No it doesn't. You already had him the last 9 years and the Flyers have done nothing.

So how does it improve the team now that Couturier is a bigger cap hit?
- Captain_Ahab

Because he’s a homer. Coots is great. Top player in league. 🙄🙄🙄

He’s got excuses for last 9 years and next 9 if they resign him. 60 year cup drought

We're talking about improving the team in the future or are we talking about the past?

- MJL

You make no sense.

If you resign Couturier he then becomes a bigger cap hit.

How do you improve the team with Couturier being a bigger cap hit?

Meaning there is less cap space available for other players.

You make no sense.

If you resign Couturier he then becomes a bigger cap hit.

How do you improve the them with Couturier being a bigger cap hit?

Meaning there is less cap space available for other players.
- Captain_Ahab

You draft and get lucky. You see zetterberg was drafted 6th round it can happen. That’s my plan over next 5 years. Draft 35-40 players and hope 20 of them are really really good. And get a few hall of famers and a few elite talent n oh t drafting in top 5 or so because it’s not needed with my hope plan.


Yeah it’s called wish in one hand and poop in the other and see which one fills up first.

You’ll never get a plan or original thought out of mjl

I agree and that it makes it all the more accurate to look at the situation that Provorov has played in how good he is. How good would he be or how good could he become if playing in a better situation?
- MJL

I assume better but we don’t know. Jones and Werenski are a good example of playing off of each other. Jones instinct is D first, werenski O first. I really think Jones is the type of D Provy would hit his ceiling with. I think there is another gear of O in Provy but he needs a partner.

You make no sense.

If you resign Couturier he then becomes a bigger cap hit.

How do you improve the team with Couturier being a bigger cap hit?

Meaning there is less cap space available for other players.
- Captain_Ahab

I make no sense. So are we talking about how Couturier can improve the team in the season that just past then?


So lets see who makes sense. Next season, are they better with him or without him? Depends I guess on what assets you get if you trade him, right? That's not known. So I contend that having Couturier moving forward on the team, as a 70 point Selke level #1 center, improves the Flyers over not having him on the team. Not a hard concept.
The cap is fluid and other moves are made moving forward. As one player takes a bigger chunk on the cap, others are moved out. If you want to say the cap picture moving forward is difficult, I would agree with you.

He is, but until he has the right partner he is will not be a successful one consistently.
The Flyers have never gotten it right for him, except Nisk and that had its limits.

They need a lot but 2 for me

Right partner for Provy

Then the right line for Coots, one that is made up of younger, skilled players. Like Farabee and a sniper. One where if they sign Coots to an 8 year deal they can set it and forget it with that line.
- wcorvette

I dont understand the right partner thing. We've tried all our guys with him, no other D man weve had have this issue of not having the right partner. We dont even say it with Sandheim, he cant be a good 2nd pair D man unless we give him the right partner. Maybe PRovy just needs to deal with it and play better.

I think it’s more the players wanting the hard cap. Guaranteed contracts with the hard cap. Every team in baseball football work the soft cap. Parity isn’t the issue
- Stayin alive

football has a hard cap, but you can terminate a players contract.......hmmmmm lol

Oh before I forget… bill stating philly started season 11-4-3 or whatever was a mirage. They were playing like poop and getting lucky. Everyone said this at beginning of season. Them getting lucky only (frank)ed themselves out of higher pick. Pretending it was anything other than a mirage to prop up thought process is status quo. Sorry but not sorry. We who have no connection to the team other than fans know what we were watching.


But By all means use that as excuse to what flyers could be with coots

Again, there is a nuance here that we have discussed before. If you want to say that the best way to obtain an elite player, is to draft with a high draft pick, you would be correct. Where you are wrong again, is in stating that pointing out the times it did not work proves nothing. That is wrong. It proves how often it doesn't work. We can also look at how many teams have elite talent and fail to win. The we can look at why they failed to win. You only want to look at that which you think supports your premise and ignore that which doesn't. Once this is absorbed, then maybe we can get somewhere
- MJL

You need to scale, or concert into a %, the likelihood of success using various methods. The raw instances prove nothing as they are 'not weighted.'

If you compare two treatments for a disease, is it valid to say that treatment A is no better than treatment B because it failed on xyz occasions? Of course not. You need to look at the relative likelihoods of success and failure.

There are indirect ways of doing this somewhat scientifically (fully would be too complicated), which I have described many times earlier.

