing to commit to Couturier, and Couturier publicly stated in exit interviews that he’d like to stay in Philadelphia. Add in that he’s the team’s best true-talent player and it’s very difficult to see him included in the kind of “shake-up” trade the front office could pursue this summer. Barring a dramatic mid-summer philosophy shift (or a change of heart from the player himself), Couturier stays.



Joel Farabee: There’s something to be said for selling high on the only Flyers youngster who got better in 2020-21, but Farabee really does seem to just be scratching the surface of his two-way potential. I’m sure a lot of teams would love to acquire him, but you know who also loves him? The Flyers.

Carter Hart: Yes, Hart had a miserable season. But the Flyers still believe in him, and in any case, it wouldn’t make sense to sell low. Maybe if Hart’s camp drives an incredibly hard bargain in contract negotiations, the status quo changes, but after his 2020-21 campaign, it’s not like they have a ton of leverage. Hart will be re-signed and back to prove last season was a fluke.

Cam York: It’s not accurate to call any prospect truly untouchable; if Edmonton called up and offered Connor McDavid, for example, I can’t see Fletcher vetoing a deal just because York would be going the other way. But he’s the prospect the Flyers will do everything they can to keep out of trade negotiations. They’re high on his upside and feel like he fills a stylistic void in the defense. He’ll have a real shot to make the team out of training camp this September.
Im back
Joined: 05.27.2021

Jun 6 @ 1:03 PM ET
Hi Bill I know you're going on vacation,
But, can you give me your thought on the Magna Carta...
WTF

- konalover711

Or the inquisition?
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:03 PM ET
The ‘it would take a perfect set of circumstances’ tier
Oskar Lindblom: I don’t think the Flyers would reflexively dismiss a Lindblom trade possibility out of hand; objectively speaking, there are legitimate questions as to whether he’ll be able to return to full form in the wake of his cancer treatments. But justifiably, the entire organization absolutely loves the kid. His intangibles are off the charts, and if he can return to form — and the organization is betting he can, given a full offseason to train — he’s a coach’s dream as well, given his commitment to detail, willingness to attack the dirty areas and two-way acumen. Sentimentality only goes so far, to be sure, but I really don’t see Lindblom leaving this summer.

Ivan Provorov: He had a down season, and there are legitimate questions as to whether he can be a true No. 1 after he struggled in the absence of Matt Niskanen. There’s also the hard truth that if the Flyers want to shop at the top of the trade market, they’ll have to give to get, and Provorov is a highly valued asset. But I think the Flyers still view Provorov as a core piece and would be very hesitant to move him.

Travis Sanheim: Some may find his placement in this section surprising, but the Flyers’ front office remains very high on Sanheim. My read is that their view of his 2020-21 season falls far closer to the picture his strong advanced metrics paint than the narrative pushed forth by his most vehement critics. I don’t think he’d be off the table entirely, and he does have a contract negotiation looming this summer, but the Flyers value Sanheim.

Scott Laughton: It’s just difficult for me to see the Flyers signing him in April and then trading him a few months later, even if his deal lacks no-trade or no-movement protection. Plus, they see Laughton as integral to the culture they’re trying to foster in the dressing room. I would be shocked if he got moved.

Wade Allison: Here’s an interesting case, because while Allison was very impressive in his 14-game NHL stint at the end of the season by the eye test and the numbers, there likely was an element of “he was the only player on the team who didn’t have his soul crushed by the 2020-21 campaign” at play, which allowed him to look even better in comparison to his teammates. In other words, this could be a sell-high opportunity. That said, Allison brings so many elements lacking in the Philadelphia forward core — shooting ability, physicality, energy, a willingness to attack the front of the net — that I can’t see the Flyers moving him. But trying to cash out here wouldn’t be a ridiculous idea.
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:04 PM ET
The ‘if the deal is big enough’ tier
Travis Konecny: To be clear, it’s not that I think the Flyers want to trade Konecny. But if Fletcher wants to be aggressive in trade talks, Konecny’s name is going to come up. He’s young-ish (24), on a good contract and a clear top-six NHL forward, even in the wake of a disappointing season. Given the team’s depth on the wing — at the NHL level and in the prospect pool — he’s probably a more acceptable “big piece” to relinquish in a deal than, say, Provorov. Again, sometimes you have to give to get.

