bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: I'm excited to see that Joined: 08.28.2010
|
|
|
For what you're saying to be accurate it would mean that every cent in cap space, including from the departing Andersen and Hyman is spoken for.
It would also require decisions to have already been made on players already having cap space allocated to them going forward (Kerfoot, Rielly, Dermott, Mikheyev, etc.)
That's just not the case... - joel878
I think they have close to 8 million in space, move out Kerfoot and it would have been 11.
I don't see the panic and I don't see the need to keep most of these perennial fist round losers. |
|
buddzy
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Joined: 03.03.2017
|
|
|
This is as simple as saying that Kerfoot is worth more than a 7th & Hallander. So you pay a small price now to have more value later. If they trade Kerfoot before the start of the season, he'll fetch more than a 7th & Hallander.
That's it. The move gives you the flexibility to retain your current roster strength while also giving you greater value proposition down the road if you change things as opportunities arise at the draft or in free agency. - Monkeypunk
This.
We all need to come to terms with the fact that Holl, and his contract, are extremely valuable to the Leafs.
There's more forwards available than there are top 4 RHD on a very economical contract.
Kerfoot may stay or go, his role is interchangeable. Holl's is not at this current time. |
|
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
|
|
|
According to his results he is.
Cheapest player to play over 20 mins a night.
And produces over 50% xgf%.
He is underpaid. - Santo_44
Without Muzzin ( 3 years data and over 500 mins ) his actual goals for: 35% and his xgf%: 45%. Which is below replacement level.
I don’t care what we do, but if I was an owner/gm etc I’d build from the net out and not backwards...but that’s just me.
|
|
|
|
For a moment ignore Holl.
McCann has the same flexibility that Kerfoot has. McCann is a bit better. He is not significantly better, but he's younger and he saved $600k on the cap. The reason McCann was a viable option was that he filled the same role that Kerfoot has. He is the protection for whatever offseason plan (assuming there is one) that the management team has.
Now bring Holl back into the picture and you can say McCann's flexibility doesn't affect Holl just like Kerfoot didn't. Losing McCann's value after acquiring him is a blip over losing Kerfoot.
I say this and I temper it by saying that I wanted to keep McCann. I don't like Holl that much, and I dislike Kerfoot. But the reality is that when I separate the components of these moves out, McCann isn't that much better than Kerfoot to justify the hysteria and hyperbole we've seen, and Holl's caphit in his role makes him valuable because he gives us financial flexibility everywhere else. - Monkeypunk
McCann is quite a bit better. Better shot, and better 200 ft. Game |
|
|
|
I think they have close to 8 million in space, move out Kerfoot and it would have been 11.
I don't see the panic and I don't see the need to keep most of these perennial fist round losers. - bobbyisno1
When McCann goes tonight they will be around 9.5
Yeah, I get it's tight and requires some frugal decision making.
But using it as methodology as to why you cannot upgrade something as critical as your second defence pairing seems illogical. |
|
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: I'm excited to see that Joined: 08.28.2010
|
|
|
This.
We all need to come to terms with the fact that Holl, and his contract, are extremely valuable to the Leafs.
There's more forwards available than there are top 4 RHD on a very economical contract.
Kerfoot may stay or go, his role is interchangeable. Holl's is not at this current time. - buddzy
What everybody fails to mention is that Holl is a top 4 D on the Leafs. |
|
buddzy
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Joined: 03.03.2017
|
|
|
Let's all take a look around the league and see what other teams lost....
Significant roster players. High upside prospects. Valuable goalies.
What did the Leafs lose?
HALLANDER AND A 7TH |
|
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
|
|
|
For what you're saying to be accurate it would mean that every cent in cap space, including from the departing Andersen and Hyman is spoken for.
It would also require decisions to have already been made on players already having cap space allocated to them going forward (Kerfoot, Rielly, Dermott, Mikheyev, etc.)
That's just not the case... - joel878
Anyone can be moved, so the cap is obviously fluid. But there is a strategic plan that you have in place and it has to have some basic assumptions. You don't want to take a team that is considered a top-10 cup contender and disassemble it unless you accept that the construction is fatally flawed. We can all argue that later - the management team clearly thinks this is working.
But that's the reality here: Hyman is out @ $2.2m, Anderson is out @ $5m. We'll probably plug other cheap players into the departing Thornton, Bogosian and Galchenyuk roles - whether it's some of those guys or not doesn't matter.
