I disagree, trade Rielly lose Holl, boom 7 Milly to go towards Hamilton.
- bobbyisno1

He plays two spots?

I disagree, trade Rielly lose Holl, boom 7 Milly to go towards Hamilton.
- bobbyisno1

Im in for this. You have Dermott making top 6 money and Sandin ready to step in, that's one defenceman to spare regardless.

Everybody is replaceable for a price
- Canada Cup

I mean yes, but sometimes that's a lot easier said than done.

Agreed..

Once the trade for McCann was made, they should have gone 7-3-1 and left Holl or Dermott as the options for Seattle.

If they selected Holl, then you look to move Kerfoot for a Holl replacement
- PatC80

Seeing so many people talk about how we should have left Holl exposed, and how it would be so easy to replace him in free agency or trades...

Easier said than done. Holl is a known commodity, and signed for $2M for the next TWO seasons. That's the type of cost-controlled contracts we need to value.

Truth is, absolutely none of us know what the market is like for top 4 RHD's in trades. We all just saw Adam Larsson sign for $4M with Seattle. Is Larsson really an upgrade over Holl?

Holl is valuable to this team. Just you all wait to see what free agent D sign for this month. Just you all wait to see what kind of return Seattle and other teams get in the market for trading D.

Dubas has done well, and I guarantee he has some juicy moves up his sleeve. Protecting Holl was the right move.

I think we're going to continue spinning in circles on this topic.. To me, McCann's flexibility would be more valuable to the Leafs than Holl is.
- PatC80

For a moment ignore Holl.

McCann has the same flexibility that Kerfoot has. McCann is a bit better. He is not significantly better, but he's younger and he saved $600k on the cap. The reason McCann was a viable option was that he filled the same role that Kerfoot has. He is the protection for whatever offseason plan (assuming there is one) that the management team has.

Now bring Holl back into the picture and you can say McCann's flexibility doesn't affect Holl just like Kerfoot didn't. Losing McCann's value after acquiring him is a blip over losing Kerfoot.

I say this and I temper it by saying that I wanted to keep McCann. I don't like Holl that much, and I dislike Kerfoot. But the reality is that when I separate the components of these moves out, McCann isn't that much better than Kerfoot to justify the hysteria and hyperbole we've seen, and Holl's caphit in his role makes him valuable because he gives us financial flexibility everywhere else.

Sara Civian reporting no side deals with CAR for Seattle to take Geekie instead of Niederreiter or Bean.

Just Francis being Francis.

Show me 2M d men that played 20+ mins and produced at a 50%+ GF% rate. Or at least close to it.

I don't see any players they could have replaced him with unless you want to pay 3.5M and why would we do that?
- Santo_44

We can't. Because we are in cap hell, filling out our roster with a bunch of plugs.

Was Morgan Geekie one of the Usual Suspects?

He plays two spots?
- Canada Cup

Sandin, Lilliput, Marincin, i mean c'mon they still made it to the seventh game with Marincin.

Seeing so many people talk about how we should have left Holl exposed, and how it would be so easy to replace him in free agency or trades...

Easier said than done. Holl is a known commodity, and signed for $2M for the next TWO seasons. That's the type of cost-controlled contracts we need to value.

Truth is, absolutely none of us know what the market is like for top 4 RHD's in trades. We all just saw Adam Larsson sign for $4M with Seattle. Is Larsson really an upgrade over Holl?

Holl is valuable to this team. Just you all wait to see what free agent D sign for this month. Just you all wait to see what kind of return Seattle and other teams get in the market for trading D.

Dubas has done well, and I guarantee he has some juicy moves up his sleeve. Protecting Holl was the right move.
- buddzy

We'll have to agree to disagree..

If the plan all along was to protect Holl and use the 4-4-1 option, why even make the trade for McCann?

Just lose Kerfoot or Dermott and move on. It was a bad move by Dubas..

If the Kraken took Kerfoot, you free up 3.5M in cap space

For a moment ignore Holl.

McCann has the same flexibility that Kerfoot has. McCann is a bit better. He is not significantly better, but he's younger and he saved $600k on the cap. The reason McCann was a viable option was that he filled the same role that Kerfoot has. He is the protection for whatever offseason plan (assuming there is one) that the management team has.


Now bring Holl back into the picture and you can say McCann's flexibility doesn't affect Holl just like Kerfoot didn't. Losing McCann's value after acquiring him is a blip over losing Kerfoot.

I say this and I temper it by saying that I wanted to keep McCann. I don't like Holl that much, and I dislike Kerfoot. But the reality is that when I separate the components of these moves out, McCann isn't that much better than Kerfoot to justify the hysteria and hyperbole we've seen, and Holl's caphit in his role makes him valuable because he gives us financial flexibility everywhere else.
- Monkeypunk

This is basically it, neither scenario is worth getting upset over.

They chose Holl and kept Kerfoot...sweet.

Now let’s see what they do with Kerfoot. Holl will be a Leaf.

Sara Civian reporting no side deals with CAR for Seattle to take Geekie instead of Niederreiter or Bean.

Just Francis being Francis.
- BINGO!

(frank)in who?!?

We'll have to agree to disagree..

If the plan all along was to protect Holl and use the 4-4-1 option, why even make the trade for McCann?

Just lose Kerfoot or Dermott and move on. It was a bad move by Dubas..

If the Kraken took Kerfoot, you free up 3.5M in cap space
- PatC80

I understand the point of view of wanting to lose Kerfoot's cap hit. That is still possible. Also - consider the fact that Kerfoot's value rises significantly after the expansion draft takes place.

