No kidding....a (frank)ing sabers fan at that...
- southernhawk

Never trust anyone that says IMHO, regardless of who they cheer for.

Never trust anyone that says IMHO, regardless of who they cheer for.
- InvisibleOrange

oh well...there goes blackhawk24 & moylanders credibility

oh well...there goes blackhawk24 & moylanders credibility
- southernhawk

also never trust anyone that makes blanket statements

That last statement couldn't be further from the truth. There is a lot to be critical of with the front office. However, Im just a realist and not someone who constantly changes their views based on the last trade or signing made. I think you completely missed the point of that post on HF boards though. It had nothing to do with the team or the front office. The entire post referred to the back and forth/wishy washy views of the fan base. That is what I was referring to. Nothing at all with the front office.

As soon as someone makes a comment that isn't overly negative about the front office though you're quick to call them a Bowman apologist and the like. Is it possible that you're overly critical and sometimes can't see the forest through the trees bc of it?

You made the point about the trades in the 2010 offseason coming up craps. This is exactly what the HF poster meant and what I meant when I said even you go back and forth. What he did that offseason was pretty magical. No one thought he would ever get as many high picks and prospects coming back since he was trading from a place of no leverage. I was in ny a few months after and talked to Jeff Gorton who was the Bruins interim gm and now Sathers assistant and he said the same thing. He and the gms he talked to was shocked at what Bowman was able to pull from those deals.
You yourself talked about how great Bowman did that offseason getting what he did. Now it came up craps?

You can say well those prospects didn't pan out. They didn't really get a shot either. You need an opportunity and it's practically impossible for prospects to get that opportunity on a cup contender. Bottom line is Bowman was praised so highly for what he got in those trades and now a cpl years later he's the worst Gm in the world and has never done a single thing well.
Exactly what that post talked about and he couldn't be more accurate.
- Bhawks35

Does the shoe fit? Methinks thou protesteth too much.

Companies and brands DO employ that practice.

Does the shoe fit? Methinks thou protesteth too much.

Companies and brands DO employ that practice.
- John Jaeckel

And 'journalists' make names for themselves by being sensationalists. And sports writers DO make up trade rumors. Just sayin' - spotting an honest poster could be as hard as finding an honest sports blogger these days.

Does the shoe fit? Methinks thou protesteth too much.

Companies and brands DO employ that practice.
- John Jaeckel

I say one thing that goes against you about one offseason in the 4 year reign of bowman and you take this attitude?

And again you missed the boat. We were talking about the pulse of the fan base. Nothing more.

I say one thing that goes against you about one offseason in the 4 year reign of bowman and you take this attitude?

And again you missed the boat. We were talking about the pulse of the fan base. Nothing more.
- Bhawks35

Oh, good - another fight - this beats good hockey stuff by a mile....

Oh, good - another fight - this beats good hockey stuff by a mile....
- StLBravesFan

Oh, good - another fight - this beats good hockey stuff by a mile....
- StLBravesFan

I think you're looking at the wrong person in this "fight"

I'm not a big Reinsdorf fan, but Trader Kenny also has an owner who wants to win and let's his GM get things done.
- StLBravesFan

Just curious why specifically you don't care for Jerry. I realize you know this, but outside the 85 Bears and 10 Hawks, Jerry is the only owner that's won in this town (please don't mention the Wolves).

Trader Kenny drives me nutz...I've wanted him fired since the 2007 White Sox fiasco...

...although I do admit he's keeping this years WSox club in contention with some shrewd moves. Getting Kevin Youkilis for nothing, and the RSox are paying most of his salary, was ridiculous.

Where's EK with the cool aid when you need him....

JJ, I know Al said that the Hawks have no room for Butler, but I could see him on one of the top 2 lines, or possibly making Stalberg trade bait. Have you heard if the Hawks have any interest in him?

Where's EK with the cool aid when you need him....
- southernhawk

You mean this?




Sorry, been hitting the books HARD this weekend. Finals for Summer semester are this week.

BTW, I loved the "hater-aid" comment.

Just curious why specifically you don't care for Jerry. I realize you know this, but outside the 85 Bears and 10 Hawks, Jerry is the only owner that's won in this town (please don't mention the Wolves).

Trader Kenny drives me nutz...I've wanted him fired since the 2007 White Sox fiasco...

