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Forums :: Blog World :: Theo Fox: Instant Pudding
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Theo Fox
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 06.18.2016

Jul 27 @ 3:13 AM ET
Theo Fox: Instant Pudding A perspective on what the rise up the rankings for NHL prospect systems means for the Blackhawks.

Is there more than just Lukas Reichel, Frank Nazar, Wyatt Kaiser, Kevin Korchinski, Drew Commesso, and Arvid Soderblom?
SC116
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 08.29.2015

Jul 27 @ 3:28 AM ET
Do o really vault into the middle third without anyone having played an additional game yet?

I don't know really that that is an actual evaluation, as it seems more like a hope than a result.
vabeachbear
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Ft Courage - out in the middle of Indian Country, NC
Joined: 10.17.2011

Jul 27 @ 7:35 AM ET
I know I'll get roasted probably, but I'd get what I could for Toews and tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass.

The next day, I'd announce the statue of Kaner that's going outside the stadium.

7 years ago, I'd never have thought Kane would have ended up the more likeable one of the two.

Angotti
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 07.03.2019

Jul 27 @ 8:10 AM ET

Today @ 7:35 AM ET
I know I'll get roasted probably, but I'd get what I could for Toews and tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass.

The next day, I'd announce the statue of Kaner that's going outside the stadium.

7 years ago, I'd never have thought Kane would have ended up the more likeable one of the two.
- vabeachbear

Get roasted for forming an opinion? Not here. While I tend to agree with you, the man is ultra competitive and doesn’t have the mindset to play on a cellar dweller. I believe that we will see a much improved Toews this year, which will raise his value for TDL. I do disagree on your statement in regards to the statue, the man led the team to the best era in Blackhawks history, his statue along with Kane’s will be erected one day.
6628
Joined: 08.24.2009

Jul 27 @ 8:20 AM ET
the man is ultra competitive and doesn’t have the mindset to play on a cellar dweller.


Another example is Chris Chelios. His career would have been way shorter if he wasn't traded to a winning team.
jrsamu
Season Ticket Holder
Joined: 11.07.2014

Jul 27 @ 8:36 AM ET
#19 is not error or gaffe-proof, but he deserves and has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO. He feels, like Kane, that he has gas left in the tank. The best thing for both was not having a playoff run in 2021.

He didn't say anything to the Athletic that he hasn't said to KD. Sure, his health has been a factor in the team's decline, but far from the main reason. The front office has been a goat festival since 2015.

And if KD is truly going to jettison all of Stan's guys because they are Stan's guys, that is mistake #1 under his leadership.
BetweenTheDots
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: IL
Joined: 06.13.2015

Jul 27 @ 8:37 AM ET
https://twitter.com/Patri...H-_xMN3JyoK0GjQt8dcA&s=01

Hahaha
35Tony0
Season Ticket Holder
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Springfield, IL
Joined: 05.10.2015

Jul 27 @ 8:49 AM ET
#19 is not error or gaffe-proof, but he deserves and has earned the benefit of the doubt IMO. He feels, like Kane, that he has gas left in the tank. The best thing for both was not having a playoff run in 2021.

He didn't say anything to the Athletic that he hasn't said to KD. Sure, his health has been a factor in the team's decline, but far from the main reason. The front office has been a goat festival since 2015.

And if KD is truly going to jettison all of Stan's guys because they are Stan's guys, that is mistake #1 under his leadership.

- jrsamu

I do not see KD sending off Stan's guys just because they are Stan's guys. I see KD working with the tools he has to restock and rebuild the pipeline. (Wirtz buying the IceHogs indicates Wirtz has this mindset as well).
It would be great if Toews disagreement about the strategy is that he feels it will NOT take 5 years. Unfortunately, it's an if I see no evidence of from Toews. But I DO see it from Kane. More unfortunate, I'm not convinced the return on a Toews trade includes a 1st Rounder.
Assman22
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: San Francisco, CA
Joined: 04.13.2012

Jul 27 @ 9:03 AM ET
I know I'll get roasted probably, but I'd get what I could for Toews and tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass.

