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Forums :: Blog World :: Ryan Wilson: List of untouchable players heading into 2020-21 for the Penguins
Author Message
MacPatty
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 05.21.2015

Jun 9 @ 1:28 PM ET
Laine is Vanek 2.0

A one dimensional PP specialist.

- Feds91Stammer


Sure to an extent, which is fine because a right handed sniper is exactly what the Pens PP could use. He also has never played with a player like Crosby or Malkin before. He is also only 23 and already has 4 seasons scoring at a +30 goal pace.

He has been stuck in Winnipeg and Columbus... I think he would reach his full potential in Pittsburgh.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 1:29 PM ET
If these guys suck why is it dreaming? hahaha I actually know its an unrealistic proposal.
- MattStrat

Because Jones perceived value is that of a Norris candidate when in reality he’s a 2nd pair guy.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 1:29 PM ET
Sure to an extent, which is fine because a right handed sniper is exactly what the Pens PP could use. He also has never played with a player like Crosby or Malkin before. He is also only 23 and already has 4 seasons scoring at a +30 goal pace.

He has been stuck in Winnipeg and Columbus... I think he would reach his full potential in Pittsburgh.

- MacPatty

You think Crosby or Malkin magically allow him to produce more than Scheifele and Wheeler?
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jun 9 @ 1:34 PM ET
You think Crosby or Malkin magically allow him to produce more than Scheifele and Wheeler?
- Feds91Stammer


His production was very, very good with those Jets studs.
Wolfpack5
Carolina Hurricanes
Location: Burlington, NC
Joined: 07.07.2012

Jun 9 @ 1:37 PM ET
Any similarities between players RF traded for/drafted in his previous spot? Might give an inclination of his type of player. But I guess it’s safe to assume he would take the best player on the best contract which should be zucker.
- 10inchTerror


His only other experience as gm is the analytical darling 9 year rebuild Canes. Based on what I remember he liked futures he never really made a bad move as a gm. But I think he was heavily impended in making splashes because Karmanos was the owner at the time. Based on I feel like he’s going to value draft picks or nearly ready prospects a lot higher than players. And rather than saying he’ll take BPA on good contracts. I see him taking guys with best trade value. And taking advantage of a flat cap era to fleece teams in exchange for dead cap. That’s something he did a lot in Carolina. That said he could potentially be totally different assuming he has true free rein with Seattle ownership.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jun 9 @ 1:39 PM ET
Sure to an extent, which is fine because a right handed sniper is exactly what the Pens PP could use. He also has never played with a player like Crosby or Malkin before. He is also only 23 and already has 4 seasons scoring at a +30 goal pace.

He has been stuck in Winnipeg and Columbus... I think he would reach his full potential in Pittsburgh.

- MacPatty


Crosby and Malkin don't elevate players like they did in their prime. This idea has been debunked by I believe it was Pensburgh who did the analysis.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 1:43 PM ET
His production was very, very good with those Jets studs.
- MattStrat

Yeah he’s a solid 35 goal scorer.
DeflatedPucks
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: NYC, NY
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jun 9 @ 1:49 PM ET
ZAR is such a weird player for them to take IMO. ZAR is the guy you want when you have the rest of the team in place. He's the specialist you get to put a strong team over the top. I would think in an expansion draft you're trying to find undervalued goal scorers to increase your asset value so even if you decide you don't actually want the player you can flip him.
- Victoro311

truer words have never been spoken.
DeflatedPucks
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: NYC, NY
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jun 9 @ 1:49 PM ET
Crosby and Malkin don't elevate players like they did in their prime. This idea has been debunked by I believe it was Pensburgh who did the analysis.
- j.boyd919

sad but 100% true
DeflatedPucks
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: NYC, NY
Joined: 04.29.2016

Jun 9 @ 1:54 PM ET
His production was very, very good with those Jets studs.
- MattStrat

so many studs in this league. bless
MacPatty
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 05.21.2015

Jun 9 @ 2:00 PM ET
You think Crosby or Malkin magically allow him to produce more than Scheifele and Wheeler?
- Feds91Stammer


Pretty sure he only played with those guys on the PP. That was one of his frustrations, that he never got time playing with one of the top centers. I believe Little was his most common center back in Winnipeg.

I don't think that Crosby or Malkin automatically turn him into a perennial 50 goal scorer but I do think he would consistently score 30-40 goals with upside of 50 goals if everything comes together.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jun 9 @ 2:02 PM ET

- MacPatty

What Feds said. He’s a good goal scorer, and bringing that dimension intrigues me and is needed, but I’m not going to give up a whole lot for a guy that is a negative in literally every other facet of play.
j.boyd919
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Tampa, FL
Joined: 06.14.2011

Jun 9 @ 2:38 PM ET
Pretty sure he only played with those guys on the PP. That was one of his frustrations, that he never got time playing with one of the top centers. I believe Little was his most common center back in Winnipeg.

I don't think that Crosby or Malkin automatically turn him into a perennial 50 goal scorer but I do think he would consistently score 30-40 goals with upside of 50 goals if everything comes together.

- MacPatty


Little, Ehlers, and Scheifele were his top 3 F linemates from 2016-2019. He played a ton with Scheifele, but not much with Wheeler as they are both RWs.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 2:50 PM ET
What Feds said. He’s a good goal scorer, and bringing that dimension intrigues me and is needed, but I’m not going to give up a whole lot for a guy that is a negative in literally every other facet of play.
- Victoro311

Rust also produces the same P1/60 at 5v5 without being completely useless defensively.

