Patrick had 30 points his rookie season. Elias Pettersson (drafted 5th overall) had 66 points. Nico Hischier (drafted right before Patrick) had 52 points. Cale Makar, a defenseman drafted 4th overall that year, had 50 points his rookie season. So based on this, I would say Patrick did not have a good rookie season based on being the number 2 overall pick.
- jd250

judging on draft position and the others having more points, that doesn't speak to the season Patrick had that speaks to the season other had and speaks to going back in time and picking someone else. Thirty plus point in a rookie season with a MEH team is solid and to the point did not show anyone he was a bust.

Holmgren made a good amount of those types of trades during his tenure as GM.
- mickel25

Name one trade where he brought in a 30 goal scorer or Norris type defenseman and gave away literally nothing. None come to my mind

Can he? I thought you had to be 20 before Dec 31 of the season?
- PT21

I didn't know that. SO I guess he can't. It just seems unfair to the player to deny them the ability to play in the league after they already spent a season there because of an age rule that only applies to the CHL's.

The same could have and was said about Hextall's drafts. You have to wait and see how the kids develop. people were creaming their jeans with frost, Patrick and Farabee, etc
- corduroy

note the bolded SO FAR

You cant just compare rookie seasons though. Every player is different and develops differently. Maybe our development process is not up to par. You could probably argue Patrick should have spent time in the AHL instead of being pushed to the NHL immediately. How the team uses the player also plays a factor in how they produce.

Question for the group. Who would you rather have right now? Mark Stone or Nathan MacKinnon?

Leclair most definitely.
- MBFlyerfan

So basically 20+ years ago...thats a long long time and we gave up Recchi in that deal so we gave up a quality proven NHL player

In that case, Leclair was an emerging star. And Recchi was an established one. Hockey trade, dunno if any team really discovered something the other didn't.

So, I meant when one team sees something in the future, and bets/gambles and wins huge. Like how the Seidenberg trade worked out for the Bruins. He became part of their 1st pairing D in a cup run, and yet was a marginal NHL player before that.

Belichick feasts on guys who are let go from the Eagles. Patrick Chung was a disaster here. And then, starting safety for how many trophies for the Pats?
- PT21

The Forsberg Nashville trade

Question for the group. Who would you rather have right now? Mark Stone or Nathan MacKinnon?
- mickel25

Mackinnon

Patrick had 30 points his rookie season. Elias Pettersson (drafted 5th overall) had 66 points. Nico Hischier (drafted right before Patrick) had 52 points. Cale Makar, a defenseman drafted 4th overall that year, had 50 points his rookie season. So based on this, I would say Patrick did not have a good rookie season based on being the number 2 overall pick.
- jd250

I would argue the reason why the Devils chose Hichier over Patrick injuries aside is, they may have still had high hopes for Pavel Zacha, who was built like Nolan Patrick.

I would argue the reason why the Devils chose Hichier over Patrick injuries aside is, they may have still had high hopes for Pavel Zacha, who was built like Nolan Patrick.
- SuperSchennBros

Pretty clear they just viewed Hischier as the better player, they were correct.

In that case, Leclair was an emerging star. And Recchi was an established one. Hockey trade, dunno if any team really discovered something the other didn't.

So, I meant when one team sees something in the future, and bets/gambles and wins huge. Like how the Seidenberg trade worked out for the Bruins. He became part of their 1st pairing D in a cup run, and yet was a marginal NHL player before that.

Belichick feasts on guys who are let go from the Eagles. Patrick Chung was a disaster here. And then, starting safety for how many trophies for the Pats?
- PT21

he was not an merging star. In fact he was the 3rd piece in that deal.

I would put Sanheim as a miss also. He has certainly not developed into a defenseman you would take in the 1st round. In 2017 we know Patrick was a miss for sure, but even Frost was picked later in the 1st round and he has done squat so far also. Hextall's last draft in 2018 might have been his best in terms of 1st round picks, because he got Farabee and O'Brien. Farabee is certainly trending to become a worthy 1st round pick, and though O'Brien has taken a lot longer to develop, he is going in the right direction now and I think he will make the big club within 2 seasons. I think Fletcher's first round picks, York and Foerster, are both good picks that are trending in the right direction.
- jd250

I 100% disagree on Sanheim. He is a legit top 4 dman chosen at 17. He has put up the 4th most points by a dman from that draft class (behind Ekblad, DeAngelo, and Montour), and played the 3rd most games (Ekblad, Montour).