The next day, I'd announce the statue of Kaner that's going outside the stadium.

7 years ago, I'd never have thought Kane would have ended up the more likeable one of the two.

- vabeachbear

Same. Bye Toews.
Ztra
Joined: 06.21.2018

Jul 27 @ 9:14 AM ET
I have no problem with what Toews said. He spoke honestly about where he was at. He was a warrior for years. He had huge physical issues the last two+ years. Now in his mind he is close to 100% healthy again and that he can play a few more years. He does not want to lose 50 games a year for the rest of his career.
I say “right on” Captain Serious. Play your ass off at the start of the season. Put up some decent stats. Tell KD you will accept a trade to a contender. Let the Hawks recoup a future piece for you at the TDL.
Good luck and I wish you every success with your next team.
If I am Luke Richardson I play him with Kane and Domi or T. Johnson and hope they start the season healthy and put up points. Then KD moves them all at the TDL. One good line for 2/3rds of a season won’t prevent the Hawks from losing. The tank would still be on and the picks, prospects, and cap room they get can only assist their rebuild.
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 27 @ 9:15 AM ET
I think Toews can't stand the thought that if both he and Kane stay, that he will be offered no more than half (if that) of what Kane would get, in term and in dollars.

He could become the next Corey Perry, Joe Thornton, etc. playing for the minimum (because of cap space, and how much would a 3rd/4th line center make?) playing on a contender.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Jul 27 @ 9:16 AM ET
I know I'll get roasted probably, but I'd get what I could for Toews and tell him not to let the door hit him in the ass.

The next day, I'd announce the statue of Kaner that's going outside the stadium.

7 years ago, I'd never have thought Kane would have ended up the more likeable one of the two.

- vabeachbear


I'd be willing to move him to where he wants to go but I don't know that it has to be good or bad that he's leaving.

Kind of sucks to be on winning teams your whole life an then not, and then really not but on purpose.

That being said - if he is moving around like he was last year I dunno how much value he brings to a contender. If he's reasonably healthy he could probably help out Calgary and I'm sure Daryl would like to have him.

I don't think he has the wheels to play in Colorado but if they don't resign Kadri maybe that could be a mid season move.

He wasn't ever as red assed as Keith but can't really blame him for not wanting to spend the twilight of his career on a team that is losing on purpose.
paulr
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: YYZ
Joined: 06.26.2011

Jul 27 @ 9:44 AM ET
I think Toews can't stand the thought that if both he and Kane stay, that he will be offered no more than half (if that) of what Kane would get, in term and in dollars.

He could become the next Corey Perry, Joe Thornton, etc. playing for the minimum (because of cap space, and how much would a 3rd/4th line center make?) playing on a contender.

- LAHawk

You could be right but I get the sense Toews’ has interests beyond hockey. I can’t see him desperately hanging on especially with his diminishing talent. Wouldn’t surprise me if he puts the blades away after this season unless he plays better than he has the past few years.
Ztra
Joined: 06.21.2018

Jul 27 @ 9:44 AM ET
Kakko is RFA. 21 y/o. What kind of offer sheet is he worth. Up to about $2 mil you only give up a 3rd. Up to about $4 mil you only give up a 2nd. Worth the risk?
I am thinking $2 to $3 mil on a short term deal might be worth giving up a 2nd.
Of course same could be said for Kirby Dach. lol.
fattybeef
Joined: 05.04.2010

Jul 27 @ 9:59 AM ET
Do o really vault into the middle third without anyone having played an additional game yet?

I don't know really that that is an actual evaluation, as it seems more like a hope than a result.

- SC116


I think the difference is projectable talent.

A guy like Barret, for example, was something like tenacious, good motor, nice hands, will need to improve skating. It seems like the biggest thing holding him back is that his feet aren't fast enough for the NHL.

