Honestly regarding hasek… best ever bar none. I can’t even tell you how many games 1 goal or less on him. Save after save. “We’re not worthy “chant all night long at the old aud. Sabres horrible team around him. Had no $ to spend except around ‘95 and injuries did that team in. Dude can’t even tell you how many times players looking to rafters in amazement didn’t score on him. Nightly and I mean nightly no joke.

2nd point yes you can absolutely predict getting and hitting on these goalies. Invest the 1st round pick because teams won’t but only for top goalie prospect in draft class like my goalie drafting theory. Lol. Like earlier tonight when someone said vasy was picked 19th didn’t count toward a top 5 pick. Yeah because dummies don’t draft top goalie prospects in 1st round even sometimes. Dumb. He was stud prospect like price. Or flower. Why the hell not pick them? So dumb. And they come about every 5 years.
- Stayin alive

to be fair, fleury was not always this. his career was the very definition of peaks and valleys. can say system, whatever. but if he gave the pens a 5 year stretch of what hes given vegas this year from 2010 to 2015, the pens probably have another pair of cups. instead it was repeated abortions of the most obscene variety.

Yeah I think habs give tb all they can handle but I truly believe speed and elite skill almost always win out. Think hasek vs Dallas in ‘99. Even hasek COULDNT win out in end. But never know. I just want tb karma for cap cheating
- Stayin alive

ill admit its sour grapes and sure by the letter of the rule it wasnt technically cheating, but definitely agree there.

youre dead on there.
- stayinthefnnet

Meanwhile flyers fans argue about signing 30 year old to max term big $ contract because 70 point player. So laughable

Well, I also see a team that had only one more point than the Flyers this regular season --the same team that lost to the Flyers in the playoffs last year (after throwing a scare into them) after squeaking in through the addition of play-ins and dismantling Pittsburgh -- is presently two wins away from the Cup Final even after an OT loss last game.

I see that the Flyers started out 11-4-3 despite not playing anything close to their best hockey. Part of what made this such a weird season is that the Flyers team analytics were awful when the team was 11-4-3 and were actually in the black in many key areas the rest of the way yet the club's record was awful because so damn many pucks ended up in their net and they were no longer outscoring their mistakes. That's a strange combination.

The Flyers aren't as close on paper right now as we'd want them to be -- I don't think anyone can credibly dispute that-- but they also aren't as far away as some think. Not everything that went wrong this season will stay broken just as not everything that improved so dramatically the year before will automatically snap back into place. Changes are needed and there will HAVE to be holdovers that also improve along the way.
- bmeltzer

Yeah, but the HABS have Cole Caufield.

to be fair, fleury was not always this. his career was the very definition of peaks and valleys. can say system, whatever. but if he gave the pens a 5 year stretch of what hes given vegas this year from 2010 to 2015, the pens probably have another pair of cups. instead it was repeated abortions of the most obscene variety.
- stayinthefnnet

Honestly those few years the wild ones with battles with philly I don’t put on flower at all. I’d have loved to gotten him. Can’t believe pit let him go. Maybe there was more to story but always looked at it like it was gonna be series of run and gun. And pit had other issues. Team play. D play. Right or wrong mix of players. I never put flower as a problem on that team. Last guy I would’ve put blame on. Kinda like hart season this year. Goalies when things out of whack will over compensate and don’t play their game. It’s the game within the game. But when straightened out the cream of the crop rises and flower always was that in my book. Still is.

Yeah, but the HABS have Cole Caufield.
- mayorofangrytown

Point?

Honestly those few years the wild ones with battles with philly I don’t put on flower at all. I’d have loved to gotten him. Can’t believe pit let him go. Maybe there was more to story but always looked at it like it was gonna be series of run and gun. And pit had other issues. Team play. D play. Right or wrong mix of players. I never put flower as a problem on that team. Last guy I would’ve put blame on. Kinda like hart season this year. Goalies when things out of whack will over compensate and don’t play their game. It’s the game within the game. But when straightened out the cream of the crop rises and flower always was that in my book. Still is.
- Stayin alive

They were prone to breakdowns in front of him, but he had a huge hand in a lot of unforced mental errors in the worst spots. He was due for a change most likely. That being said, it was definitely in large part related to the cap. You can’t keep everyone. At the time murray looked decent and you have to go young and cheaper where you can in a cap world. Hindsight is a female dog but I won’t crucify the pens for moving on how they did.

