Bill Meltzer: Musings & Quick Hits: Couturier, Showcase Roster, TIFH and More

Well said on Couturier Bill. I'm in complete agreement.

I have a long list of players on this roster who I would move before I would even THINK about trading Sean. He is so reliable, so dedicated and such a great teammate.

A case by case basis is correct. In this case they should move on. Personally i hope he resigns and he extracts as much money from the flyers as he can. Same with Giroux.

What is the Flyers plan? Is it to build around the same core for the next 3 years to try to make a cup run? Is it to continue to wallow in mediocrity hoping for luck?

The GM has to know he has a short shelf life. So I can easily see him "go for it" and get rid of young players, picks, and prospects to appease the captain and ex selke.

They are not going to tear it down nor do they need to. Selling high on ex selke and maybe Giroux at the deadline (depends where they sit) building it back up with what is in house, free agency, trades you can turn it around sooner rather than later.

Any objective person can see this team is so far away from contending. None of it will matter if Hart doesn't turn out to be a top end goalie. Everyone can say no worries or he will be fine. Reality is they should be worried.

Tough to get better when you trade your best player. While players a lot better then Couturier have been traded in their prime I’m still not seeing him as the issue or his upcoming contract as being a problem( unless it passes 8.5 mil a year, which I don’t see)
I do think the Flyers need change. As far as moving Coot’s that would signal an organizational shift that I don’t think is necessary and frankly would practically waste any of the good from what Hextall did accomplish. The Flyers have a lot of young, solid assets and should be focusing on building and adding to the young nucleus using what they have to work with. I’m not quite as high on the young d core as some and still see that as where the Flyers should be focusing.
If Coot’s does indeed balk at a new contract, then that changes everything. To me he’d be in the same boat as Seth Jones and will have already played his last game as a Flyer.

Tough to get better when you trade your best player. While players a lot better then Couturier have been traded in their prime I’m still not seeing him as the issue or his upcoming contract as being a problem( unless it passes 8.5 mil a year, which I don’t see)
I do think the Flyers need change. As far as moving Coot’s that would signal an organizational shift that I don’t think is necessary and frankly would practically waste any of the good from what Hextall did accomplish. The Flyers have a lot of young, solid assets and should be focusing on building and adding to the young nucleus using what they have to work with. I’m not quite as high on the young d core as some and still see that as where the Flyers should be focusing.
If Coot’s does indeed balk at a new contract, then that changes everything. To me he’d be in the same boat as Seth Jones and will have already played his last game as a Flyer.
- landros 2

This is why he needs to be traded, get what we can for him while the value is high. We are headed down the same path as Hextall, playoff bubble team. Say we have a down year again and he wants out, this is going to be quite a blunder. I don’t see the light at the end of the tunnel as others do, this needs to be bottomed out and start over.

Tough to get better when you trade your best player. While players a lot better then Couturier have been traded in their prime I’m still not seeing him as the issue or his upcoming contract as being a problem( unless it passes 8.5 mil a year, which I don’t see)
I do think the Flyers need change. As far as moving Coot’s that would signal an organizational shift that I don’t think is necessary and frankly would practically waste any of the good from what Hextall did accomplish. The Flyers have a lot of young, solid assets and should be focusing on building and adding to the young nucleus using what they have to work with. I’m not quite as high on the young d core as some and still see that as where the Flyers should be focusing.
If Coot’s does indeed balk at a new contract, then that changes everything. To me he’d be in the same boat as Seth Jones and will have already played his last game as a Flyer.
- landros 2

He isn't the issue, its a matter of selling high. The Flyers are the definition of a hampster wheel.

Look where they have placed with him the last x amount of years. If they want to build around him then fine. How they do that we shall see. Just don't see a Couturier Hayes center combo contending for the cup. The center depth is weak. There is really nothing but question marks after those 2 center wise.

Well said on Couturier Bill. I'm in complete agreement.
- MJL

Of course you would agree, since you are the same person.

Coots is not the issue. He is so hard to play against as many high rated players have said. Bergeron, ROR and Coots are very valuable players on teams.

I really don’t believe in making big decisions based on limited performances. Look at someone’s performance over last three years since performances can bounce up and down from year to year. This team’s performance was better then over a dozen other teams. Now, with that said they under performed as a team drastically. If you agree with that then you understand that this team has enough quality talent to compete with the playoff qualifiers this year. It was a frustrating year because they should have done way better.

They need a top pairing D player that can play on the right side of Provy. If they can achieve this without opening more holes they should be able to compete next year. SHOULD!

Coots is not the issue. He is so hard to play against as many high rated players have said. Bergeron, ROR and Coots are very valuable players on teams.

I really don’t believe in making big decisions based on limited performances. Look at someone’s performance over last three years since performances can bounce up and down from year to year. This team’s performance was better then over a dozen other teams. Now, with that said they under performed as a team drastically. If you agree with that then you understand that this team has enough quality talent to compete with the playoff qualifiers this year. It was a frustrating year because they should have done way better.

They need a top pairing D player that can play on the right side of Provy. If they can achieve this without opening more holes they should be able to compete next year. SHOULD!
- peesinwind

What I see in the playoffs is a flyers team that isnt close when watching these other teams overall.

Bill,


can you give you opinion on Hextalls rebuild? How do you grade Hexy out? Some detail please.

A case by case basis is correct. In this case they should move on. Personally i hope he resigns and he extracts as much money from the flyers as he can. Same with Giroux.