Just about all of the players that they have taken this year have been labeled as very good to outstanding skaters and not just straight line speed but also on their edges which is just as important.

There's different philosophies on how you manage talent (at any level quite frankly). Do you pick athletes and try to teach them the game or do you pick not the most athletic and hope they improve enough physically and are in fact heady enough to get past their physical limitations?

At some point there should probably be a bit of a mix but at this stage - going for the guys who have a very good base from an athletic stand point I think is a good pivot and will ultimately be the fastest way for them to get competitive again. They can get cute trying to draft the next Tavares or whatever when they have a comfortable base.

Its consistent so at least whatever plan the group has they're trying to execute it which is something to be excited about in its own right. If it works out that's awesome if not then it'll be a dumpster fire and those can be just as entertaining.
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Jul 27 @ 10:06 AM ET
Re: Toews

I think we all know that he and Kane were what started the ball rolling upfront to become a team that could score and win and the I have ultimate respect for both and all the other players who won for us.

I think the management rewards both with generous deals and made sure that $ were equal to avoid any possible issues between them.

I think if I polled the fans, they would agree that Kane earned it.

I also know that the unforeseen circumstances Johnny had with head trauma, immune deficiency and never lost the public support by the team.
And the fans so wanted the aging centre to be able to return with a vengeance.

If I polled all of you, wouldn't you say, he really didn't get back to any sort of NHL abilities until the snippets we saw at the end of the season.

We cannot be the only who evaluated these performances as I described.
(He knows it, RIGHT?)

It is not like his comments today were ones we all have the same opinions of, that KD is getting rid of players he and Kaner were used to playing with, leading, aiding, etc.
No big disclosure, eh?

But, did his TSN interview address ANYTHING, except I DON'T KNOW?
Toews: "I'm learning to be more patient, but there's no doubt that timeline is pretty daunting, and pretty exhausting to think about. So, I'm not going to sit here and say what I'm going to do or what the future holds for me, because I really don't know."

I think the management was also patient with a big earner not at the performance levels expected. This happens on all rosters as player get long in the tooth.

But, I hope he KNOWS soon.

Knows he wants to stay or wants to go.

And knows the possible tarde partners probably want to see what left in his tank before trading even any draft pock for him.

I hope he has decided and simply shuts up after he decides his own fate.

We will not think less of him.

Just don't poop near where you eat,b/c I certainly haven't had the opportunity to make a salary anywhere near his, so give us all respect, good feelings and no negativity in the press.
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Jul 27 @ 10:07 AM ET
Kakko is RFA. 21 y/o. What kind of offer sheet is he worth. Up to about $2 mil you only give up a 3rd. Up to about $4 mil you only give up a 2nd. Worth the risk?
I am thinking $2 to $3 mil on a short term deal might be worth giving up a 2nd.
Of course same could be said for Kirby Dach. lol.

- Ztra


Yeah, no risk until the rangers go on a downline and sign a young Blackhawk player when he is a RFA...

The way Kakko plays is as a valuable big strong quick handed player who is going to score inside the home plate area, not beat you with a 'cat like outside snipe.

He needs time, but I think he isn't a bust yet, as that he understands the wing well.
DarthKane
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: 5.13.4.9
Joined: 02.23.2012

Jul 27 @ 10:07 AM ET
Kakko is RFA. 21 y/o. What kind of offer sheet is he worth. Up to about $2 mil you only give up a 3rd. Up to about $4 mil you only give up a 2nd. Worth the risk?
I am thinking $2 to $3 mil on a short term deal might be worth giving up a 2nd.
Of course same could be said for Kirby Dach. lol.

- Ztra


Nothing that would cost a 1st round pick.
TrueGrit
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: FL
Joined: 07.19.2011

Jul 27 @ 10:08 AM ET
the man is ultra competitive and doesn’t have the mindset to play on a cellar dweller.


Another example is Chris Chelios. His career would have been way shorter if he wasn't traded to a winning team.

