I agree. If he reaches 1000 points maybe it gooses up the possibility, but otherwise I agree.
- MBFlyerfan

Yeah agree. I’ll add too ifover last 10 years we had some really dominate teams that were supposed right there (like sharks years ago) maybe that would really help too along with getting to 1000 points.

Yes … infuriating the term of rebuilding… it’s moving assets to better the team. It’s the natural progression in building a team. Hexy gain lots of assets. Time to move some. Young and old(coots) that have value. Do you do it just to do it? No. The eye on prize is the near future
- Stayin alive

I can’t disagree…I just see Coots as a player they should want to keep….but any player is expendable…even Carter Hart….if it’s what’s best for next year and the future.

It's actually a bad point. It assumes facts not in evidence. It assumes that none of the Flyers young players are going to develop into top players to compliment Couturier as a player moving forward. It's completely blind to the possibilities of the future.
- MJL

You cannot assume any of them will develop.

How is that a fact?

Besides the one cup, which admittedly is pretty major, what major awards has Marchand won?

At the moment, Giroux has .91 p/pg, Marchand .89 p/pg

I think Giroux retires with more points. They are both the same age, so It is reasonable to assume they both have about the same amount of time left. Giroux has 143 more points than Marchand.
- MBFlyerfan

We’ll all star appearances world championship jr’s World Cup. I guess more whole career awards

Where for example g in his prime for 1 reason or another couldnt make Olympic team

I can’t disagree…I just see Coots as a player they should want to keep….but any player is expendable…even Carter Hart….if it’s what’s best for next year and the future.
- landros 2

Totally agree. I hate and loathe the cap. It unfortunately has to play a roll. It’s like when we had to move Gagne because of the cap.

What pisses me off is all the other leagues have a soft cap. Coots should be a player that gives teams ability to do “something” to retain their players for as long as they want without hard cap consideration. Should be able to work with the contract later on like the other leagues.

Jake another prime example. Has career best year in contract year. Signs big deal. Hasn’t lived up to it. Should have some flexibility for the team (as long as the player) example Gagne wanted to stay but nothing could be done to accommodate it.

Totally agree. I hate and loathe the cap. It unfortunately has to play a roll. It’s like when we had to move Gagne because of the cap.

What pisses me off is all the other leagues have a soft cap. Coots should be a player that gives teams ability to do “something” to retain their players for as long as they want without hard cap consideration. Should be able to work with the contract later on like the other leagues.

Jake another prime example. Has career best year in contract year. Signs big deal. Hasn’t lived up to it. Should have some flexibility for the team (as long as the player) example Gagne wanted to stay but nothing could be done to accommodate it.
- Stayin alive

And I’ll add quite honestly I’m surprised this isn’t brought up more during contact negotiations

Facts are management is not going to accept a rebuild, coots needs to be resigned.

I don't think the Flyers are quite married to me the same way they're married to their 1C lol. And from my end, I've never owned a pair of underoos in my life, much less Flyers underoos.

Yikes.
- Tomahawk

Ah you spoke from the management perspective? I misunderstood. I thought you were speaking from the fan perspective.

In the case of management, I would disagree about the analogy. I think those guys know full well the odds etc. They also see however the revenue loss and the nature of the Flyers fan base and they believe they can ride the post salary cap gravy train for another decade.

Ok, now, on to more interesting things. Wtf do you mean you have never owned underoos in your life?

And I’ll add quite honestly I’m surprised this isn’t brought up more during contact negotiations
- Stayin alive

Bettman is all about parity….and making sure non hockey market teams stay solvent…to do so they need to be competitive, and the cap allows them to do so. Can’t say the players disagree. It allows for more jobs with more teams. I’d love a soft cap…as a Flyers fan.

Facts are management is not going to accept a rebuild, coots needs to be resigned.
- ClaudeFather

Yup.

The point is which seems to be going over your head is tanking doesnt work anymore..... You cant just finish last anymore. Pittsburgh picked Crosby, Malkin and Fleury with their 1st round pick in 3 straight years.

2003 - Fleury 1st overall
2004 - Malkin 2nd Overall
2005 - Crosby 1st Overall

Their 1st round Picks since:

J.Staal
A.Esposito
J.Morrow
Simon Depres
B.Bennett
D.Pouliot
O.Maatta
Kapanen

Not much to gloat about there. The best pick Was Kapanen and they traded him away before re acquiring him.


Again we have had the 1st overall pick in 2007 and we lost it. If the rules were the same as when PIT sucked, we would have had P.Kane. We dont because Tanking doesnt work anymore.
- xShoot4WarAmpsx

As I mentioned earlier, arguing on the Internet is presenting the same argument with the same non-result: no matter how logical, well-argued or not, polite or insulting.

I do not know how many ways and how often I need to say the same thing, but you cannot judge the effectiveness of a strategy like tank/rebuild versus stay-the-course/draft/develop without looking at odds, and not focus on anecdotal piecemeal evidence such as what you presented above. Neither strategy is a guarantee, so endlessly and pathologically pointing out the times it did not work proves nothing except that what is already accepted, which is that there are no guarantees.

Once this bit is finally absorbed, I will once more trot out the logic that proves odds favor drafting high for cup success far more than they do any other strategy. After all its been a full 9 days since the last iteration.

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...p?thread_id=173038&page=4

Gutless decision by the DOPS. Barzal cross checked Rutta to the face, caused injury where the player didn’t return to the game and he’s not suspended.

League has different rules for all situations. It’s becoming a farce.