Now it will be painfully funny if it turns out they had to pay vegas to take him in the ED, just to flounder with poor goalie play for three plus years only to turn around and come full circle to give vegas assets to take his contract back this offseason.

They were prone to breakdowns in front of him, but he had a huge hand in a lot of unforced mental errors in the worst spots. He was due for a change most likely. That being said, it was definitely in large part related to the cap. You can’t keep everyone. At the time murray looked decent and you have to go young and cheaper where you can in a cap world. Hindsight is a female dog but I won’t crucify the pens for moving on how they did.

Now it will be painfully funny if it turns out they had to pay vegas to take him in the ED, just to flounder with poor goalie play for three plus years only to turn around and come full circle to give vegas assets to take his contract back this offseason.
- stayinthefnnet

Generally speaking really good goalies don’t generally flounder for that extended period of time. Something was going on. You don’t just go to Vegas an all star great again for years. Weird indeed

Point?
- Stayin alive

Yep. That’s the point.

Let’s say 20 of 30 teams have elite player(s) at the key positions g/d/1c or at least 1 or more on team at those positions.

If only 1 team wins the cup and 19 WITHOUT those players don’t win

What do think your odds are of winning cup WITHOUT ANY OF THOSE ELITE PLAYERS.

You can’t win without the elite players. Yes you have to STILL build the team around them. And spare the goalie steals a cup bs. Even when skilled teams win (blues popular reference) they still have a ton of fringe elite players that happen to have goalie play out of mind. And it happens very rarely
- Stayin alive

How many elite payers does Montreal have? Price and maybe at one time Weber? Yet they are 1 win away from the Cup finals? I agree overall you have a much better chance of winning the cup with elite players in the G/1D/1C positions, but the argument is not against this point, the argument is whether you need to draft in the top 5 to get them. Clearly Tampa did not need to draft in the top 5 to obtain all their top players.

How many elite payers does Montreal have? Price and maybe at one time Weber? Yet they are 1 win away from the Cup finals? I agree overall you have a much better chance of winning the cup with elite players in the G/1D/1C positions, but the argument is not against this point, the argument is whether you need to draft in the top 5 to get them. Clearly Tampa did not need to draft in the top 5 to obtain all their top players.
- jd250

Agreed, you don't need to get in the top 5 to get elite, you need some luck to get them also. Maybe an Allison or Desnoyer or Mcclellon can be one of our lucky guys....here's hoping

He actually thinks I am trying to "spin it" 😂 through the rudimentary notion of fractions. He STILL hasn't understood what 10 of the 25 critical players (of his own choosing) coming from a pool that is 50 times smaller than the non -top-5 pool means regarding the relative chances.

The light bulb will never go on because the circuitry is kaput.
- PT21

You actually think I'm commenting on what the chances are. I'm not. I have stipulated in response directly to you many times, including on this thread. That if you want to state that the best way to get an elite player is to draft in the top 5, you would be correct. Numerous times. Yet I need psychiatric help.

they have a ton of good young up and coming pieces who are all buying in. wont disagree there.
- stayinthefnnet

They do. They also only got into the postseason last year because of the post-pause expansion of the playoffs, and they were the 4th place team in the NHL's weakest division this season (in fact, they only had one more point than the Flyers; who beat Montreal in the playoffs last year after a scare).

Meanwhile flyers fans argue about signing 30 year old to max term big $ contract because 70 point player. So laughable
- Stayin alive

28 years old..... he won't be 30 until Dec. 7, 2022.

How many elite payers does Montreal have? Price and maybe at one time Weber? Yet they are 1 win away from the Cup finals? I agree overall you have a much better chance of winning the cup with elite players in the G/1D/1C positions, but the argument is not against this point, the argument is whether you need to draft in the top 5 to get them. Clearly Tampa did not need to draft in the top 5 to obtain all their top players.
- jd250

Exactly. I listed the top 5 most important players from the last 5 Cup champs. Clearly, you are not doomed as a team if you don't have a top 5 pick. Clearly, you don't need to break it down in desperation and the hope that you can get a top 5 pick. It blows PT21's argument out of the water. The facts are clear. He's now on to claiming that I need psychiatric help. In a hockey discussion. Can't make this up.

