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Forums :: Blog World :: Bill Meltzer: Musings & Quick Hits: Couturier, Showcase Roster, TIFH and More
Author Message
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:24 PM ET
I cannot deny that watching a bottom feeding team is no fun.

But there is a distinction between saying: I want my team to provide me with entertainment and I want my team to win.

That is honestly the crux of the matter. The more you veer towards the latter, the more sympathetic you will be to the argument that higher picks gives you higher odds. The more you veer towards the former, the less you will be willing to be patient during the years.

- PT21

Exactly… the bean counter and typical flyers fan that don’t understand hockey in today’s world didn’t/couldn’t see there was no quick rebuild when hexy hired. No prospects/horrible contracts. That takes 3-4 years to move out and start gaining assets. Hexy fired 4.5 years into rebuild. We’ve been stagnant last 2 years( not totally their fault for obviously Covid reasons) again I say look at how kings built cup teams. They turned over roster players 2-3 times to improve along with drafting. Like hexy said it’s not go time. Whether the fans want it or not. Ok fire him…. How’d it turn out 2 years later? Any smart fan with 1 working eyeball can see this team SHOULD be in stage of collecting assets. At best moving some for let position if possible without blowing it up. To think they’re anywhere near a an up and coming team while debating signing 30 year old coots and all that shows just how dense the average flyers fan is.

That’s why status quo will continue in Philly. Surely the pundits out of market all wrong. Surely the bean counters will push coots and sell some tix/jerseys and they be in the playoff hunt and the mjl’s of the fan base will defend and all that and next thing you know it’ll be 50 55 60 years without cup.

Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:26 PM ET
Its more likely you don't win with any strategy in sports. That is the reality of a 32 team league and the randomness of sports.

The issue, again, is which is the best among the existing strategies. Not whether any strategy is more likely to produce desired results than failure. If it was the latter, you would have to disqualify every strategy

And since you have again trotted out the examples of Buffalo, here are some relevant concepts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ction#Comparing_fractions

- PT21


Speaking of Buffalo

R.I.P. Rene Robert
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 22 @ 7:28 PM ET
You have been asked multiple times and never answer.

You just repeat the same thing over and over. Resign Couturier. Resign Couturier.

You never offered any plan or idea.

You still don't.

You could right now.

And again, you don't.

- Captain_Ahab


No, you haven't asked me multiple times. You just change the question when you don't have a better answer to my response to the question that you did ask.

So as far as a plan is concerned. Just like you can't, nor can anyone else for that matter. I cannot predict or name specific moves that the Flyers should make in the future. For example, poster like to say, I'd trade Voracek. That's a plan? LOL. To what team and for what? That's not giving a plan, that's playing fantasy hockey.

My idea of how a team should approach the future and manage the cap moving forward is that you need to identify what players are in your future and who is not. If you have a player that plays at a high level and is a difference maker. Who makes players around him better that you would have a difficult time replacing, that is a player that you expend high cap dollars to. The caveat being age. Now if Couturier was Giroux's age, I would have different thoughts but there is a big difference between 30 and 34. The issue with the Flyers is that they have 3 high cap hit players that they probably would move on from if they could in the near future. Hayes, Voracek and JVR. The issue with Hayes is that I think he will rebound and be better but in the 2nd half of his deal, it's a possibility that he'll be a high price role player. Short term issue is that they need him at center. It would be a loss of offense form moving on from Voracek and JVR but the hope is that players like Farabee, Allison and Frost develop and help make up for that offense.

I have been involved in many discussions in the Flyers thread about how the Flyers should proceed moving forward. Even though you incorrectly claim that I have no "plan or idea". I've had the same idea about the Flyers ever since Hextall was fired and the Flyers wanted to switch gears. I think the worst place a team can be is to be a good team that is not good enough and is a cap team. Tough to improve in that position. Made even worse by the current flat cap environment. I want the Flyers to pursue two kind of moves aside from the draft in terms of free agency or trades. I want them to bring in true game changers. If a player is going to max out the cap, I want him to be a difference maker that significantly upgrades the team.
If not then I want short term low cost stop gap vets to fill in until the younger players can mature. No more middle of the pack signings such as Hayes that while it does improve the team, ultimately it doesn't significantly elevate them. That's the approach I want the team to take.