I assume better but we don’t know. Jones and Werenski are a good example of playing off of each other. Jones instinct is D first, werenski O first. I really think Jones is the type of D Provy would hit his ceiling with. I think there is another gear of O in Provy but he needs a partner.
- wcorvette

No question. Provorov is a solid defender but really his greatest strength as a defenseman is at 5 on 5 and attacking offensively. He has a real knack for finding a hole and being able to score at 5 on 5. Having to defend more and spending more time in the defensive zone takes away from that.

I liken it to the way Chicago operated on their runs. Now I'm not comparing Provorov to any player here. In Chicago, Duncan Keith was a great player, winning Norris trophies. However, he didn't take a lot of the heavy lifting. A lot of the tough defensive minutes were eaten up by Hjamarlsson. Leaving Keith to play more advantageous offensive situations.

So Provorov not only needs a good partner, but he needs some help from other pairings also.

I dont understand the right partner thing. We've tried all our guys with him, no other D man weve had have this issue of not having the right partner. We dont even say it with Sandheim, he cant be a good 2nd pair D man unless we give him the right partner. Maybe PRovy just needs to deal with it and play better.
- bradster

Last season was just bad for all, prior Provy played well on a weak team mostly.

If you have a good D, you find the right partner, it makes them better as a whole, not much to it. It seems we don’t have that guy in-house. Sure he needs to be better on his own, that is a given

I make no sense. So are we talking about how Couturier can improve the team in the season that just past then?


So lets see who makes sense. Next season, are they better with him or without him? Depends I guess on what assets you get if you trade him, right? That's not known. So I contend that having Couturier moving forward on the team, as a 70 point Selke level #1 center, improves the Flyers over not having him on the team. Not a hard concept.
The cap is fluid and other moves are made moving forward. As one player takes a bigger chunk on the cap, others are moved out. If you want to say the cap picture moving forward is difficult, I would agree with you.
- MJL

Yeah k pal. He had 2 70+ seasons 3-4 YEARS AGO. Out of 10 years. He’s more 56-65 at best. And he finished a whole 15th in selke voting this past year. Exactly how is that great moving forward? Exactly. Facts and stats for the one who says I never produce them. Status quo. Believe he’s great

You need to scale, or concert into a %, the likelihood of success using various methods. The raw instances prove nothing as they are 'not weighted.'


- PT21

No you don't need to. It's sports. The raw instances prove a lot. It's not difficult. I deleted your analogy because it's another in a long line of irrelevant analogies.

football has a hard cap, but you can terminate a players contract.......hmmmmm lol
- bradster

You can rework nfl contracts

I used to be more emotionally attached to players, but I guess all these years of futility, or just all these years, has worn that away. Players come and players go. Couturier is a really good player, but I can see the logic in trading him rather than resigning him for max years and huge money. The Islanders lost their number 1 center and got nothing for him. A few years later and they’re a few wins from the Stanley Cup finals (would have been a better example before they got their asses handed to them last night).

Last season was just bad for all, prior Provy played well on a weak team mostly.

If you have a good D, you find the right partner, it makes them better as a whole, not much to it. It seems we don’t have that guy in-house. Sure he needs to be better on his own, that is a given
- wcorvette

Hes ALMOST like Ghost, every other year hes good.

I used to be more emotionally attached to players, but I guess all these years of futility, or just all these years, has worn that away. Players come and players go. Couturier is a really good player, but I can see the logic in trading him rather than resigning him for max years and huge money. The Islanders lost their number 1 center and got nothing for him. A few years later and they’re a few wins from the Stanley Cup finals (would have been a better example before they got their asses handed to them last night).
- Dkos

Would they be a better team with Taveras? I don't think the idea of trading Couturier is without any merit. I just don't agree with it.

Yeah k pal. He had 2 70+ seasons 3-4 YEARS AGO. Out of 10 years. He’s more 56-65 at best. And he finished a whole 15th in selke voting this past year. Exactly how is that great moving forward? Exactly. Facts and stats for the one who says I never produce them. Status quo. Believe he’s great
- Stayin alive

You realize that last season was a shortened season right? Coots had 41 points in 45 games, pace over 70

Maybe go back another year. Wait, nope that looks like the same pace.

