Are you saying a top 2 dman in the entire league? Or a #2 on a top pair?
- hello it's me 2050

spell it out for this dude.

Fair enough. I respect you, your pov, and likewise for Bill.

But there is a case for trading Couturier in the current situation Flyers find themself in. It is a solid one, supported both by probabilities and precedent (other teams have done it too). It is not outlandish.
- PT21

Hey man, I also prefaced my argument suggesting a lot better guy s then Coots have been moved in their prime….if there was a deal, the players coming back would have to be substantial and assets that are for today, not 3 years from now.

We have salary to shed.
- SuperSchennBros

not really without moving some out first. that's especially true if they're serious about upgrading the defense.

To be fair the first part of your post is correct….but I dont see Bill’s response as being illogical. He also has a pulse on what the Flyers are actually thinking. I don’t always agree with him but it’s a position that differs from yours…that’s all. I actually understand yours and others position, I just think a rebuild isn’t necessary. I think they have enough assets to add some pieces that may make this team look a lot better, very quickly.
- landros 2

People dont want to move those assets however for the most part.

not really without moving some out first. that's especially true if they're serious about upgrading the defense.
- Ftown19125

I wouldn’t upgrade the defense to the expect everyone speaks of but I would upgrade it.

Its interesting to note Pittsburgh had Lemieux, Stevens, Recchi and Coffey but didn't have the ingredients necessary to win a cup until they traded Recchi for Tocchet and Samuelsson in 1992; then they won 2 cups. The Flyers had Lindros and Recchi but were not getting to the next level until they traded Recchi in 1995 and got Desjardin and LeClair., and then got to the finals in 1997. Unfortunately for the Flyers right now, there is no Lemieux or Lindros on their roster to build around. That is their number 1 issue IMO. I am not saying you need a generational talent, but you do need a strong core to build around, and that is what the Flyers lack. I agree the hope is they have to draft better than they did under Hextall and develop this core and build around it.
- jd250

I’m confused… but if we sign coots to this max term deal he will certainly get at huge money doesn’t that really help solve the problem? Or is coots really not the answer in that department. 36 37 38 year old coots? 🤮

spell it out for this dude.
- Ftown19125

2 Timothy 3:7
Always learning and never able to arrive at a knowledge of the truth.

Hey man, I also prefaced my argument suggesting a lot better guy s then Coots have been moved in their prime….if there was a deal, the players coming back would have to be substantial and assets that are for today, not 3 years from now.
- landros 2

Sums it up perfectly. I don't want to trade couts, but cant discount what the return could be. Some people sound like you wouldn't get anything back from him...which is total nonsense.

To be fair the first part of your post is correct….but I dont see Bill’s response as being illogical. He also has a pulse on what the Flyers are actually thinking. I don’t always agree with him but it’s a position that differs from yours…that’s all. I actually understand yours and others position, I just think a rebuild isn’t necessary. I think they have enough assets to add some pieces that may make this team look a lot better, very quickly.
- landros 2

Honestly, they are illogical on the merit of it . Just because some players did not decline in their 30s doesn't mean that Couturier will follow that trend, does it? You have to look at overall probabilities.

Also, the argument for keeping Couts, and the hole that will be present in the lineup if he goes, and so on ...all of that is based on the premise that we really need to maintain our regular season trajectory. But this regular season trajectory hasn't gotten us any postseason success. How exactly is Couts continuing presence going to help in that regard? Could it possibly harm it? What happens if the current young kids DONT turn out to be studs, and Couts begins at best a slow decline? Where is the discussion of that very real possibility? Is there any blessed *guarantee* THAT wont happen?

Are you saying a top 2 dman in the entire league? Or a #2 on a top pair?
- hello it's me 2050

top 2 d man on a consistent playoff team

Age along with speed are the biggest concerns of each player who plays hockey. It’s the circle of life. Younger more skilled players come in and older players become a shell of their former selves. Jordan Staal. Ryan Kessler. Let’s say the defensive awareness doesn’t slow down. The offense will. Bergeron with Marchand are creating two on one’s short handed. I don’t see Coots doing this today. My guess is, if you think Couturier is slow now, I wouldn’t rule out that he can’t get slower by his mid 30’s.
- SuperSchennBros

You clearly didn’t watch Jordan staal in the playoffs, and I believe Kessler had like chronic back issues or something

Age along with speed are the biggest concerns of each player who plays hockey. It’s the circle of life. Younger more skilled players come in and older players become a shell of their former selves. Jordan Staal. Ryan Kessler. Let’s say the defensive awareness doesn’t slow down. The offense will. Bergeron with Marchand are creating two on one’s short handed. I don’t see Coots doing this today. My guess is, if you think Couturier is slow now, I wouldn’t rule out that he can’t get slower by his mid 30’s.
- SuperSchennBros

Your right. This is where it doesn’t get tricky. That’s a big ticket for a guy that will make most of the $ on the wrong side of 30. (If not all). The final 3-4 years of an 8 year deal he probably won’t be an 8 million dollar player. That’s the rub.

