I've spent most of a couple of years finding bright lights in Kerfoot's game only to be more disappointed than pleased. McCann is better, but I suspect frequently also disappointing.

The problem with Holl - and this is the thing . . . for $2m, I don't find many RHD who I think would be as effective in a top-4 role. When I start to expand that to what I think is around a $4m player (like Larsson), is the improvement that much better than what Holl brought to justify a $2m addition to the cap hit in the position?

Ideally we'll save around $2.5m in the goalie position. Simmonds, love him or hate him (I am so far in the latter category here it's aggravating that he resigned), nets us another $600k.

Hyman was making $2.2. So if you can get Zack back for $4.5, you still only have around $1m to spread around the lineup. If Zack doesn't come back, then we're looking for an energy guy with pace and perhaps some hockey IQ for under $4m. That still doesn't leave us much room to improve upon Justin Holl.

If we'd kept McCann and lost Kerfoot, that would improve upon those numbers by $600k. It's not a significant enough Margin.

If Kerfoot goes and you can replace his 3C spot with a $2m centre (and my little brain keeps saying, "Riley Nash"), then you have $1.5m to throw into the kitty - which still only gets us into the $4m - $4.5m stratosphere when we talk a replacement for Holl. Most of the options in that range are all okay, but they're just shiny - I don't think most are actually better.
- Monkeypunk

And what are you doing with Freddy's 5 million?

Delegating an extra million or two to upgrade a pretty critical pairing is not adding a 10 million dollar player.
- joel878

No its gotta be either 2m or 10m.

At this point, I'm looking for Dubas to really wow me with what he does this offseason. Yes, I understand that in theory, we lost hallander and a 7th. But I still don't get how they know for sure Holl would be the pick or why they couldn't replace Holl with Dermott. We had the opportunity of keeping McCann and flipping kerfoot once his bonus is paid for assets that could be used later or for the team right now.

No - we must keep Justin Holl because he's 2M and he played on the 2nd pair and didn't embarrass himself.

Why spend any more money on this amazing d-corps? We need forwards because this team can't score and our Core 4 needs as much support as you can possibly buy.


- mjones242

Yeah, I've tried and I can't get on board with the logic there. It's not happening.

All signs from that ilk point back to doing everything you can to maintain the status quo, and eventually some sort of breakthrough will occur?

Can't rule it out I guess, I'm just not the type to do the same thing and expect a different outcome.

Severalli not at TSN
- Canada Cup

Huh. News to me.

Show me 2M d men that played 20+ mins and produced at a 50%+ GF% rate. Or at least close to it.

I don't see any players they could have replaced him with unless you want to pay 3.5M and why would we do that?
- Santo_44

if they went 7-3-1 and lost Holl, they could find a replacement for Holl using the $2M from his cap hit combined with the 3.5M by trading Kerfoot for that replacement.

if they went 7-3-1 and lost Holl, they could find a replacement for Holl using the $2M from his cap hit combined with the 3.5M by trading Kerfoot for that replacement.
- PatC80

And get the same results?

Holl is underpaid and works.

Money goes to adding to the forwards and a goalie.

No - we must keep Justin Holl because he's 2M and he played on the 2nd pair and didn't embarrass himself.

Why spend any more money on this amazing d-corps? We need forwards because this team can't score and our Core 4 needs as much support as you can possibly buy.


- mjones242

The improvement from Justin Holl doesn't start with Justin Holl. He's too insignificant in terms of salary and role, but our cap being so close to the ceiling means that he is an important piece.

To me, if I make a bunch of moves - like trade Kerfoot, sign Riley (or some other smart and reliable 3C), get Hyman cheap or a replacement cheap, and get our 1B goalie for $2.5m - $3m - then an improvement I'd truly investigate is Hamilton. If you can wrangle him in the $7.5 - $8 range, then you trade Rielly. Holl is still critical in that type of plan because of his cheap hit. You're improving the defense by improving the defense.

If not Hamilton because that is a stretch, I wonder if Suter is a realistic target - he should be cheap since he's already making a lot of money from the Wild. The point is that in my mind Holl isn't the guy we need to move to improve our defensive style. It's Rielly.

He's running out of places that can offer him much more and actually be a good team next year.

Most are going to be around $7.5 million is my guess. If that's the mark, I think the Canes will match.
- BINGO!

Vegas moved mountains last year to add Petro.

I could see a team doing something similar for Hamilton. Lots to happen with expansion being over and the draft coming up on Friday.

At this point, I'm looking for Dubas to really wow me with what he does this offseason. Yes, I understand that in theory, we lost hallander and a 7th. But I still don't get how they know for sure Holl would be the pick or why they couldn't replace Holl with Dermott. We had the opportunity of keeping McCann and flipping kerfoot once his bonus is paid for assets that could be used later or for the team right now.
- matt1337

Agreed..