Philippe Myers: If Myers gets moved, my hunch is it would be in a package for that coveted top-pair defenseman, not a forward. But I don’t get the sense he’s off the table. Unlike some of the Flyers’ other youngsters who struggled in 2020-21, Myers doesn’t really have a track record to prove it was a fluke. This really might be all he is. Or he could bounce back and turn into the no-doubt-about-it top-four RHD the Flyers thought they had back in the second half of 2019-20. He has a wide range of outcomes, and if the Flyers are skeptical and find a team that falls solidly on the “he’ll definitely become a top-pair defenseman” side, maybe there’s a deal to be made.
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:05 PM ET
The ‘yeah, I could certainly see it’ tier
Shayne Gostisbehere: I was convinced last offseason that Gostisbehere’s time in Philadelphia had finally reached its end, but despite clear intent on the part of Fletcher to give Ghost a new home, he ultimately proved unable to find a taker that didn’t require the Flyers to include a valuable asset in the deal just to take on Gostisbehere’s contract. Ghost stayed and had a pretty solid rebound season. So, why is he in this section once again?

There are just a lot of factors that make Gostisbehere a logical candidate to be moved this summer. The Flyers need cap space, first and foremost, if they want to be aggressive; clearing Gostisbehere’s $4.5 million cap hit would provide that. York is coming and likely is ticketed for Ghost’s current role. There’s the acknowledgment on Fletcher’s part that the mix on defense probably wasn’t right. There’s the fact that Gostisbehere was healthy-scratched and waived this past season. The fact that his rebound season probably makes him easier to move.

Maybe Ghost ends up sticking around for another season. But he’s a logical cap casualty unless they find another way to clear up cash.


Nolan Patrick: Ah, the Nolan Patrick situation. There’s a lot of smoke around the idea that Patrick would welcome a change of scenery, and while there’s been no confirmation on that either way, it makes a degree of sense. Patrick’s time in Philadelphia has obviously not gone as hoped, in part because of injury/health and in part because he simply hasn’t lived up to pre-draft expectations. Maybe it would all come together for him somewhere else.

From the Flyers’ perspective, they’d be “selling low” on Patrick if they moved him now, but if something’s not working, it’s not working. I don’t think the Flyers have given up on the idea of Patrick living up to his potential in Philadelphia, but I also get the sense they’re far more willing to move him now than they were last offseason or during the 2020-21 campaign. His value isn’t incredibly high, but perhaps he ends up as the secondary piece in a larger deal.

Any non-York prospect: Sure, there are sub-tiers here. The Flyers still like Morgan Frost, and his value to the organization increases if Patrick is shipped out. Egor Zamula is highly valued. Tyson Foerster and Bobby Brink certainly won’t be given away. But the benefit of having a deep prospect pool — and Philadelphia still does — is that it increases the likelihood that the scouting department for a potential trade partner will find one or two players they’re higher on than the consensus. It’s probably time for the Flyers to cash in on some of these chips. There won’t be room for all of them at the NHL level, after all.

Any future draft picks: I don’t think anything is off the table when it comes to picks. I’m sure Fletcher — and certainly his scouting department — would love to hang on to pick No. 13 in this year’s draft. But if he was open to moving the team’s first-round pick at the deadline before the floor fell out from under the team in March — and I’m confident he was — then he’d certainly be willing to relinquish it for a true long-term, high-end solution on defense. And if he’d be willing to move their first, Philadelphia’s other picks would presumably be fair game as well.
2Real
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: IT'S GRITTIN TIME, CA
Joined: 07.14.2007

Jun 6 @ 1:05 PM ET
see it's ok to go out of your homes don't be scared
MBFlyerfan
Season Ticket Holder
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: All Lives Matter, NJ
Joined: 03.17.2006

Jun 6 @ 1:06 PM ET
The ‘let’s see how the expansion plays out’ tier
James van Riemsdyk: For my money, JvR seems to be the most likely candidate to be poached by Seattle. He’s a quality player, his contract isn’t onerous for what he provides, and I don’t expect the Flyers to protect him. JvR is still a quality player, and losing him would hurt the Flyers, but it would also open up much-needed cap space for the kinds of additions the Flyers seem intent on making this summer.