Now in terms of specific players, I have certainly names players I have interest in and would like to see the Flyers pursue such as Jones, Hamilton and Blake Coleman.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 22 @ 7:30 PM ET
Its more likely you don't win with any strategy in sports. That is the reality of a 32 team league and the randomness of sports.

The issue, again, is which is the best among the existing strategies. Not whether any strategy is more likely to produce desired results than failure. If it was the latter, you would have to disqualify every strategy

And since you have again trotted out the examples of Buffalo, here are some relevant concepts:

- PT21


Now were getting somewhere. You've finally come around and admitted that your tanking plan is misguided. The link you provided is not relevant.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 22 @ 7:32 PM ET
No, you haven't asked me multiple times. You just change the question when you don't have a better answer to my response to the question that you did ask.

So as far as a plan is concerned. Just like you can't, nor can anyone else for that matter. I cannot predict or name specific moves that the Flyers should make in the future. For example, poster like to say, I'd trade Voracek. That's a plan? LOL. To what team and for what? That's not giving a plan, that's playing fantasy hockey.

My idea of how a team should approach the future and manage the cap moving forward is that you need to identify what players are in your future and who is not. If you have a player that plays at a high level and is a difference maker. Who makes players around him better that you would have a difficult time replacing, that is a player that you expend high cap dollars to. The caveat being age. Now if Couturier was Giroux's age, I would have different thoughts but there is a big difference between 30 and 34. The issue with the Flyers is that they have 3 high cap hit players that they probably would move on from if they could in the near future. Hayes, Voracek and JVR. The issue with Hayes is that I think he will rebound and be better but in the 2nd half of his deal, it's a possibility that he'll be a high price role player. Short term issue is that they need him at center. It would be a loss of offense form moving on from Voracek and JVR but the hope is that players like Farabee, Allison and Frost develop and help make up for that offense.

I have been involved in many discussions in the Flyers thread about how the Flyers should proceed moving forward. Even though you incorrectly claim that I have no "plan or idea". I've had the same idea about the Flyers ever since Hextall was fired and the Flyers wanted to switch gears. I think the worst place a team can be is to be a good team that is not good enough and is a cap team. Tough to improve in that position. Made even worse by the current flat cap environment. I want the Flyers to pursue two kind of moves aside from the draft in terms of free agency or trades. I want them to bring in true game changers. If a player is going to max out the cap, I want him to be a difference maker that significantly upgrades the team.
If not then I want short term low cost stop gap vets to fill in until the younger players can mature. No more middle of the pack signings such as Hayes that while it does improve the team, ultimately it doesn't significantly elevate them. That's the approach I want the team to take.

Now in terms of specific players, I have certainly names players I have interest in and would like to see the Flyers pursue such as Jones, Hamilton and Blake Coleman.

- MJL


If you read through this gem carefully, he really does not understand what a plan means. Its full of Monty Pythonesque generalities.

Based on previous encounters, he is also sort of philosophically opposed to the idea of a plan.
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:33 PM ET
Its more likely you don't win with any strategy in sports. That is the reality of a 32 team league and the randomness of sports.

The issue, again, is which is the best among the existing strategies. Not whether any strategy is more likely to produce desired results than failure. If it was the latter, you would have to disqualify every strategy

And since you have again trotted out the examples of Buffalo, here are some relevant concepts:

https://en.wikipedia.org/...ction#Comparing_fractions

- PT21



And for the flyers fans that keep using Buffalo as example why you don’t tank…

Tank want the problem.

The problem is Buffalo did exactly what flyer fans want to do now.

They tried to rush the rebuild and started trading high picks and giving out high contracts to win now when it wasn’t go time. They tried to build without fully using draft which you can’t do. Not in cap world.
Lehner
Skinner
Okposo
Many others too. Now stuck years later. But by being bad they have also drafted recently
Olofson
Quinn
Dahlin
Cozens
Luukanen

They will trade Reinhardt as we should trade coots. That ship has sailed.