I used to be more emotionally attached to players, but I guess all these years of futility, or just all these years, has worn that away. Players come and players go. Couturier is a really good player, but I can see the logic in trading him rather than resigning him for max years and huge money. The Islanders lost their number 1 center and got nothing for him. A few years later and they’re a few wins from the Stanley Cup finals (would have been a better example before they got their asses handed to them last night).
- Dkos

Good point. Yeah recchi/brindy my all time favs. Those 2 being traded away was the straw for me. Love em while their here and root for them when they go. But those days of blind loyalty in cap world? Forget it.

I make no sense. So are we talking about how Couturier can improve the team in the season that just past then?


So lets see who makes sense. Next season, are they better with him or without him? Depends I guess on what assets you get if you trade him, right? That's not known. So I contend that having Couturier moving forward on the team, as a 70 point Selke level #1 center, improves the Flyers over not having him on the team. Not a hard concept.
The cap is fluid and other moves are made moving forward. As one player takes a bigger chunk on the cap, others are moved out. If you want to say the cap picture moving forward is difficult, I would agree with you.
- MJL

Again, you make no sense.

You already have Couturier. Bringing him back does not improve the team because he is already here. And has been for 9 years.

The only difference is you are giving him more money.

So how does giving him more money make the team better? This means less money available for other players under the cap.

You say players will be moved out: Yes. Giroux is off the cap next summer. But his cap space will be used to resign Farabee and Frost.

This summer they have to resign Sanhaim and Hart.

And you need space for a decent defenseman that could be a $6 million cap hit.

You speak in general non-specific terms. You offer no plans. No ideas.

Just simply resign him.

No you don't need to. It's sports. The raw instances prove a lot. It's not difficult. I deleted your analogy because it's another in a long line of irrelevant analogies.
- MJL

Ah I get it now.

Just to help understand better, is it the same sport where hockey players never look at goalies tendencies before shootouts, and just take the puck and do their freewheeling thing, with the immortal mantra "MJL! MJL" on their lips?

You realize that last season was a shortened season right? Coots had 41 points in 45 games, pace over 70

Maybe go back another year. Wait, nope that looks like the same pace.
- wcorvette

On pace lmao. Well score a goal opening night your on pace for 82. Would he get injured? Would his “pace”slow down? Would it go up? Who knows. I don’t go by what ifs I simply stating last full seasons. And previous seasons. He’s put up 76points in 2 full seasons. Mjl wants facts and stats.

Again, you make no sense.

You already have Couturier. Bringing him back does not improve the team because he is already here. And has been for 9 years.

The only difference is you are giving him more money.

So how does giving him more money make the team better? This means less money available for other players under the cap.

You say players will be moved out: Yes. Giroux is off the cap next summer. But his cap space will be used to resign Farabee and Frost.

This summer they have to resign Sanhaim and Hart.

And you need space for a decent defenseman that could be a $6 million cap hit.

You speak in general non-specific terms. You offer no plans. No ideas.

Just simply resign him.
- Captain_Ahab

Hmmm “you speak in general non-specific terms. You offer no plans. No ideas”

Exactly yet another poster that sees this.

Again, you make no sense.

You already have Couturier. Bringing him back does not improve the team because he is already here. And has been for 9 years.

The only difference is you are giving him more money.

So how does giving him more money make the team better? This means less money available for other players under the cap.

You say players will be moved out: Yes. Giroux is off the cap next summer. But his cap space will be used to resign Farabee and Frost.

This summer they have to resign Sanhaim and Hart.

And you need space for a decent defenseman that could be a $6 million cap hit.

You speak in general non-specific terms. You offer no plans. No ideas.

Just simply resign him.
- Captain_Ahab

This is funny. So if you don't resign him, you don't have him. If you do resign him, you do have him. So the fact that you had him previously, which is in the PAST, and not part of the future does not mean that keeping him does not improve the team moving forward versus not keeping him.

Again, very funny. What question were you asking me? Are you asking me how does keeping Couturier improve the team moving forward? Or were you asking me what my detailed plan was for the Flyers in it's entirety? You need to identify the scope of what you're asking and not change the question with every response.

As I said previously, if you want to say the cap picture is tough moving forward, I would agree with you. If you want to have a discussion of the Flyers cap picture moving forward, we can do that.

On pace lmao. Well score a goal opening night your on pace for 82. Would he get injured? Would his “pace”slow down? Would it go up? Who knows. I don’t go by what ifs I simply stating last full seasons. And previous seasons. He’s put up 76points in 2 full seasons. Mjl wants facts and stats.
- Stayin alive

Yeah makes complete sense to you