What is the Flyers plan? Is it to build around the same core for the next 3 years to try to make a cup run? Is it to continue to wallow in mediocrity hoping for luck?

The GM has to know he has a short shelf life. So I can easily see him "go for it" and get rid of young players, picks, and prospects to appease the captain and ex selke.

They are not going to tear it down nor do they need to. Selling high on ex selke and maybe Giroux at the deadline (depends where they sit) building it back up with what is in house, free agency, trades you can turn it around sooner rather than later.

Any objective person can see this team is so far away from contending. None of it will matter if Hart doesn't turn out to be a top end goalie. Everyone can say no worries or he will be fine. Reality is they should be worried.
- hello it's me 2050

imagine implying that you're an objective person, but also saying you hope couturier and giroux command as much money as possible going forward to (frank) over the flyers cap situation.

Does anyone know if Niskenen actually filed his retirement papers? Could there be a chance he comes back after Covid?

Does anyone know if Niskenen actually filed his retirement papers? Could there be a chance he comes back after Covid?
- bsw31usa

i wouldn't count on this happening at all.

i wouldn't count on this happening at all.
- Ftown19125

I would not either just a thought

imagine implying that you're an objective person, but also saying you hope couturier and giroux command as much money as possible going forward to (frank) over the flyers cap situation.
- Ftown19125

Psalm 52:2
Your tongue plots destruction, like a sharp razor, you worker of deceit.

Some fans -- the ones who don't see to understand that drafting early, year after year, is still far from a guarantee of team success even if one or two of the selections become superstars -- seem just fine with the idea of starting the clock on another rebuild. I am NOT fine with it.
-BMeltzer

By some fans ... ehhh .. you mean 'PT21' I love it!

I'm with you Bill, I also am NOT fine with it. Rebuilds are for Pu$$ys! Instead let's make some good hockey trades, hard decisions, take a few risks, and let's ice a team that contends now!

What I see in the playoffs is a flyers team that isnt close when watching these other teams overall.
- hello it's me 2050

Well, I also see a team that had only one more point than the Flyers this regular season --the same team that lost to the Flyers in the playoffs last year (after throwing a scare into them) after squeaking in through the addition of play-ins and dismantling Pittsburgh -- is presently two wins away from the Cup Final even after an OT loss last game.

I see that the Flyers started out 11-4-3 despite not playing anything close to their best hockey. Part of what made this such a weird season is that the Flyers team analytics were awful when the team was 11-4-3 and were actually in the black in many key areas the rest of the way yet the club's record was awful because so damn many pucks ended up in their net and they were no longer outscoring their mistakes. That's a strange combination.

The Flyers aren't as close on paper right now as we'd want them to be -- I don't think anyone can credibly dispute that-- but they also aren't as far away as some think. Not everything that went wrong this season will stay broken just as not everything that improved so dramatically the year before will automatically snap back into place. Changes are needed and there will HAVE to be holdovers that also improve along the way.

Coots isn't the issue! V and G are the issues.... They have been since day one, Yes, I know I have been saying this for year which I'll do till they are gone.

As Bill laid out, the Couturier situation is a simple and easy decision. The tough decision is going to be with Giroux. I fully expect a quality season from Giroux putting up around 70 points or so. If he does, is he going to take the team friendly deal that the team would need to re-sign him? If he's not, then he is the player to explore trading. What if they're in a strong playoff spot? Very tricky situation.

Coots isn't the issue! V and G are the issues.... They have been since day one, Yes, I know I have been saying this for year which I'll do till they are gone.
- Flyers_1488

So Giroux when scoring 80-100 points and earning Hart trophy consideration has been the issue since day 1?

Coots is not the issue. He is so hard to play against as many high rated players have said. Bergeron, ROR and Coots are very valuable players on teams.

I really don’t believe in making big decisions based on limited performances. Look at someone’s performance over last three years since performances can bounce up and down from year to year. This team’s performance was better then over a dozen other teams. Now, with that said they under performed as a team drastically. If you agree with that then you understand that this team has enough quality talent to compete with the playoff qualifiers this year. It was a frustrating year because they should have done way better.

They need a top pairing D player that can play on the right side of Provy. If they can achieve this without opening more holes they should be able to compete next year. SHOULD!
- peesinwind

Trading Couts would be the equivalent of hiring the Three Stooges to fix your plumbing, and having them discover the problem is all these wires running through your pipes!

So Giroux when scoring 80-100 points and earning Hart trophy consideration has been the issue since day 1?
- MJL

All you ever bring is numbers.... If you can't lead then whats 100 points mean in 80 some games when you can't show up to play in the playoffs??

By some fans ... ehhh .. you mean 'PT21' I love it!

I'm with you Bill, I also am NOT fine with it. Rebuilds are for Pu$$ys! Instead let's make some good hockey trades, hard decisions, take a few risks, and let's ice a team that contends now!
- jd250

I'm with you in spirit but not in reality. I think there is no doubt that the Flyers between internal improvement and a few moves can be greatly improved as a team. However becoming a true contender with what's done this off season is not really reality. The caveat is if Hart has a great season, that could really lift the team. He has the ability but I don't think that is a sustainable way to contend. I think it's still all about the young players and how long it takes and how well they develop. Just as it has always been.

All you ever bring is numbers.... If you can't lead then whats 100 points mean in 80 some games when you can't show up to play in the playoffs??
- Flyers_1488

I think for sure there have been instances where I question the leadership on the team. However over his career, it is not accurate to say that is on Giroux. I think the issue now is that he is no longer the player that can strap a team on his back and carry them.