Once teams settle into what they have, further moves can take place. Retaining Kerfoot makes sense. He has value. Losing the cap hit sounds nice, but I guarantee you the Leafs brass understands which chess pieces to move and at which time.

Losing Holl puts ANOTHER hole in our roster, which is NOT easily replaced, especially for 2 million dollars for another two years.

Cap space is at a premium right now. And a top 4 D who plays well with Muzzin at 2 million dollars is more valuable than losing Kerfoot's 3.5M - which can still be moved, because Kerfoot has value.

Make sense?

Go leafs go

Cap space is important. I'd love to add another 10M forward but we can't.
- Santo_44

I'd love to get rid of a 10M forward but we can't. Apparently.

And you saying "cap space is important" is ridiculous given your support for the idiotic 4 player/40M cap structure of this team.

exactly.

I do not understand the fascination with Holl. He's easily replaceable.
- BINGO!

Find an RHD that is available that team's are parting with or that is available in free agency that is available for $2m.

Understand that when you're as tight to the cap as the Leafs are that $2.2m could literally be a deal breaker in what they maneuver. This is a team that couldn't have Engvall on the roster for the first 15 days because they didn't have room to fit his $1.2m cap hit and had to wait for the daily accrual to give them space. It's a team so tight to the cap that there are debates about a $1.2m player being highly overpaid.

Here's a head start on guys who _could_ fall into that price range: Pateryn, Vatanen, Carrick, Ceci, Bogosian . . and maybe with pay cuts some guys would make in that range like Gudbranson (I doubt it, he gets paid for being tall), Montour or Demers.

Moving from Holl to one of those guys either makes you worse, or doesn't move the needle much to justify the move when he already works well with Muzzin.

We'll have to agree to disagree..

If the plan all along was to protect Holl and use the 4-4-1 option, why even make the trade for McCann?

Just lose Kerfoot or Dermott and move on. It was a bad move by Dubas..

If the Kraken took Kerfoot, you free up 3.5M in cap space
- PatC80

And who is replacing Kerfoot??

This was a slick move by Dubas. He basically protected the team at a cost of Hollander and a 7th. Really smart Dubas play!!

He's not underpaid.
- Fakepartofme

Thank you.

No idea. Radio silence there. His agent talked to Seattle about him, but nothing came of it unlike Larsson (same agent).

That one is going down to the wire. All about what Dougie wants. Money or Market?
- BINGO!

Seems like the kind of guy who would take a little less for the right market ( I don’t think TO is his type of market - total guess though )

He plays two spots?
- Canada Cup

Double shift the mofo!!

We'll have to agree to disagree..

If the plan all along was to protect Holl and use the 4-4-1 option, why even make the trade for McCann?

Just lose Kerfoot or Dermott and move on. It was a bad move by Dubas..

If the Kraken took Kerfoot, you free up 3.5M in cap space
- PatC80

This is as simple as saying that Kerfoot is worth more than a 7th & Hallander. So you pay a small price now to have more value later. If they trade Kerfoot before the start of the season, he'll fetch more than a 7th & Hallander.

That's it. The move gives you the flexibility to retain your current roster strength while also giving you greater value proposition down the road if you change things as opportunities arise at the draft or in free agency.

(frank)in who?!?
- joel878

Morgan Geekie.

Francis' 3rd round pick in 2017.

Decent hands but he's 23 and was kind of a fourth line bubble guy in Carolina.

Find an RHD that is available that team's are parting with or that is available in free agency that is available for $2m.

Understand that when you're as tight to the cap as the Leafs are that $2.2m could literally be a deal breaker in what they maneuver. This is a team that couldn't have Engvall on the roster for the first 15 days because they didn't have room to fit his $1.2m cap hit and had to wait for the daily accrual to give them space. It's a team so tight to the cap that there are debates about a $1.2m player being highly overpaid.

Here's a head start on guys who _could_ fall into that price range: Pateryn, Vatanen, Carrick, Ceci, Bogosian . . and maybe with pay cuts some guys would make in that range like Gudbranson (I doubt it, he gets paid for being tall), Montour or Demers.

Moving from Holl to one of those guys either makes you worse, or doesn't move the needle much to justify the move when he already works well with Muzzin.
- Monkeypunk

For what you're saying to be accurate it would mean that every cent in cap space, including from the departing Andersen and Hyman is spoken for.

It would also require decisions to have already been made on players already having cap space allocated to them going forward (Kerfoot, Rielly, Dermott, Mikheyev, etc.)

That's just not the case...

Seems like the kind of guy who would take a little less for the right market ( I don’t think TO is his type of market - total guess though )
- Garnie

That's what I'm thinking. He's been allowed to talk to other teams for weeks now. If something had gotten done or was close, I think we would have heard about it by now.

Previously commented yesterday….

McCann to Kraken

Then trade Kerfoot and Dermott
for
Kahkonen and C Miller👍

Seagull said no🤨

This is as simple as saying that Kerfoot is worth more than a 7th & Hallander. So you pay a small price now to have more value later. If they trade Kerfoot before the start of the season, he'll fetch more than a 7th & Hallander.

That's it. The move gives you the flexibility to retain your current roster strength while also giving you greater value proposition down the road if you change things as opportunities arise at the draft or in free agency.
- Monkeypunk

Is "preserving the current roster strength" a good move?

I mean, first round exit after first round exit...