- 6628


Not directed at you...just stream of consciousness on the topic.

I know you are not implying this, but did I miss some sort of coronation? Toews is now entitled to what???

Toews rocking the Obama doctrine, railing against system, as if he was not a huge part of it.

If the guy wants to play it out this year and retire, no shame in that. That is his right. If he then wants to sign elsewhere, again, no shame in that. But if he is adopting the NBA mentality of running for the path of least resistance is discouraging.

Or he can man up and do some soul searching and figure out how to be a leader in tough times. Look at Crosby and Pens...how they stayed relevant for so long. They tore down and rebuilt 3 times.

Where is the grit and determination?

#makeyourselfalegend19
Hawkeynation
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.29.2020

Jul 27 @ 10:11 AM ET
Toews wants out, send him out. Simple as that. He isn't even relevant now let alone by the time any of our present and future draft picks start panning out. The man's a Chicago legend, but let's not pretend like keeping him here (especially with his attitude) is better for him or for the team.

PS Not saying I blame him
Hawkeynation
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 05.29.2020

Jul 27 @ 10:14 AM ET
Not directed at you...just stream of consciousness on the topic.

I know you are not implying this, but did I miss some sort of coronation? Toews is now entitled to what???

Toews rocking the Obama doctrine, railing against system, as if he was not a huge part of it.

If the guy wants to play it out this year and retire, no shame in that. That is his right. If he then wants to sign elsewhere, again, no shame in that. But if he is adopting the NBA mentality of running for the path of least resistance is discouraging.

Or he can man up and do some soul searching and figure out how to be a leader in tough times. Look at Crosby and Pens...how they stayed relevant for so long. They tore down and rebuilt 3 times.

Where is the grit and determination?

#makeyourselfalegend19

- TrueGrit


If you are using Penguins as an example it should be noted that they have never missed the playoff during that time and have never done anything but retool
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Jul 27 @ 10:17 AM ET


Toews rocking the Obama doctrine, railing against system, as if he was not a huge part of it.]

- TrueGrit


I guess I really do not understand this type comment, not while the candidates YOU voted for Ron DeathSantis (U cannot say gay in school, student/teacher or office employee), who refused to close our bars and business, inoculated the white gated communities before "public" (me) and the other liar who railed against the system with his followers, killing police and security over a lie.

It is a hockey site and you just purposefully were looking for a political reaction.

I am sorry to say I have to give you one...

(BTW who never ran for office before running for office)

A friend of mine a Republican statistic professor says the last decades show people are more willing to vote for an unknown/untested politician than same old same old...the proof of that was in the results in past elections.

I love ya' but.
Hockey, ok?
LAHawk
Chicago Blackhawks
Joined: 11.02.2017

Jul 27 @ 10:22 AM ET
If you are using Penguins as an example it should be noted that they have never missed the playoff during that time and have never done anything but retool
- Hawkeynation


How about Kopitar and Doughty? They bought into the rebuild, and were rewarded handsomely for it.
Popsghostly
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: Wheaton, IL
Joined: 08.11.2017

Jul 27 @ 10:35 AM ET
How about Kopitar and Doughty? They bought into the rebuild, and were rewarded handsomely for it.
- LAHawk


Agree LA but they bought into the rebuild in their late 20's/earlier 30's. Tazer is 34 now and a 5-year rebuild would put him at 39, which probably means his career would be over. He's a true competitor and I'm sure he wants to get that playoffs rush again where games mean something.

Shows the failed moves of last summer were partly trying to keep Tazer happy.
wiz1901
Chicago Blackhawks
Location: DraftSite com, IL
Joined: 05.14.2008

Jul 27 @ 10:40 AM ET
When women are within a few weeks of delivery, they are constantly asked, :when are you ue?'

I am sure the same happens to Jonathan about each and every trade, season,game, and wellness fro the fans and the press.
That ten million is su[posedto help cushion that, but I understand the guy has to say something.
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