You need to sign a reliable 1B goalie, so you're in for about $2.5 - $3m. So you have $2.5 left from Anderson. This means that you have around $4.7m on Hyman. If he signs for $4.5, you have about $200k. If we walk from Hyman, we have $4.7m to find a suitable top-6 wing replacement . . . let's pretend it's a guy like Hoffman who comes in around $4m. That's still only $700k. If you skimp on the 1B goalie and get him for $2m, that still $1.2m. If you move out Kerfoot for a cheaper option, maybe you save yourself another $1.5m tops. Now we're at $2.7m. If we can get a suitable Holl replacement after all this change for $4.5m, then we're in business. Right _now_ those guys would maybe be guys like Savard or Barrie. Barrie and Muzzin was, for lack of a better word, bad. Savard is better than Holl. Is he that much better that you weaken yourself elsewhere for this minimal improvement?
I'd say no, but I guess we'd see?
|
|
buddzy
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Joined: 03.03.2017
|
|
|
What everybody fails to mention is that Holl is a top 4 D on the Leafs. - bobbyisno1
is this sarcasm? i can't tell |
|
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
|
|
|
What everybody fails to mention is that Holl is a top 4 D on the Leafs. - bobbyisno1
He wouldn't even be on the ice in Tampa.
We are so not close. |
|
buddzy
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Joined: 03.03.2017
|
|
|
He wouldn't even be on the ice in Tampa.
We are so not close. - fifty__missions
It's so easy to compare rosters around the league to Tampa Bay's. Fact is, not every team can assemble such a perfect roster as Tampa has done the last two years. Keep in mind they got swept not too long ago before winning a couple cups.
It takes time to develop chemistry and build out your roster.
Tampa Bay was also 18 million dollars over the cap come playoff time. Doubt that ever happens again.
Holl is a good player, let's keep him at 2mil for two more seasons. Remember when he completely stone walled McDavid & co for a full three games?
Good times are ahead boys. |
|
Leafs43
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Location: ON Joined: 06.16.2010
|
|
|
Seattle really seems to be making some weird decisions.
I'm interested to see what the trades look like.
|
|
Monkeypunk
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Whenever, wherever, ON Joined: 06.27.2013
|
|
|
He wouldn't even be on the ice in Tampa.
We are so not close. - fifty__missions
Come on. He'd be a 5/6 guy on Tampa. A team that is $12m over the cap despite having the advantage of negotiating in a US market with no taxes.
His $2m hit would be a boon to them as well, because they can't keep operating on their stars all season every year! |
|
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: I'm excited to see that Joined: 08.28.2010
|
|
|
is this sarcasm? i can't tell - buddzy
It's not sarcasm, on any other contender he would not be top 4.
Until the Leafs figure this out it'll first round exit after first round exit.
Like I said earlier, even with Marincin they made it to the deciding game. |
|
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Joined: 10.20.2014
|
|
|
Without Muzzin ( 3 years data and over 500 mins ) his actual goals for: 35% and his xgf%: 45%. Which is below replacement level.
I don’t care what we do, but if I was an owner/gm etc I’d build from the net out and not backwards...but that’s just me. - Garnie
He has a CF% of 49.83% without Muzzin the last 2 years |
|
|
|
Anyone can be moved, so the cap is obviously fluid. But there is a strategic plan that you have in place and it has to have some basic assumptions. You don't want to take a team that is considered a top-10 cup contender and disassemble it unless you accept that the construction is fatally flawed. We can all argue that later - the management team clearly thinks this is working.
But that's the reality here: Hyman is out @ $2.2m, Anderson is out @ $5m. We'll probably plug other cheap players into the departing Thornton, Bogosian and Galchenyuk roles - whether it's some of those guys or not doesn't matter.
You need to sign a reliable 1B goalie, so you're in for about $2.5 - $3m. So you have $2.5 left from Anderson. This means that you have around $4.7m on Hyman. If he signs for $4.5, you have about $200k. If we walk from Hyman, we have $4.7m to find a suitable top-6 wing replacement . . . let's pretend it's a guy like Hoffman who comes in around $4m. That's still only $700k. If you skimp on the 1B goalie and get him for $2m, that still $1.2m. If you move out Kerfoot for a cheaper option, maybe you save yourself another $1.5m tops. Now we're at $2.7m. If we can get a suitable Holl replacement after all this change for $4.5m, then we're in business. Right _now_ those guys would maybe be guys like Savard or Barrie. Barrie and Muzzin was, for lack of a better word, bad. Savard is better than Holl. Is he that much better that you weaken yourself elsewhere for this minimal improvement?