Hey man, I also prefaced my argument suggesting a lot better guy s then Coots have been moved in their prime….if there was a deal, the players coming back would have to be substantial and assets that are for today, not 3 years from now.
- landros 2

Sure about the first. ✋

I disagree about the nature of the haul but that is a different argument.

Your right. His is where it doesn’t get tricky. That’s a big ticket for a guy that will make most of the $ on the wrong side of 30. (If not all). The final 3-4 years of an 8 year deal he probably won’t be an 8 million dollar player. That’s the rub.
- landros 2

That’s the rub on any long term deal for a player that age, it’s the cost of doing business. This is a non issue.

what team in the NHL doesn't have young guys drafted in the last 5 years playing for them? lol....any?
- landros 2

not sure and they should, doesn't take away from Hextall's picks. Add in some of them play up in the line up and there is success.

Bergeron's career was almost over due to concussions at one point. Not many people remember that. Like Coots, he's been in the league since 18... ton of miles on him. Yet he's still dominating in his 30's.

The question isn't should they sign Coots or not.... it's basically a no-brainer if he's willing. The real question is how they plan to structure the deal. 8-years + NMC carries some enormous risks.
- Tomahawk

Bergy is also a hall of famer. Playing on a line with 2 hall of famers. Most likely

It's actually a bad point. It assumes facts not in evidence. It assumes that none of the Flyers young players are going to develop into top players to compliment Couturier as a player moving forward. It's completely blind to the possibilities of the future.
- MJL

I can see farabee on Coots wing making 2/3rds of a great line. If they can find the perfect compliment, it will be really good.

Such as the trading away of superstar Jagr by the Pens leading to a succession of very high picks of Fluery and Sydney and Malkin.

Those guys never won anything. Utter failure, that move. That team: constant rebuild move ever since.
- PT21

Succession of high picks? They were bottom feeders for almost 10 years. They got luckily that Sid and Geno were generational talent. They were also guaranteed 1st overall pick.

As of now theres a lottery meaning like 2007 we can move back and lose out on a guy like Kane and to make matters worse you can only have the 1st overall 2 times in the last 5 years. The tank method doesnt work anymore. EDM and BUF are prime examples. Unless you get lucky and a generational player is available the year you have the 1st overall pick, you arent going to improve.

Honestly, they are illogical on the merit of it . Just because some players did not decline in their 30s doesn't mean that Couturier will follow that trend, does it? You have to look at overall probabilities.

Also, the argument for keeping Couts, and the hole that will be present in the lineup if he goes, and so on ...all of that is based on the premise that we really need to maintain our regular season trajectory. But this regular season trajectory hasn't gotten us any postseason success. How exactly is Couts continuing presence going to help in that regard? Could it possibly harm it? What happens if the current young kids DONT turn out to be studs, and Couts begins at best a slow decline? Where is the discussion of that very real possibility? Is there any blessed *guarantee* THAT wont happen?
- PT21

I just don’t things are as dire as you do. I think some of the young guys that regressed last year will be better this year….all of them?…no. But is that a reason to trade your best player ? Because it would provide the biggest return ? I do agree the current core hasn’t been successful and that’s why I think it’s imperative for Fletcher to make changes. The current mix is not a winning mix in my view …I just have seen to many rebuilds or quasi rebuilds…lol…fail and lead a team into oblivion. I agree any contract to a player of Coot’s is a risk….but do you really see the Flyers moving on from Coots by their choice?

so then ratcliffe ginning, obrien rubstov laberge all count , great
- bradster

Don't look past O'Brien, he is the real deal IMO.

if i can get 70% of that production and 50% of the same cap hit on a FA id take it. You dont always need to replace production 1 for 1. Thats not how hockey works. Just like sometimes there is addition by subtraction. Nothing is linear
- bradster

Does that apply to term too?
Example move coots for assets and replace with Hayes instead of the 7-8 year term for coots Hayes would only have 4 years left on current deal.

Trading Couts would be the equivalent of hiring the Three Stooges to fix your plumbing, and having them discover the problem is all these wires running through your pipes!

- jd250

🤣🤣

Owners cant help themselves and get stuck with bad long term deals. Always wondered why they never pushed for 5 year max terms. Yes they will have to give up something to get it.
- hello it's me 2050

Just tell them 5 year max deal or no guarantee contracts.

Don't look past O'Brien, he is the real deal IMO.
- jd250

I know youve said it before, and maybe he is, and i hope so, but right now he is the highest player drafted in that year, that hasn't played a game yet, and that will only grow after this year.

I just don’t things are as dire as you do. I think some of the young guys that regressed last year will be better this year….all of them?…no. But is that a reason to trade your best player ? Because it would provide the biggest return ? I do agree the current core hasn’t been successful and that’s why I think it’s imperative for Fletcher to make changes. The current mix is not a winning mix in my view …I just have seen to many rebuilds or quasi rebuilds…lol…fail and lead a team into oblivion. I agree any contract to a player of Coot’s is a risk….but do you really see the Flyers moving on from Coots by their choice?
- landros 2

so there is a probability some of the players bounce back or get better?