Eichel ship has sailed too as will happen with stars if team fails as Buffalo did.

Those players don’t come along often on market entering prime. If you’re young and have lots of assets and need a 1c that’s the time to pounce. Injury withstanding
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 22 @ 7:33 PM ET
Now were getting somewhere. You've finally come around and admitted that your tanking plan is misguided. The link you provided is not relevant.
- MJL


No, I provided you with the correct way to assess it: Does it give you a greater chance of success than alternatives?

The fractions would be way too deep for you, and I understand.

PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 22 @ 7:39 PM ET
Speaking of Buffalo

R.I.P. Rene Robert

- Stayin alive


Indeed. I just learned after you posted. 72 is way too young.

RIP.
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:40 PM ET
No, you haven't asked me multiple times. You just change the question when you don't have a better answer to my response to the question that you did ask.

So as far as a plan is concerned. Just like you can't, nor can anyone else for that matter. I cannot predict or name specific moves that the Flyers should make in the future. For example, poster like to say, I'd trade Voracek. That's a plan? LOL. To what team and for what? That's not giving a plan, that's playing fantasy hockey.

My idea of how a team should approach the future and manage the cap moving forward is that you need to identify what players are in your future and who is not. If you have a player that plays at a high level and is a difference maker. Who makes players around him better that you would have a difficult time replacing, that is a player that you expend high cap dollars to. The caveat being age. Now if Couturier was Giroux's age, I would have different thoughts but there is a big difference between 30 and 34. The issue with the Flyers is that they have 3 high cap hit players that they probably would move on from if they could in the near future. Hayes, Voracek and JVR. The issue with Hayes is that I think he will rebound and be better but in the 2nd half of his deal, it's a possibility that he'll be a high price role player. Short term issue is that they need him at center. It would be a loss of offense form moving on from Voracek and JVR but the hope is that players like Farabee, Allison and Frost develop and help make up for that offense.

I have been involved in many discussions in the Flyers thread about how the Flyers should proceed moving forward. Even though you incorrectly claim that I have no "plan or idea". I've had the same idea about the Flyers ever since Hextall was fired and the Flyers wanted to switch gears. I think the worst place a team can be is to be a good team that is not good enough and is a cap team. Tough to improve in that position. Made even worse by the current flat cap environment. I want the Flyers to pursue two kind of moves aside from the draft in terms of free agency or trades. I want them to bring in true game changers. If a player is going to max out the cap, I want him to be a difference maker that significantly upgrades the team.
If not then I want short term low cost stop gap vets to fill in until the younger players can mature. No more middle of the pack signings such as Hayes that while it does improve the team, ultimately it doesn't significantly elevate them. That's the approach I want the team to take.

Now in terms of specific players, I have certainly names players I have interest in and would like to see the Flyers pursue such as Jones, Hamilton and Blake Coleman.

- MJL

So you consider 76 point career high 3-4 years ago/ on pace for 70 points these last 2 shortened seasons a game changer? Laughable actually.

Kane
Ov
Big Mac
Panarin
Matthews
The list goes on. Those type are game changers. Coots is so far from that it’s unreal. He’s a nice good piece. A piece every team needs some form of. Or would like. But in no cap world do you max your cap out for them. Especially starting at age 30. That’s some chirelli moves.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 22 @ 7:41 PM ET


So as far as a plan is concerned. Just like you can't, nor can anyone else for that matter. I cannot predict or name specific moves that the Flyers should make in the future. For example, poster like to say, I'd trade Voracek. That's a plan? LOL. To what team and for what? That's not giving a plan, that's playing fantasy hockey.