Gutless decision by the DOPS. Barzal cross checked Rutta to the face, caused injury where the player didn’t return to the game and he’s not suspended.

League has different rules for all situations. It’s becoming a farce.
- PLindbergh31

I think the word “becoming” is so generous of you.

Ok, now, on to more interesting things. Wtf do you mean you have never owned underoos in your life?
- PT21

Guess I just missed that rite of passage.

I see that the Flyers started out 11-4-3 despite not playing anything close to their best hockey. Part of what made this such a weird season is that the Flyers team analytics were awful when the team was 11-4-3 and were actually in the black in many key areas the rest of the way yet the club's record was awful because so damn many pucks ended up in their net and they were no longer outscoring their mistakes. That's a strange combination. ... Changes are needed and there will HAVE to be holdovers that also improve along the way.
- bmeltzer

I'm sick of the momentum players: JvR and Konecny are the worst. Go on a tear for five or six games and then disappear as the losses pile up. I find Jake disappears for games at a time. Say what you will about G (and mostly my frustration is that he doesn't shoot more, and he seems too tired at the end of games to get back on D), he's pretty consistent. Coots -- AMAZINGLY consistent. I'd rather find a way to move out the inconsistent players --unless they are playoff studs like Briere.
One thing that drives me CRAZY -- the nhl is nothing but a game of cap management at this point. If it weren't for that, we'd all keep Coots, pay him MAKE UP pay for making too little these past years, and not worry about loss in production, and happily pay a luxury penalty tax too if we had to. But no, it's all "well, if he wants a superstar contract then that doesn't make cap sense, and if we are already at the cap then we HAVE to trade him for cheaper assets etc.."
It's not a sport anymore. It's a casino game.

Provorov in my opinion is already a true top pairing NHL defenseman.
- MJL

He is, but until he has the right partner he is will not be a successful one consistently.
The Flyers have never gotten it right for him, except Nisk and that had its limits.

They need a lot but 2 for me

Right partner for Provy

Then the right line for Coots, one that is made up of younger, skilled players. Like Farabee and a sniper. One where if they sign Coots to an 8 year deal they can set it and forget it with that line.

Guess I just missed that rite of passage.
- Tomahawk

You go commando as part of your daily routine? Or is it loin cloths?

He is, but until he has the right partner he is will not be a successful one consistently.
The Flyers have never gotten it right for him, except Nisk and that had its limits.

They need a lot but 2 for me

Right partner for Provy

Then the right line for Coots, one that is made up of younger, skilled players. Like Farabee and a sniper. One where if they sign Coots to an 8 year deal they can set it and forget it with that line.
- wcorvette

They need a ton. And it’s not all getting addressed this summer. I’m skeptical any of it will get addressed with Fletcher being the GM.

Besides the one cup, which admittedly is pretty major, what major awards has Marchand won?

At the moment, Giroux has .91 p/pg, Marchand .89 p/pg

I think Giroux retires with more points. They are both the same age, so It is reasonable to assume they both have about the same amount of time left. Giroux has 143 more points than Marchand.
- MBFlyerfan

G needs 1K points and cup to get in, one where he is still a top 6 contributor

They need a ton. And it’s not all getting addressed this summer. I’m skeptical any of it will get addressed with Fletcher being the GM.
- PLindbergh31

no it wont but if you can pull off the 2 I listed you take care of the Coots conversation, the Provy conversation and then by the following off-season you fill in the rest.

Facts are management is not going to accept a rebuild, coots needs to be resigned.
- ClaudeFather

Trading coots isn’t a rebuild. Let’s not kid ourselves thinking he’s some stud that would fetch this great haul. He a good solid player.

Bettman is all about parity….and making sure non hockey market teams stay solvent…to do so they need to be competitive, and the cap allows them to do so. Can’t say the players disagree. It allows for more jobs with more teams. I’d love a soft cap…as a Flyers fan.
- landros 2

I think it’s more the players wanting the hard cap. Guaranteed contracts with the hard cap. Every team in baseball football work the soft cap. Parity isn’t the issue

Gutless decision by the DOPS. Barzal cross checked Rutta to the face, caused injury where the player didn’t return to the game and he’s not suspended.

League has different rules for all situations. It’s becoming a farce.
- PLindbergh31

Becoming?

I'm sick of the momentum players: JvR and Konecny are the worst. Go on a tear for five or six games and then disappear as the losses pile up. I find Jake disappears for games at a time. Say what you will about G (and mostly my frustration is that he doesn't shoot more, and he seems too tired at the end of games to get back on D), he's pretty consistent. Coots -- AMAZINGLY consistent. I'd rather find a way to move out the inconsistent players --unless they are playoff studs like Briere.
One thing that drives me CRAZY -- the nhl is nothing but a game of cap management at this point. If it weren't for that, we'd all keep Coots, pay him MAKE UP pay for making too little these past years, and not worry about loss in production, and happily pay a luxury penalty tax too if we had to. But no, it's all "well, if he wants a superstar contract then that doesn't make cap sense, and if we are already at the cap then we HAVE to trade him for cheaper assets etc.."
It's not a sport anymore. It's a casino game.
- therabbi

Exactly

Trading coots isn’t a rebuild. Let’s not kid ourselves thinking he’s some stud that would fetch this great haul. He a good solid player.
- Stayin alive

What? He would certainly bring a great haul. It would also signal a rebuild, trade him and then one of jvr or Jake is picked in expansion, where does this team finish? I’d say we would get a top 10 pick.