I'd say no, but I guess we'd see? - Monkeypunk
Nothings for sure and everyone is going to have their own version.
If it were me, I am making more cap space. I'm doing it by peddling Kerfoot for a player + pick and replacing him with Engvall, I'm moving Rielly and Holl out and shooting for Hamilton.
Im looking at the idea I think we can replace what Mikheyev brings for damn near league minimum (possibly even Robertson).
I don't think 2.5-3 million for a backup goalie is going to be necessary.
Robertson + Bunting to fill a spot on the cheap, a quality winger...
To each their own. 🤷🏻♂️ |
|
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
|
|
|
Come on. He'd be a 5/6 guy on Tampa. A team that is $12m over the cap despite having the advantage of negotiating in a US market with no taxes.
His $2m hit would be a boon to them as well, because they can't keep operating on their stars all season every year! - Monkeypunk
He would not have been in Tampa's top six. |
|
Garnie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Location: ON Joined: 11.30.2009
|
|
|
It's not sarcasm, on any other contender he would not be top 4.
Until the Leafs figure this out it'll first round exit after first round exit.
Like I said earlier, even with Marincin they made it to the deciding game. - bobbyisno1
So, you’re saying Marincin still has a chance eh?
|
|
Atomic Wedgie
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: The centre of the hockey universe Joined: 07.31.2006
|
|
|
Let's all take a look around the league and see what other teams lost....
Significant roster players. High upside prospects. Valuable goalies.
What did the Leafs lose?
HALLANDER AND A 7TH - buddzy
This.
This.
Oh my God, this.
|
|
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Joined: 10.20.2014
|
|
|
He would not have been in Tampa's top six. - fifty__missions
Yes because Holls results dont matter because of Muzzin but Rutta's matter regardless of Hedman
Sure |
|
Santo_44
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
Joined: 10.20.2014
|
|
|
This.
This.
Oh my God, this. - Atomic Wedgie
But I need to be angry about the Leafs |
|
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
|
|
|
Nothings for sure and everyone is going to have their own version.
If it were me, I am making more cap space. I'm doing it by peddling Kerfoot for a player + pick and replacing him with Engvall, I'm moving Rielly and Holl out and shooting for Hamilton.
Im looking at the idea I think we can replace what Mikheyev brings for damn near league minimum (possibly even Robertson).
I don't think 2.5-3 million for a backup goalie is going to be necessary.
Robertson + Bunting to fill a spot on the cheap, a quality winger...
To each their own. 🤷🏻♂️ - joel878
Lol. Jack Campbell, who has a career high of 22 starts, and some plug backup. Might as well get Ayers.
Good luck with that goaltending. |
|
underhill14
|
|
|
Location: I think I'll just sit back stage until somebody that matters calls me out.-King of HB Systemtool Joined: 06.02.2010
|
|
|
So let me get this straight...
Pens were going to lose McCann.
Dubas gave them Hallander and a 7th. Logic: they might take Kerfoot.
Kerfoot = McCann give or take a tiny bit of $ and talent either way.
Kraken take McCann.
Pens get Hallander and a 7th.
Kraken basically took Hallander and a 7th from the Leafs, nothing off of the roster for the expansion draft.
Besides the fact that our roster can't make it passed the first round and is obviously fu3ked money wise to balance it out...all of it was a complete nothing burger.
I'm no fan of Dubas, but it was a slick move and worked.
Now get the fu3k to work Dubas, fix this piece of shiit, pu$$y ass team and find some muthafu3king players with fire in their belly. Oh wait, can't no $$$.
3 wingers
1 top 4 RHD
1 b/u G
No cap, no picks, light on the prospects. We're fu3ked. |
|
bobbyisno1
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: I'm excited to see that Joined: 08.28.2010
|
|
|
This.
This.
Oh my God, this. - Atomic Wedgie
He's wrong though, they lost McCann. |
|
fifty__missions
Toronto Maple Leafs |
|
|
Location: Burkie's Rented Barn, ON Joined: 02.12.2013
|
|
|
Yes because Holls results dont matter because of Muzzin but Rutta's matter regardless of Hedman
Sure - Santo_44
I never said that about Holl. Get your poop together. |
|