I’m curious to what people think the return would be on coots in a trade at draft (highest value) not what they think should be the return as obviously people put personal value differently on him.

For example say Buffalo move eichel or Reinhardt or both and need center.

To bumbalo: coots
To Philly : olofsson and risto(or pick)

Would that do? Sniping young winger and steady 3/6 dman. Or pick with the sniper?

That’s not rebuilding it’s for the now and with the future.

I’m curious to what people think the return would be on coots in a trade at draft (highest value) not what they think should be the return as obviously people put personal value differently on him.

For example say Buffalo move eichel or Reinhardt or both and need center.

To bumbalo: coots
To Philly : olofsson and risto(or pick)

Would that do? Sniping young winger and steady 3/6 dman. Or pick with the sniper?

That’s not rebuilding it’s for the now and with the future.
- Stayin alive

Bee/g/olafsson
Oscar/Hayes/tk/Jake
Or some form of bottom 9 depending on roster

I’m curious to what people think the return would be on coots in a trade at draft (highest value) not what they think should be the return as obviously people put personal value differently on him.

For example say Buffalo move eichel or Reinhardt or both and need center.

To bumbalo: coots
To Philly : olofsson and risto(or pick)

Would that do? Sniping young winger and steady 3/6 dman. Or pick with the sniper?

That’s not rebuilding it’s for the now and with the future.
- Stayin alive

Why the hell would Buffalo do this, no chance Coots would resign with them

What? He would certainly bring a great haul. It would also signal a rebuild, trade him and then one of jvr or Jake is picked in expansion, where does this team finish? I’d say we would get a top 10 pick.
- ClaudeFather

If he brought a great return why would we be top 10 pick? What do you think they get for him? And losing jvr and or Jake no big deal. What saved on cap can easily spend on Fa vet to replace most or all of their production at lower cost. Or replace from within possibly. Oscar healthy? Frosty ? More progression from bee? Tk shows up?

Why the hell would Buffalo do this, no chance Coots would resign with them
- ClaudeFather

Was just quick example. Again if eichel and Reinhardt traded they’d need center. In Buffalo case they’d need established center. Maybe they get some back in trades. Was for example purpose only.

The point was if we got something along those lines would people be upset? Would they consider it a “rebuild”

If he brought a great return why would we be top 10 pick? What do you think they get for him? And losing jvr and or Jake no big deal. What saved on cap can easily spend on Fa vet to replace most or all of their production at lower cost. Or replace from within possibly. Oscar healthy? Frosty ? More progression from bee? Tk shows up?
- Stayin alive

The trade would be geared toward a rebuild, what are you saying hear. We’d be looking for a combo of young player / prospects / picks

Was just quick example. Again if eichel and Reinhardt traded they’d need center. In Buffalo case they’d need established center. Maybe they get some back in trades. Was for example purpose only.

The point was if we got something along those lines would people be upset? Would they consider it a “rebuild”
- Stayin alive

If I’m trading coots I’m rebuilding. He’s the one player that actually shows up on this team.

The trade would be geared toward a rebuild, what are you saying hear. We’d be looking for a combo of young player / prospects / picks
- ClaudeFather

No the way I look at it is pretty simple. There’s really only 2 choices

1) sign coots to long term deal huge $ (assuming he not gonna take a shorter 4-5 year deal) which I absolutely under no circumstance want them to do for the many already listed reasons by many

2) trade him for assets and after the draft his value goes down by the day because he only has year left on deal and ufa and all that goes with it.

Was curious with all that said what people realistically think they’d get in a trade. Obviously ideally if trading him it’s to a team he’s willing to sign extension as return would be greater but taking that out of the equation and not wanting option 1 under any circumstance what do we get? And why does it signal a rebuild? It’s asset management

If I’m trading coots I’m rebuilding. He’s the one player that actually shows up on this team.
- ClaudeFather

If that’s really true there’s bigger problems that HAVING coots on roster isn’t going to help no?

If that’s really true there’s bigger problems that HAVING coots on roster isn’t going to help no?
- Stayin alive

I don’t think flyers as bad as some making them out to be. Or as good either

I don’t think flyers as bad as some making them out to be. Or as good either
- Stayin alive

How many accounts you signed in as?

Honestly, the Blues were an outlier.

But even then, there are 2 basic differences.
1. Blues personnel were well suited to their style of a heavy, defensive, possession style game.
2. Pietro.
- PT21

This is not accurate. In the regular season, the Blues were at 51.50 CF%. In the playoffs that year, they were at 50.65 CF%. They ranked 10th in the playoffs in GA per game at 2.69. Not even close to the teams that actually were heavy in possession such as Boston at 53.07 CF% and a GA of 2.13

Let's say the Flyers resign Couturier.