I think he will anchor our 2nd pair for the foreseeable future (barring a trade of course)

So basically 20+ years ago...thats a long long time and we gave up Recchi in that deal so we gave up a quality proven NHL player
- hfc355

You asked, I answered.

I 100% disagree on Sanheim. He is a legit top 4 dman chosen at 17. He has put up the 4th most points by a dman from that draft class (behind Ekblad, DeAngelo, and Montour), and played the 3rd most games (Ekblad, Montour).

I think he will anchor our 2nd pair for the foreseeable future (barring a trade of course)
- MBFlyerfan

Sanheim as a miss lol wtf is going on here. He was a great pick.

I did that for awhile in order to get free trial periods of Sirius on my work PC.

Eventually they figured out people were doing this and stopped the process, but it took like two years.

I wonder if they’re desperate again enough that the ability is back again...
- Hesh_

Lol me too that was years ago. Good times

I would put Sanheim as a miss also. He has certainly not developed into a defenseman you would take in the 1st round. In 2017 we know Patrick was a miss for sure, but even Frost was picked later in the 1st round and he has done squat so far also. Hextall's last draft in 2018 might have been his best in terms of 1st round picks, because he got Farabee and O'Brien. Farabee is certainly trending to become a worthy 1st round pick, and though O'Brien has taken a lot longer to develop, he is going in the right direction now and I think he will make the big club within 2 seasons. I think Fletcher's first round picks, York and Foerster, are both good picks that are trending in the right direction.
- jd250

you're stretching it to label sandheim a miss. look whos drafted after him. He wasnt a miss. But there were a group of fans/media who almost labelled him untouchable for a couple of years. He is far from that.

Question for the group. Who would you rather have right now? Mark Stone or Nathan MacKinnon?
- mickel25

Serious, dude? Mackinnon every time. He is still young, and Avs are showing their lack of playoff experience and youth by getting rattled by a veteran club. But individually, there is no comparison.

he was not an merging star. In fact he was the 3rd piece in that deal.
- hello it's me 2050

I just looked at his numbers. You are completely right. He was already 25, and had not scored 20 goals in any season. He put up 3 successive seasons of 50+ goals and 2 of 40+. Habs would never have traded him if they knew this was in his future.

So, yeah, definitely Leclair then.

The Forsberg Nashville trade
- ClaudeFather

For Upshall and Parent?!

Patrick had 30 points his rookie season. Elias Pettersson (drafted 5th overall) had 66 points. Nico Hischier (drafted right before Patrick) had 52 points. Cale Makar, a defenseman drafted 4th overall that year, had 50 points his rookie season. So based on this, I would say Patrick did not have a good rookie season based on being the number 2 overall pick.
- jd250

Petersson didn't play in the 2017-18 season nor did Makar. So how do their rookie seasons lead you to believe that in 2017 you KNEW Patrick was a bust?

For Upshall and Parent?!
- PT21

https://thehockeywriters....-kimonen-trade-revisited/

Yes, how true. Most good teams attack the middle of the o-zone, but not the Flyers. No, it seems their only play is to muck in the corners and sweep the puck around the boards to the point and take a shot, that more often than not gets blocked or misses the net. This Flyers team seriously lacks speed, grit and top end skill. Did you watch Saad last night for Colorado? He is a FA this summer, and a player I have posted the Flyers should target, along with Jayden Schwartz, to bring in some needed speed and skill.
- jd250

The big question is tho…what is the price? Free agents generally you over pay and just can’t do that. This team already cap strapped. Even if Jake g Jvr ghost all moved somehow turning around and over paying for saad and Schwartz type players puts you right back in almost same position and the cycle continues. Now if we had stud 1c and 1d with the skills you’re trying to acquire with saad Schwartz then I can see maybe but since we don’t I’d try to take the $ and get those pieces first. In other words if gonna overspend do it on top talent and go from there

Man I really really wanted us to trade for additional 1st that year to get Rantanen. I was dead set on Provy at 7. But was willing to trade whatever to get an extra pick to snag Rantanen. I would have offered Schenn or Simmonds in any deal to get him!
- arichardson22

Remember when we could’ve had ekblad but the deal breaker was we wouldn’t throw in Simmons… yeah good times.

Name one trade where he brought in a 30 goal scorer or Norris type defenseman and gave away literally nothing. None come to my mind
- hfc355

Pronger? We didnt really give anything too substatial. Lupul who spent more time hurt than on the ice, Sbisa and two firsts which ended up being Emerson Etem and John Moore

Flyer also got Kimmo Timonen and Scott Hartnell for a 1st round pick that ended up being Jonathon Blum

At the end of the day Id say these trades amounted to giving up nothing