28 years old..... he won't be 30 until Dec. 7, 2022.
- bmeltzer

Another example of how he does not have the facts correct.

How many elite payers does Montreal have? Price and maybe at one time Weber? Yet they are 1 win away from the Cup finals? I agree overall you have a much better chance of winning the cup with elite players in the G/1D/1C positions, but the argument is not against this point, the argument is whether you need to draft in the top 5 to get them. Clearly Tampa did not need to draft in the top 5 to obtain all their top players.
- jd250

It's not only about elite players, sure it's nice to have a few but it's about building a balanced team where everyone buys into achieving a team objective. The Habs relish the role of underdogs and want to prove everyone wrong, it just makes winning so much sweeter.

I think Edmonton and Toronto are examples of what not to do ... sure they have tons of superstars but they can't get out of the first round year after year.

It's not only about elite players, sure it's nice to have a few but it's about building a balanced team where everyone buys into achieving a team objective. The Habs relish the role of underdogs and want to prove everyone wrong, it just makes winning so much sweeter.

I think Edmonton and Toronto are examples of what not to do ... sure they have tons of superstars but they can't get out of the first round year after year.
- Garfield512

Remember when the Habs got killed for making the Weber for PK Subban deal?

Remember when the Habs got killed for making the Weber for PK Subban deal?
- MJL

Yes I do ... no offense to Subban but I'm very happy to have Weber as our captain. We traded a hotdog for a character player ... I want a warrior during the playoffs, not a pretty boy who plays for the girls in the crowd.

I guess it took a few years (and draft picks) to make that trade work out.

Agreed, you don't need to get in the top 5 to get elite, you need some luck to get them also. Maybe an Allison or Desnoyer or Mcclellon can be one of our lucky guys....here's hoping
- bradster

Yes, and I have even better examples of players that can become top players: Hart, Farabee and York. Farabee for one is right inline with Pastrnak's first two years in the league, so there is hope. Farabee just needs to add more muscle to increase his strength and then I think he has a real chance. I still have a ton of faith in Hart, he is a proven winner on the world stage, he should be able to bounce back. And York has a lot of promise so far. Depending on the depth of the draft, drafting around 12-14 for a few years should get you good players that have this kind of potential. The key is hitting on your draft picks, that is what separate the contending teams from the rest.

So we beat Habs last year (1 win away from SC) and took Isles to 7. I know Habs added few guys, but Maybe we aren’t as far off as some think…

So we beat Habs last year (1 win away from SC) and took Isles to 7. I know Habs added few guys, but Maybe we aren’t as far off as some think…
- arichardson22

I personally believe that last year was an outlier. For a variety of reasons. I don't believe the team is a contender yet and I don't believe that Fletcher can make moves this off season to fast track them to contender status. However they are no where near as bad as they played last season. I believe the majority of young players will improve and become really good NHL players. Not all but many. As was said by a previous poster, you need draft picks to hit. Like every other team.

I personally believe that last year was an outlier. For a variety of reasons. I don't believe the team is a contender yet and I don't believe that Fletcher can make moves this off season to fast track them to contender status. However they are no where near as bad as they played last season. I believe the majority of young players will improve and become really good NHL players. Not all but many. As was said by a previous poster, you need draft picks to hit. Like every other team.
- MJL

You were certainly better than us last year and deserved to win ... I didn't follow your team this year so I can't comment on that.

As for us, our kids gained experience this year and we added some key (experienced) pieces here and there.

I'm sure you could do the same and turn things around, I think Vigneault knows what he's doing but he'll need more time. JMO

28 years old..... he won't be 30 until Dec. 7, 2022.
- bmeltzer

… and people seem to ignore the other aspects to the game. A 70 point player in the prime of his career who is a first line Center and can shut down the other teams’ top lines, kill penalties, and is a leader don’t grow on trees. Coots is worth the price of a new contract and as a piece to build around.

They do. They also only got into the postseason last year because of the post-pause expansion of the playoffs, and they were the 4th place team in the NHL's weakest division this season (in fact, they only had one more point than the Flyers; who beat Montreal in the playoffs last year after a scare).
- bmeltzer

This really doesn’t matter at all, they are playing great hockey and beating really good teams