How does that improve the team?

The Flyers have basically done nothing with him the last 9 years.

And now he is a greater cap hit.

How do they improve the team with a more expensive Couturier?

You cannot assume any of them will develop.

How is that a fact?
- DrMidnite

I did not state it was a fact.

As I mentioned earlier, arguing on the Internet is presenting the same argument with the same non-result: no matter how logical, well-argued or not, polite or insulting.

I do not know how many ways and how often I need to say the same thing, but you cannot judge the effectiveness of a strategy like tank/rebuild versus stay-the-course/draft/develop without looking at odds, and not focus on anecdotal piecemeal evidence such as what you presented above. Neither strategy is a guarantee, so endlessly and pathologically pointing out the times it did not work proves nothing except that what is already accepted, which is that there are no guarantees.

Once this bit is finally absorbed, I will once more trot out the logic that proves odds favor drafting high for cup success far more than they do any other strategy. After all its been a full 9 days since the last iteration.

https://www.hockeybuzz.co...p?thread_id=173038&page=4
- PT21

Again, there is a nuance here that we have discussed before. If you want to say that the best way to obtain an elite player, is to draft with a high draft pick, you would be correct. Where you are wrong again, is in stating that pointing out the times it did not work proves nothing. That is wrong. It proves how often it doesn't work. We can also look at how many teams have elite talent and fail to win. The we can look at why they failed to win. You only want to look at that which you think supports your premise and ignore that which doesn't. Once this is absorbed, then maybe we can get somewhere

How many accounts you signed in as?
- ClaudeFather

What you mean 🤣 1and only 1

He is, but until he has the right partner he is will not be a successful one consistently.
The Flyers have never gotten it right for him, except Nisk and that had its limits.

They need a lot but 2 for me

Right partner for Provy

Then the right line for Coots, one that is made up of younger, skilled players. Like Farabee and a sniper. One where if they sign Coots to an 8 year deal they can set it and forget it with that line.
- wcorvette

I agree and that it makes it all the more accurate to look at the situation that Provorov has played in how good he is. How good would he be or how good could he become if playing in a better situation?

Again, there is a nuance here that we have discussed before. If you want to say that the best way to obtain an elite player, is to draft with a high draft pick, you would be correct. Where you are wrong again, is in stating that pointing out the times it did not work proves nothing. That is wrong. It proves how often it doesn't work. We can also look at how many teams have elite talent and fail to win. The we can look at why they failed to win. You only want to look at that which you think supports your premise and ignore that which doesn't. Once this is absorbed, then maybe we can get somewhere
- MJL

All he ever said was it improved the odds.

He gave ways to obtain those picks

Per usual you like you just said he’s correct it’s the best way to obtain elite talent but you give no way to accomplish this. You are against tanking and against trading assets. Both young because you believe they are future or older (coots) because you believe that he must absolutely be resigned

Typical status quo flyer fan.
Kool aid drinker

Stay pat and hope get lucky.

It’s like watching people pull slot machine lever knowing they have a 3% chance of winning rather than playing bj at 49%. And wondering why they lose $ and have zero cups last 46 years.

Status quo

For poops and giggles say Seattle offers #2 pick this year for coots

Do we take it?

Is that a rebuild?

For poops and giggles say Seattle offers #2 pick this year for coots

Do we take it?

Is that a rebuild?
- Stayin alive

I wouldn’t dare have this team pick at #2 again

Let's say the Flyers resign Couturier.

How does that improve the team?

The Flyers have basically done nothing with him the last 9 years.

And now he is a greater cap hit.

How do they improve the team with a more expensive Couturier?
- Captain_Ahab

It improves the team moving forward by retaining your #1 center.

I wouldn’t dare have this team pick at #2 again
- ClaudeFather

I agree.

Yeah, could you make it the 3rd pick instead of 2?

#2 has a history we might want to stay away from.

It improves the team moving forward by retaining your #1 center.
- MJL

No it doesn't. You already had him the last 9 years and the Flyers have done nothing.

So how does it improve the team now that Couturier is a bigger cap hit?

No it doesn't. You already had him the last 9 years and the Flyers have done nothing.

So how does it improve the team now that Couturier is a bigger cap hit?
- Captain_Ahab

We're talking about improving the team in the future or are we talking about the past?