My idea of how a team should approach the future and manage the cap moving forward is that you need to identify what players are in your future and who is not. If you have a player that plays at a high level and is a difference maker. Who makes players around him better that you would have a difficult time replacing, that is a player that you expend high cap dollars to. The caveat being age. Now if Couturier was Giroux's age, I would have different thoughts but there is a big difference between 30 and 34. The issue with the Flyers is that they have 3 high cap hit players that they probably would move on from if they could in the near future. Hayes, Voracek and JVR. The issue with Hayes is that I think he will rebound and be better but in the 2nd half of his deal, it's a possibility that he'll be a high price role player. Short term issue is that they need him at center. It would be a loss of offense form moving on from Voracek and JVR but the hope is that players like Farabee, Allison and Frost develop and help make up for that offense.

I have been involved in many discussions in the Flyers thread about how the Flyers should proceed moving forward. Even though you incorrectly claim that I have no "plan or idea". I've had the same idea about the Flyers ever since Hextall was fired and the Flyers wanted to switch gears. I think the worst place a team can be is to be a good team that is not good enough and is a cap team. Tough to improve in that position. Made even worse by the current flat cap environment. I want the Flyers to pursue two kind of moves aside from the draft in terms of free agency or trades. I want them to bring in true game changers. If a player is going to max out the cap, I want him to be a difference maker that significantly upgrades the team.
If not then I want short term low cost stop gap vets to fill in until the younger players can mature. No more middle of the pack signings such as Hayes that while it does improve the team, ultimately it doesn't significantly elevate them. That's the approach I want the team to take.

Now in terms of specific players, I have certainly names players I have interest in and would like to see the Flyers pursue such as Jones, Hamilton and Blake Coleman.

- MJL



Captain_Ahab
Joined: 03.23.2017

Jun 22 @ 7:41 PM ET
No, you haven't asked me multiple times. You just change the question when you don't have a better answer to my response to the question that you did ask.

So as far as a plan is concerned. Just like you can't, nor can anyone else for that matter. I cannot predict or name specific moves that the Flyers should make in the future. For example, poster like to say, I'd trade Voracek. That's a plan? LOL. To what team and for what? That's not giving a plan, that's playing fantasy hockey.

My idea of how a team should approach the future and manage the cap moving forward is that you need to identify what players are in your future and who is not. If you have a player that plays at a high level and is a difference maker. Who makes players around him better that you would have a difficult time replacing, that is a player that you expend high cap dollars to. The caveat being age. Now if Couturier was Giroux's age, I would have different thoughts but there is a big difference between 30 and 34. The issue with the Flyers is that they have 3 high cap hit players that they probably would move on from if they could in the near future. Hayes, Voracek and JVR. The issue with Hayes is that I think he will rebound and be better but in the 2nd half of his deal, it's a possibility that he'll be a high price role player. Short term issue is that they need him at center. It would be a loss of offense form moving on from Voracek and JVR but the hope is that players like Farabee, Allison and Frost develop and help make up for that offense.

I have been involved in many discussions in the Flyers thread about how the Flyers should proceed moving forward. Even though you incorrectly claim that I have no "plan or idea". I've had the same idea about the Flyers ever since Hextall was fired and the Flyers wanted to switch gears. I think the worst place a team can be is to be a good team that is not good enough and is a cap team. Tough to improve in that position. Made even worse by the current flat cap environment. I want the Flyers to pursue two kind of moves aside from the draft in terms of free agency or trades. I want them to bring in true game changers. If a player is going to max out the cap, I want him to be a difference maker that significantly upgrades the team.
If not then I want short term low cost stop gap vets to fill in until the younger players can mature. No more middle of the pack signings such as Hayes that while it does improve the team, ultimately it doesn't significantly elevate them. That's the approach I want the team to take.

Now in terms of specific players, I have certainly names players I have interest in and would like to see the Flyers pursue such as Jones, Hamilton and Blake Coleman.

- MJL



Again, you make no sense.

You say you don't have time for this, then you respond by writing a book.

I literally asked the same question multiple times.

You literally repeat the same thing over and over. Resign Couturier. Resign Couturier.

Again, again, and again, where is the cap space coming from?

Couturier could be a $8 million cap hit or more and Jones could be $9 or more. Where are you getting that cap space and resign Hart, Sanhaim, Farabee, Frost, and others?

That's why some have stated this being a dangerous time for the Flyers. If Comcast/Fletcher play this wrong,....



MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 22 @ 7:41 PM ET
If you read through this gem carefully, he really does not understand what a plan means. Its full of Monty Pythonesque generalities.

Based on previous encounters, he is also sort of philosophically opposed to the idea of a plan.

- PT21


Another ad hominem attack. I've absolutely offered a plan. It's as specific as any fan can possibly offer without playing fantasy hockey.

What you see here from you is that you're not attempting to discuss any of the content that I actually posted. Instead, you're attempting to discredit me personally because you can't attack the content that I posted.

I'm not at all sort of philosophically opposed to the idea of a plan. I just don't think posting trade Voracek and JVR is a plan.
MJL
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: Candyland, PA
Joined: 09.20.2007

Jun 22 @ 7:44 PM ET
Again, you make no sense.

You say you don't have time for this, then you respond by writing a book.

I literally asked the same question multiple times.

You literally repeat the same thing over and over. Resign Couturier. Resign Couturier.

Again, again, and again, where is the cap space coming from?

Couturier could be a $8 million cap hit or more and Jones could be $9 or more. Where are you getting that cap space and resign Hart, Sanhaim, Farabee, Frost, and others?

That's why some have stated this being a dangerous time for the Flyers. If Comcast/Fletcher play this wrong,....

- Captain_Ahab


What I said I don't have time for is your posts claiming I've never offered a plan and continuously debating that. What you posted above is not having a discussion.


I'm included in the group who has posted that this is a dangerous time for the Flyers. I've been against the team approach since Hextall was fired.

You're right, in discussions on resigning Couturier, I have consistently posted that he should be resigned. While you have consistently posted that he shouldn't be resigned. Repeating it over and over. The cap space is going to come from making other moves.
PT21
Philadelphia Flyers
Location: 木糠布丁, PA
Joined: 03.04.2008

Jun 22 @ 7:44 PM ET
Another ad hominem attack. I've absolutely offered a plan. It's as specific as any fan can possibly offer without playing fantasy hockey.


- MJL


No, what you have offered is the plan for a plan, not a plan itself.

Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:46 PM ET
If you read through this gem carefully, he really does not understand what a plan means. Its full of Monty Pythonesque generalities.

Based on previous encounters, he is also sort of philosophically opposed to the idea of a plan.

- PT21

Here’s players I identify as pieces to build around
Hart
Bee
York
Provy
Tk
Laughts
Sanheim
Myers
Foerester
Oscar
Hayes

Now that I have identified them when contracts come up you absolutely sign them because they have been identified. If we are over the cap tell the league to lick a bag. Mjl plan. Yet he talks about fantasy hockey land.

Great you identified players what you gonna do with them since you can’t keep everyone let alone identify players trade Fa you’d like. How you gonna fit cap?

Or do we try to get rid of a coots later with cap ramifications and age because that’s now the plan? Well what about when had to sign him?
Captain_Ahab
Joined: 03.23.2017

Jun 22 @ 7:47 PM ET
No, what you have offered is the plan for a plan, not a plan itself.


- PT21


My plan is to say I have a plan. Even though I don't have a plan and don't plan on having a plan. I will say I have a plan. Even though it's clear I don't have a plan. Because I plan to plan not to have a plan which actually is a plan.

Soooooo, in a way, I do have a plan. Or not.
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:54 PM ET

- PT21


Omfg!!!😂😂😂😂🤣classic
Did offer a plan?
Did you threaten to offer a plan?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 7:58 PM ET
No, what you have offered is the plan for a plan, not a plan itself.


- PT21


Like someone else posted many times. How you gonna fit all these other players into cap.

Mjl doesn’t understand what a cap is or thought of managing it

I GOT IT!!! HES A MADOFF FOLLOWER!! HE THINKS HE CAN USE A PONZI SCHEME
Captain_Ahab
Joined: 03.23.2017

Jun 22 @ 8:00 PM ET

- PT21





As Homer Simpson once said...."It's funny 'cause it's true."


Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 8:04 PM ET
Like I totally get you love coots and truly believe he’s a 1c and want to keep him. I disagree but I get it. Ok if that’s the plan how does it affect down the line. Simply saying there will be moves is NOT a plan.

Let’s help poor mjl.

Who we gonna lose because of cap? Which young player(s)

Are we trading them for assets?

Package deals??

Are we moving up in a draft to get true1d stud?

Let’s try to help him because we know he doesn’t have an original thought let alone a plan.

Most true fans have thought out many scenarios and have come to I’m sure many different plans. With each move flyers actually make obviously as fans our plans or thoughts surely change.
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 8:13 PM ET
Let’s give mjl some time. Surely he is reeling right now.

So I think Jvr gets taken in Ed. That’s just too good for Seattle to pass up.

I think ghost gets traded sometimes before or at draft. Don’t think the return is anything to write home about.

Those I think happen. I’d love to trade Jake for cap space or coots for assets as that’s his highest value as of now. Don’t think both trades will happen but would love it. I do think and hope 3/4 are gone.

G not going anywhere.

So of the 5
G
Jake
Jvr
Coots
Ghost
3 will be gone and that’s a great start at tearing core down and starting to turn it over.

Captain_Ahab
Joined: 03.23.2017

Jun 22 @ 8:13 PM ET
Like I totally get you love coots and truly believe he’s a 1c and want to keep him. I disagree but I get it. Ok if that’s the plan how does it affect down the line. Simply saying there will be moves is NOT a plan.

Let’s help poor mjl.

Who we gonna lose because of cap? Which young player(s)

Are we trading them for assets?

Package deals??

Are we moving up in a draft to get true1d stud?

Let’s try to help him because we know he doesn’t have an original thought let alone a plan.

Most true fans have thought out many scenarios and have come to I’m sure many different plans. With each move flyers actually make obviously as fans our plans or thoughts surely change.

- Stayin alive


The Flyers really need to take advantage of the expansion draft. It may cost a decent pick to take a contract off our hands.

Seattle can easily say they want NAK because he's cheap and young. They have all the power.

But if they would take JVR and his $7 million cap hit, that would help so much.
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 8:16 PM ET
Let’s give mjl some time. Surely he is reeling right now.

So I think Jvr gets taken in Ed. That’s just too good for Seattle to pass up.

I think ghost gets traded sometimes before or at draft. Don’t think the return is anything to write home about.

Those I think happen. I’d love to trade Jake for cap space or coots for assets as that’s his highest value as of now. Don’t think both trades will happen but would love it. I do think and hope 3/4 are gone.

G not going anywhere.

So of the 5
G
Jake
Jvr
Coots
Ghost
3 will be gone and that’s a great start at tearing core down and starting to turn it over.

- Stayin alive


If can’t land a big fish with cap space or assets just sign a few quality vet d to help for a year or 2 tops and continue to gain assets and draft. Don’t blow cap up (especially with coots) good things come to those that wait
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 8:22 PM ET
The Flyers really need to take advantage of the expansion draft. It may cost a decent pick to take a contract off our hands.

Seattle can easily say they want NAK because he's cheap and young. They have all the power.

But if they would take JVR and his $7 million cap hit, that would help so much.

- Captain_Ahab


Honestly I’d call Seattle bluff. They’ll have to get to floor. Not many players gonna have short term 7 mil cap with actual low real $ to pay like Jvr. Nak is a scrub that won’t be in league in a year or 2. Not worried about Seattle plucking him. Or hagg or those low cost bums. Why would they pass on other younger cheaper players from other teams who probably better. Hagg is a 7th dman ideally. Nak bum
Stayin alive
Joined: 06.10.2021

Jun 22 @ 8:23 PM ET
The Flyers really need to take advantage of the expansion draft. It may cost a decent pick to take a contract off our hands.

Seattle can easily say they want NAK because he's cheap and young. They have all the power.

But if they would take JVR and his $7 million cap hit, that would help so much.

- Captain_Ahab

I mean if they really want to try to squeeze us I’d give them a 5th rounder. Nothing higher. Just to make them feel they win the deal
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