Where things get interesting is if Seattle goes elsewhere with its selection, taking a cheap, younger option. Does van Riemsdyk become a trade possibility if Fletcher wants to clear out cap space? The same qualities that theoretically make JvR attractive to the Kraken would likely hold for other clubs, even if that $7 million cap hit is a hefty one. Again, though, if the 32-year old van Riemsdyk hit the UFA market after a 25-goal, 63-point season (his 82-game pace in 2020-21) with strong underlying numbers, does a two-year, $14 million contract really seem all that outlandish? Presumably, JvR could be moved.

Jakub Voracek: I’m also not expecting Voracek to be protected by the Flyers in expansion, nor do I expect Seattle to select him (three years remaining with an $8.25 million cap hit for a 31-year-old is a dicey proposition). And that’s not an easy contract to move via trade. But if cap space needs to be cleared, perhaps Voracek does become an option, if Fletcher gets creative. Parting ways with Voracek certainly would qualify as a big-time “shake it up” move, and while I’m not exactly expecting it, he’s the easiest member of the “core” to envision the team looking to trade, given his lack of a no-move clause and advancing age.

Justin Braun: I still hold that it’s not out of the question that Seattle ultimately settles on Braun, liking his cheap one-year contract and unique standing as an actually useful defensive defenseman, rather than one who simply delivers poor results all around and is called “defensive” by default. If he’s not taken, however, then it really boils down to how the 2021-22 defense shapes up. I doubt the Flyers would have an issue bringing Braun back — the coaches and front office very much appreciated how he held down the fort in a role beyond his talents out of sheer necessity in 2020-21 — but if Fletcher ends up adding multiple defensemen in his quest to reshape the blue line, perhaps Braun becomes expendable, and in that case, I’m sure there’d be a team or two willing to take him on.

The ‘sure, they’re available, but who’s interested?’ tier
Nicolas Aubé-Kubel: To be clear, Aubé-Kubel almost certainly still has value around the league; I imagine he turned the heads of at least a few clubs with his impressive rookie campaign in 2019-20. He even could be a plausible option for Seattle in the expansion draft. But his dismal sophomore season moves him back into the “bottom-sixer at best” tier for Philadelphia, and the hard truth is that those guys are always candidates to be traded if another team wants an extra, useful piece added in a bigger deal. I’m not expecting the Flyers to shop Aubé-Kubel around, but his job security dramatically decreased due to his poor 2020-21.

Robert Hägg: For Hägg, it really just comes down to a numbers game and where he ultimately fits. If he becomes an extraneous piece, maybe the Flyers look to move him, but seventh defensemen don’t have a ton of open-market value anyway. My guess is he sticks around, but he’s certainly far from untouchable.

Connor Bunnaman: He’s in the same boat as Aubé-Kubel, except with no fantastic rookie season and even less lineup security.
Pelle31Forever
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: PA
Joined: 05.20.2014

Jun 6 @ 1:08 PM ET
I wonder why that’s not in nfl?weird
- Im back


Compare the bodies of the NFL to that of the NHL and see how many 18 year olds could handle getting wrecked by a linebacker.
NC Flyers Fan
Philadelphia Flyers
Joined: 07.19.2018

Jun 6 @ 1:39 PM ET
https://theathletic.com/2...o-an-offseason-of-change/


The Athletic posted their trade possibilities

- MBFlyerfan


I don’t see any shockers among his opinion categories. I would put Sanheim and Myers at the same likelihood level. For Sanheim, similar in reason to Konecny.


PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: The only conspiracy against you is the one preventing you from taking an IQ test, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 6 @ 1:43 PM ET
Compare the bodies of the NFL to that of the NHL and see how many 18 year olds could handle getting wrecked by a linebacker.
- Pelle31Forever


They (NFL draftees) don't have to play right away though... They could stay in college after being drafted, until they graduate/sign the first contract. (Just like NHL draftees stay in juniors/college).

But they don't. They most often wait to declare. Why? Because other good players do too, and they get more exposure/experience. (If most of the draftees were 20, a 18 year old NHL draftee would not want to declare earlier because he might not comparable then in performance and certainty.)

Afaik, It is because everybody does it that the system has got stuck in this bad equilibrium. There are no structural reasons. It needs a nudge to break this chain. Market forces won't be able to do it themselves.
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