Laine as a PP specialist is a luxury and the pens already have a formidable PP.
MattStrat
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: ...serial abuser...and misuser...of the ellipsis , NF
Joined: 12.12.2014

Jun 9 @ 2:52 PM ET
so many studs in this league. bless
- DeflatedPucks



hahaha
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Jun 9 @ 3:07 PM ET
If I was told by the Seattle GM that they were going to take Carter if he's exposed, I think we don't have a choice but to protect him. Carter needs to be back next season. That said, I'm unsure why an expansion team would take a 36 year old expiring contract. I understand the need for veteran presences on a new team, and the Stanley Cup resume is something the decision makers will put a lot f weight on, but I just don't think gassing a pick on 36 year old with one year of term would be wise. It would be a win now move for Seattle in their first year of existence. I get that Vegas went to the Cup final their very first year, but I think would be foolish for Francis to operate off the assumption that he can recreate Karlson, Marchessault, and MAF falling into his lap and have an instant Cup contender.
- Victoro311

They pick 30 players and roster size is 23. Getting a guy like Carter who you can immediately flip to a contender for futures is a viable strategy IMO. How many teams could use a middle six center at a 2.5 cap hit as a rental?
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Jun 9 @ 3:17 PM ET
6 untouchables on a team that hasn't seen the second round in 3 years seems a bit much. Should be just Sid, Geno, Letang.

I can see the arguments on it being very hard to replace what Carter and Rust do for their price. But if you actually believe your window goes beyond this year these guys don't help past this one.

I don't know if there is a Jake trade available I would make, but no way he should be considered untouchable.
jmatchett383
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Newark, DE
Joined: 03.09.2010

Jun 9 @ 3:18 PM ET
They pick 30 players and roster size is 23. Getting a guy like Carter who you can immediately flip to a contender for futures is a viable strategy IMO. How many teams could use a middle six center at a 2.5 cap hit as a rental?
- Tojo.


Can you retain cap hit a second time? Trade Carter while retaining 50% of his current cap hit, NOW you're tallking.
MacPatty
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 05.21.2015

Jun 9 @ 3:20 PM ET
Little, Ehlers, and Scheifele were his top 3 F linemates from 2016-2019. He played a ton with Scheifele, but not much with Wheeler as they are both RWs.
- j.boyd919


Yeah, fair enough. Was that even strength or including PP time? Doesn't make a difference, I am no expert on the Jets, just thought I recalled him being pissed about not playing with a top center.
MacPatty
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 05.21.2015

Jun 9 @ 3:24 PM ET
What Feds said. He’s a good goal scorer, and bringing that dimension intrigues me and is needed, but I’m not going to give up a whole lot for a guy that is a negative in literally every other facet of play.
- Victoro311


Yeah, I am just craving having a guy that can just go out and snipe a goal out of nowhere like Kessel used to for us. Seems like come playoff time we have been missing that one shot going in... Laine probably has a top 5 shot in the league.

Anyways, it's a pipe dream... I just like the potential of it.
Victoro311
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: San Diego, CA
Joined: 06.17.2014

Jun 9 @ 3:48 PM ET
They pick 30 players and roster size is 23. Getting a guy like Carter who you can immediately flip to a contender for futures is a viable strategy IMO. How many teams could use a middle six center at a 2.5 cap hit as a rental?
- Tojo.

I know the option exists but I'm just not sure they would pick someone just to trade them.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 3:57 PM ET
Yeah, I am just craving having a guy that can just go out and snipe a goal out of nowhere like Kessel used to for us. Seems like come playoff time we have been missing that one shot going in... Laine probably has a top 5 shot in the league.

Anyways, it's a pipe dream... I just like the potential of it.

- MacPatty

Laine is a soft perimeter player so don’t think you want that.
Tojo.
Pittsburgh Penguins
Location: Aliquippa, PA
Joined: 11.11.2014

Jun 9 @ 4:09 PM ET
I know the option exists but I'm just not sure they would pick someone just to trade them.
- Victoro311

You almost have to because you can't keep all 30. Vegas traded 5 guys they drafted before the season and openly stated part of their draft strategy was to load up on defensemen because they would have the best value in trades. Or flip them at the deadline. Point is Carter would have value to them.

Now they might find someone they like better from Pittsburgh, but sounds like we aren't taking that chance.
MacPatty
Pittsburgh Penguins
Joined: 05.21.2015

Jun 9 @ 4:19 PM ET
Laine is a soft perimeter player so don’t think you want that.
- Feds91Stammer


Again, so was Kessel... probably moreso. A team should be able to absorb one softie if they can flat out snipe the puck.

I do think that in the right system with the right guys around him he would be much less soft.
Feds91Stammer
Detroit Red Wings
Location: "China was as proactive as possible" - Rinosaur, SC
Joined: 02.01.2012

Jun 9 @ 4:21 PM ET
Again, so was Kessel... probably moreso. A team should be able to absorb one softie if they can flat out snipe the puck.

I do think that in the right system with the right guys around him he would be much less soft.

- MacPatty

Kessel could also fly and pass. Laine cannot do either.
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