You were certainly better than us last year and deserved to win ... I didn't follow your team this year so I can't comment on that.

As for us, our kids gained experience this year and we added some key (experienced) pieces here and there.

I'm sure you could do the same and turn things around, I think Vigneault knows what he's doing but he'll need more time. JMO
- Garfield512

The Flyers lost a few veteran role players and a first line defenseman and gambled that the kids were ready to pick up the slack. They weren't.

The Flyers lost a few veteran role players and a first line defenseman and gambled that the kids were ready to pick up the slack. They weren't.
- Dkos

THIS!

The Flyers lost a few veteran role players and a first line defenseman and gambled that the kids were ready to pick up the slack. They weren't.
- Dkos

Exactly. It snowballed from there.

The Flyers lost a few veteran role players and a first line defenseman and gambled that the kids were ready to pick up the slack. They weren't.
- Dkos

Agreed. And I think the circumstances of the season affected them more than some other teams. Call it an excuse (and it is), but it doesn't make it any less true.

That is on the players and the franchise for not doing more to deal with it.

Agreed. And I think the circumstances of the season affected them more than some other teams. Call it an excuse (and it is), but it doesn't make it any less true.

That is on the players and the franchise for not doing more to deal with it.
- MBFlyerfan

I can live with players having a down year, and i guess its bad luck that it happened to everyone. Its the total lack of compete and lack of professionalism that really concerned me. Thats why we need a new culture, and good 5 new starters would help.

I can live with players having a down year, and i guess its bad luck that it happened to everyone. Its the total lack of compete and lack of professionalism that really concerned me. Thats why we need a new culture, and good 5 new starters would help.
- bradster

Honest question. What do you mean by professionalism?

My biggest concern was how fragile they seem(ed) to be. Their confidence in themselves and each other was IMO their #1 issue. They didn't trust themselves or each other on the ice and it led to one breakdown after another as everyone seemed to be worried about who else wasn't doing their job and in turn didn't do their job trying to compensate.

I've called it the Kelly Leak syndrome. Except none of them could be Kelly Leak.

The Athletic recently did a piece about Phil Myers and his constant mental errors and mistakes. They showed a number of examples. But one thing I noticed in almost every one was that if the goalie made a makeable save the mistake would have been erased. That kind of thing kills both players confidence in themselves and each other.

I can live with players having a down year, and i guess its bad luck that it happened to everyone. Its the total lack of compete and lack of professionalism that really concerned me. Thats why we need a new culture, and good 5 new starters would help.
- bradster

I agree, there were many games that were alarming to put in kindly. I think a lot of it is mental and an extreme lack of confidence. The mental side of sports is huge. We see it in every sport. Right now the Habs are confident and believe in the themselves. That makes them a dangerous team and they are giving what on paper is a superior team, a rough ride and are up in the series.

Honest question. What do you mean by professionalism?

My biggest concern was how fragile they seem(ed) to be. Their confidence in themselves and each other was IMO their #1 issue. They didn't trust themselves or each other on the ice and it led to one breakdown after another as everyone seemed to be worried about who else wasn't doing their job and in turn didn't do their job trying to compensate.

I've called it the Kelly Leak syndrome. Except none of them could be Kelly Leak.

The Athletic recently did a piece about Phil Myers and his constant mental errors and mistakes. They showed a number of examples. But one thing I noticed in almost every one was that if the goalie made a makeable save the mistake would have been erased. That kind of thing kills both players confidence in themselves and each other.
- MBFlyerfan

You're exactly right. I can't read the article but I would bet that not only did the goalie not make a makeable save but there were other breakdowns by other players. During the season, I broke a number of goals against where Myers was the blamed culprit where I detailed how Myers had to choose which player to cover out of multiple open players due to breakdowns from other players. There were also plenty of instances where Myers was the biggest breakdown and there was a stretch where he was non competitive.

Honest question. What do you mean by professionalism?

My biggest concern was how fragile they seem(ed) to be. Their confidence in themselves and each other was IMO their #1 issue. They didn't trust themselves or each other on the ice and it led to one breakdown after another as everyone seemed to be worried about who else wasn't doing their job and in turn didn't do their job trying to compensate.

I've called it the Kelly Leak syndrome. Except none of them could be Kelly Leak.

The Athletic recently did a piece about Phil Myers and his constant mental errors and mistakes. They showed a number of examples. But one thing I noticed in almost every one was that if the goalie made a makeable save the mistake would have been erased. That kind of thing kills both players confidence in themselves and each other.
- MBFlyerfan

I mean trying hard every game, you get paid to play ,and it sure seemed they quit playing quite a few games, that is not being a pro. Come to work in shape and ready to play hard.

Meyers is another discussion. Some of the mistakes he was making can not happen. Standing beside someone as they bang in the puck, he is more or less watching them do it. Not finishing checks in his own end, when he needs to take the man out of the play.....and lots of other mistakes.

I mean trying hard every game, you get paid to play ,and it sure seemed they quit playing quite a few games, that is not being a pro. Come to work in shape and ready to play hard.

Meyers is another discussion. Some of the mistakes he was making can not happen. Standing beside someone as they bang in the puck, he is more or less watching them do it. Not finishing checks in his own end, when he needs to take the man out of the play.....and lots of other mistakes.
- bradster

Agree on Myers. I heard he was a big physical guy who could skate. Yep, he is big and can skate, but where was the physical? It just disappeared.