...although I do admit he's keeping this years WSox club in contention with some shrewd moves. Getting Kevin Youkilis for nothing, and the RSox are paying most of his salary, was ridiculous.
- ArlingtonRob

(a) a major factor in canceling the '95 World Series - the most vehement of the owners

(b) never seemed to recognize his luck in getting Jordan, the main factor in the 6 championships. He and Krauss had the luxury of building a decent team around Jordan.

(c) kept Krauss around long after he had proven his incompetence at building a team without Jordan - and during the Jordan years, did very little to smooth out the relationships between Krauss, Jackson, Jordan and Pippen (which I blame as much on the latter 3 as I do on Krauss).

(d) even though continuing to draw the highest attendance in the league between Jordan and Rose, has so far refused to go into salary tax territory to improve the team: don't disagree with that stance this year and probably next year (both lost years, IMO), I'm waiting to see what he does when they next have the opportunity to win (probably 2014-2015).

On the othe hand, I give him credit for things like continuing to pay Jordan his basketball salary while Jordan was screwing around with Birmingham, and giving Williams the freedom (and money) to make the changes needed to win in 2005, and maybe now.

Just curious why specifically you don't care for Jerry. I realize you know this, but outside the 85 Bears and 10 Hawks, Jerry is the only owner that's won in this town (please don't mention the Wolves).

Trader Kenny drives me nutz...I've wanted him fired since the 2007 White Sox fiasco...

...although I do admit he's keeping this years WSox club in contention with some shrewd moves. Getting Kevin Youkilis for nothing, and the RSox are paying most of his salary, was ridiculous.
- ArlingtonRob

At least he tries - his moves may fail, but the give the team a chance.

Without his moves, would the Sox have been in a better position to win?

And 'journalists' make names for themselves by being sensationalists. And sports writers DO make up trade rumors. Just sayin' - spotting an honest poster could be as hard as finding an honest sports blogger these days.
- nathanjf

Nothing being made up here. Passing along what I hear and presenting it as such. If you don't like it, as they say . . . free country.

I read somewhere Nashville wants to get a PP QB and is offering a lot of forwards including colin wilson. I know you said Leddy may be on the block. Match made in heaven JJ?

I say one thing that goes against you about one offseason in the 4 year reign of bowman and you take this attitude?

And again you missed the boat. We were talking about the pulse of the fan base. Nothing more.
- Bhawks35

No, you said more than one thing, and yeah, I take this attitude. Show up with something other than the company line, taking things out of context, once in a while, etc., and we'll have a much more positive discourse.

But while we're on the subject of being unfair with Bowman, even if I conceded the point that he can be excused for this summer, what has he DONE constructively that has you so firmly in his corner as a good GM? Some over-hyped (at this point) draft picks? What else?

Two first rounds and out.

I read somewhere Nashville wants to get a PP QB and is offering a lot of forwards including colin wilson. I know you said Leddy may be on the block. Match made in heaven JJ?
- ikeane

I would be shocked if they brought in another PP Qb. They have Weber locked up for a year at least and Josi, Ellis and Blum coming up. They are pretty set with D talent even with the loss of Suter.

(a) a major factor in canceling the '95 World Series - the most vehement of the owners

(b) never seemed to recognize his luck in getting Jordan, the main factor in the 6 championships. He and Krauss had the luxury of building a decent team around Jordan.

(c) kept Krauss around long after he had proven his incompetence at building a team without Jordan - and during the Jordan years, did very little to smooth out the relationships between Krauss, Jackson, Jordan and Pippen (which I blame as much on the latter 3 as I do on Krauss).

(d) even though continuing to draw the highest attendance in the league between Jordan and Rose, has so far refused to go into salary tax territory to improve the team: don't disagree with that stance this year and probably next year (both lost years, IMO), I'm waiting to see what he does when they next have the opportunity to win (probably 2014-2015).

On the othe hand, I give him credit for things like continuing to pay Jordan his basketball salary while Jordan was screwing around with Birmingham, and giving Williams the freedom (and money) to make the changes needed to win in 2005, and maybe now.
- StLBravesFan

Thanks...

One things certain, you're more of a hoops fan than I am...I'm fair weather at best. What do you mean, "recognize his luck" in getting Jordan. He bought into the Bulls in 85, so Jordan was 1 year into his pro career. At that point I'm not sure anyone realized the true greatness that was to follow.

I have also never been convinced that the 95 baseball season cancellation was promoted by Reinsdorf. Sure, Jerry and the other owners remained firm against Don Fehr and the players, but that wasn't a surprise. One owner cannot be responsible for the decisions of the whole group. Reinsdorf was no guru. If you know something I don't pass it on, but all I've heard is speculation and innuendo. There was plenty of blame to go around, and I personally point my finger at the players who haven't given back one iota...evah.