Once the trade for McCann was made, they should have gone 7-3-1 and left Holl or Dermott as the options for Seattle.

If they selected Holl, then you look to move Kerfoot for a Holl replacement

And get the same results?

Holl is underpaid and works.

Money goes to adding to the forwards and a goalie.
- Santo_44

He's not underpaid.

And what are you doing with Freddy's 5 million?
- bobbyisno1

I noted that we would seek to replace him with a $2.5m option. That $2.5m goes towards Hyman or the Hyman role which you're trying to corral for around $4 - $4.5m.

Vegas moved mountains last year to add Petro.

I could see a team doing something similar for Hamilton. Lots to happen with expansion being over and the draft coming up on Friday.
- Leafs43

It's possible. That was quite the thing.

I’m a (frank)ing pacifist you stupid piece of poop.
- Canada Cup

I meant with pillows.

Vegas moved mountains last year to add Petro.

I could see a team doing something similar for Hamilton. Lots to happen with expansion being over and the draft coming up on Friday.
- Leafs43

Would he go back to the Calgary?

Seattle taking Giordano opens up more cap space for the Flames

No its gotta be either 2m or 10m.
- Fakepartofme

I saw those options, I selected none of the above.

I can't wrap my mind around why an extra 1.5 or 2 to the top 4 D is that crazy of an ask.

Had they protected McCann and kerfoot, you instantly have 600k plus whatever you save trading Kerfoot. You have an extra 600k from the Simmonds deal. Add in Holls 2, you're at 3.2 before you add in the savings from trading Kerfoot.

That's before you touch Andersen + Hyman's departing 7.2 million in space.

People are acting like there's only 2 options. Holl + fill the forward slots + goalie, or better defenceman + nothing. That isn't the case. 🤦🏻‍♂️

Agreed..

Once the trade for McCann was made, they should have gone 7-3-1 and left Holl or Dermott as the options for Seattle.

If they selected Holl, then you look to move Kerfoot for a Holl replacement
- PatC80

And you would have gained 6.1 million cap space for a Holl replacement.

The improvement from Justin Holl doesn't start with Justin Holl. He's too insignificant in terms of salary and role, but our cap being so close to the ceiling means that he is an important piece.

To me, if I make a bunch of moves - like trade Kerfoot, sign Riley (or some other smart and reliable 3C), get Hyman cheap or a replacement cheap, and get our 1B goalie for $2.5m - $3m - then an improvement I'd truly investigate is Hamilton. If you can wrangle him in the $7.5 - $8 range, then you trade Rielly. Holl is still critical in that type of plan because of his cheap hit. You're improving the defense by improving the defense.

If not Hamilton because that is a stretch, I wonder if Suter is a realistic target - he should be cheap since he's already making a lot of money from the Wild. The point is that in my mind Holl isn't the guy we need to move to improve our defensive style. It's Rielly.
- Monkeypunk

I think we're going to continue spinning in circles on this topic.. To me, McCann's flexibility would be more valuable to the Leafs than Holl is.

He's not underpaid.
- Fakepartofme

According to his results he is.

Cheapest player to play over 20 mins a night.

And produces over 50% xgf%.

He is underpaid.

No - we must keep Justin Holl because he's 2M and he played on the 2nd pair and didn't embarrass himself.

Why spend any more money on this amazing d-corps? We need forwards because this team can't score and our Core 4 needs as much support as you can possibly buy.


- mjones242

The defence outplayed the forwards throughout the season and certainly in the playoffs, yes.

It’s tougher to talk about the 2nd line with JT out, but the top line absolutely needs to play differently. I thought there was consensus on this to the point that most want Marner out. That’s not happening and Hyman needs to be replaced so having some cap flexibility seems like a good thing.

That’s the priority, along with guys for the 3rd line and a backup that seems more pressing than fixing the second pairing.

According to his results he is.

Cheapest player to play over 20 mins a night.

And produces over 50% xgf%.

He is underpaid.
- Santo_44

Especially after you figure in the taxes.

And you would have gained 6.1 million cap space for a Holl replacement.
- bobbyisno1

exactly.

I do not understand the fascination with Holl. He's easily replaceable.

I meant with pillows.
- The Law

MyPillow pillows?

The defence outplayed the forwards throughout the season and certainly in the playoffs, yes.

It’s tougher to talk about the 2nd line with JT out, but the top line absolutely needs to play differently. I thought there was consensus on this to the point that most want Marner out. That’s not happening and Hyman needs to be replaced so having some cap flexibility seems like a good thing.

That’s the priority, along with guys for the 3rd line and a backup that seems more pressing than fixing the second pairing.
- Canada Cup

I disagree, trade Rielly lose Holl, boom 7 Milly to go towards Hamilton.

exactly.

I do not understand the fascination with Holl. He's easily replaceable.
- BINGO!

Everybody is replaceable for a price