Again, I think his confidence level was shot. Chicken and egg. But that is where the coaching staff needed to step up and figure out a way to get these guys right.

Agree on Myers. I heard he was a big physical guy who could skate. Yep, he is big and can skate, but where was the physical? It just disappeared.

Again, I think his confidence level was shot. Chicken and egg. But that is where the coaching staff needed to step up and figure out a way to get these guys right.
- MBFlyerfan

We talked during the season and if you remember I stated that the only reset that will work with this team at the point is an off season. Myers was so mentally frustrated and so lacking in confidence that the only thing that would work at that point is the season ending. Hopefully, he recovers and improves.

The Flyers lost a few veteran role players and a first line defenseman and gambled that the kids were ready to pick up the slack. They weren't.
- Dkos

What if the expectations were too high? All I heard last summer is how Myers could be a top pair defenseman. Should be tried with Provorov, after Niskanen left.

What if the expectations were too high? All I heard last summer is how Myers could be a top pair defenseman. Should be tried with Provorov, after Niskanen left.
- SuperSchennBros

They may have been too high, but after the previous season and how well everyone played, i expected the younger guys to keep their upward trajectory, i sure wasn't expecting that s$@#show last year

How many elite payers does Montreal have? Price and maybe at one time Weber? Yet they are 1 win away from the Cup finals? I agree overall you have a much better chance of winning the cup with elite players in the G/1D/1C positions, but the argument is not against this point, the argument is whether you need to draft in the top 5 to get them. Clearly Tampa did not need to draft in the top 5 to obtain all their top players.
- jd250

I don't think anyone has ever suggested you need to draft there. Certainly, I have not come across such a post or poster.

But you should be clear eyed about how skewed the odds are. MJL posted a list yesterday which he thought contradicts this point. It turned out that the chances of getting such a critical player where 33 times more in the top 5 of the draft than outside it.

Lets say there are two boxes. One has 20 red marbles and 80 blue ones. The other has 200 red marbles and 9800 blue ones.

People look at the fact that there were more red marbles drawn from the second one to point out that you don't NEED to pick from the first to get a Red marble. But that misses the point that the chances of getting a red marble is 10 times more in the first box than the second one.

If you want to play the low stakes game, knock yourself out. But don't pretend the two are in any way equivalent. Equivalence is not an opinion; it is a statistical lie.

What if the expectations were too high? All I heard last summer is how Myers could be a top pair defenseman. Should be tried with Provorov, after Niskanen left.
- SuperSchennBros

Definitely, but Niskanen wasn't supposed to leave for another year. Management misjudged things. Fletcher made all the right moves going into his first season here. Brought in a first line veteran defenseman to play with Provorov. Made some smaller moves adding solid veteran defensive defenseman and a couple of solid veteran roleplaying forwards. You could argue Hayes wasn't a great move, but it sure looked good last season. All of those positive moves were gone this season (a season with very limited practice time) and it was all put on the kids.

You actually think I'm commenting on what the chances are. I'm not. I have stipulated in response directly to you many times, including on this thread. That if you want to state that the best way to get an elite player is to draft in the top 5, you would be correct. Numerous times. Yet I need psychiatric help.

- MJL

Yes, as a well wisher, I have often thought of PMing you, but was not sure how it would received. There are some clear alarming signs I have seen. This coupled with your family history, makes for my strong urging, not a desire to insult.

Whatever your judgment on this matter, I thought I exercised enormous patience with you yesterday. You frequently forget, get lost in the most elementary logical arguments that a child could do better in, and believe that these issues can be overcome by incessant arguing.

Until you take clear steps to address this, I am afraid the last will have to be done with someone else going forward.

I don't think anyone has ever suggested you need to draft there. Certainly, I have not come across such a post or poster.

But you should be clear eyed about how skewed the odds are. MJL posted a list yesterday which he thought contradicts this point. It turned out that the chances of getting such a critical player where 33 times more in the top 5 of the draft than outside it.


- PT21

You are continually confusing two different arguments. You are also the poster who has consistently suggested you need to draft in the top 5. That is supported by your continued stance that the Flyers should tank to obtain high top 5 draft picks and statements that every Cup team has a player drafted in the top 5. The list I posted points out simply that you can obtain critical top elite players outside of the top 5 picks in the draft. It was not in response to what the odds are for obtaining an elite player. As I've said many times previously in response to you, if you want to say that the best way to obtain an elite player is to draft with a top 5 pick, you would be correct. The list of players that I posted irrefutably disputes your claim that the Flyers should tank for the best outcome for the future. It served it's purpose as you've been unable to credibly respond just as you were unable to credibly respond to what Bill posted in the blog. Other than making personal remarks.

Do you think Giroux is a Hall Of Famer?
- MBFlyerfan

No! If he wins a cup, slim chance. If not, no chance!

28 years old..... he won't be 30 until Dec. 7, 2022.
- bmeltzer

Hell be 30 when new contract starts

Another example of how he does not have the facts correct.
- MJL

He’ll be 30 when new contract starts. Facts straight per usual. But go ahead

If the Flyers re-sign Sean Couturier to a new contract, that contract will take effect for the 22/23 season. When that contract takes effect, Sean Couturier will be 29 years of age.

I’m on a Warriors team and there’s no way in hell I’d play against that lineup lol. Unless they agreed to go at 25%.

As far as trading Cooter. HELL. NO. You pay him what he wants to stay. End of story.