One thing is certain, and it applies to all pro sports, escalating salaries have priced me out of attending games with any regularity. My cable bill is my admission fee.

No, you said more than one thing, and yeah, I take this attitude. Show up with something other than the company line, taking things out of context, once in a while, etc., and we'll have a much more positive discourse.

But while we're on the subject of being unfair with Bowman, even if I conceded the point that he can be excused for this summer, what has he DONE constructively that has you so firmly in his corner as a good GM? Some over-hyped (at this point) draft picks? What else?

Two first rounds and out.
- John Jaeckel

JJ, you must have completely mixed up the posts. When I said "that last statement couldnt be further from the truth" I was talking about you saying I couldn't handle any criticism towards the front office. I think you thought I was referring to your post about companies having interns monitoring the sites/blogs. After you said that you then went on to say companies do employ that practice. So, I think youre mixing up the points here.

I never commented on that practice nor did I ever say a single thing good or bad about the front office EXCEPT what Bowman did in the 2010 offseason. You have no idea what I think of the front office outside of the 2010 offseason. Maybe before attacking and criticizing you should reread the posts.

This is all a moot point anyway. You'll take another stance if we acquire Doan or have a 3 game winning streak to start the season.

At least he tries - his moves may fail, but the give the team a chance.

Without his moves, would the Sox have been in a better position to win?
- StLBravesFan

I guess it's pure speculation when examining the moves he's made since 2005...
(talk about falling into good luck, that year was amazing for all that went right)...
and I'll admit he's not afraid to stick his neck out there when he see opportunity.

For me, I think it's philosophical in that I can't stand having such a thin minor league system. KW seems to rely on rehabilitating stuggling vets and high draft picks that have failed to meet expectations.

I know the WSox are investing more in scouting and development, so perhaps things will change for the better.

One thing is certain...I want the WSox to keep Youkilis for several years and if Jerry and KW let him walk I will be disappointed.

Thanks...

One things certain, you're more of a hoops fan than I am...I'm fair weather at best. What do you mean, "recognize his luck" in getting Jordan. He bought into the Bulls in 85, so Jordan was 1 year into his pro career. At that point I'm not sure anyone realized the true greatness that was to follow.

I have also never been convinced that the 95 baseball season cancellation was promoted by Reinsdorf. Sure, Jerry and the other owners remained firm against Don Fehr and the players, but that wasn't a surprise. One owner cannot be responsible for the decisions of the whole group. Reinsdorf was no guru. If you know something I don't pass it on, but all I've heard is speculation and innuendo. There was plenty of blame to go around, and I personally point my finger at the players who haven't given back one iota...evah.

One thing is certain, and it applies to all pro sports, escalating salaries have priced me out of attending games with any regularity. My cable bill is my admission fee.
- ArlingtonRob

With Jordan, he - and Krauss - lucked into having him already there - by '85 Jordan's greatness was well known.

Salaries not responsible for ticket prices - demand (and limited supply) and the dreaded marketing, especially to corporations, are the culprits. Do you thing that if the owners get their 22% rollback that they will reduce ticket prices? NBA had a $300MM transfer of revenues from players to owners after last year's lock-out: don't recall prices being reduced.

Blackhawk prices wil go down (in the form of discounts and freebies) when fans stop the sell-outs and waiting lists.

I guess it's pure speculation when examining the moves he's made since 2005...
(talk about falling into good luck, that year was amazing for all that went right)...
and I'll admit he's not afraid to stick his neck out there when he see opportunity.

For me, I think it's philosophical in that I can't stand having such a thin minor league system. KW seems to rely on rehabilitating stuggling vets and high draft picks that have failed to meet expectations.

I know the WSox are investing more in scouting and development, so perhaps things will change for the better.

One thing is certain...I want the WSox to keep Youkilis for several years and if Jerry and KW let him walk I will be disappointed.
- ArlingtonRob

Which, as a Cub fan, makes me thankful for Epstein and his philosophy's- and for Ricketts allowing him to tear it all down and re-do it. but he knows he'll still get 35,000 + most of the time and they can ride out the storm.

Don't know that the Sox can afford to do that for two or three years (or one ) without the bottom falling out of the attendance (and revenue) core.

Bhawk really, ?
What he did that offseason was pretty magical.

Right


Take your tongue outta Stan's ass. dogs do that, your not a dog are ya?