Got that right on type-2...And the way we went about screwing over the sugar industry was also bad business.

It's good for cattle and chicken feed. Besides I like a good serving of corn on the cob now and then. Especially with a lot of small farms not too far from me.

My gripe about the fuel side is ethanol is horrible investment as the technology stands today. Not enough BTUh for too many $$$ to process AND livestock feed is being burned to boot.
- blackhawk24

Actually it's really bad for cattle feed. Horribly bad.

Also, it's kind of a chicken/egg thing, but I think you have the HFCS thing backwards too. We don't overproduce corn in order to make HFCS, we have so much HFCS because there nothing else to do with the excess of corn being produced.

Sure sure....don't try to act like you don't know what it is! I'm sure you've read all the books!


- DarthKane

Hey - I resemble that remark!!

Havent read anything like that since Fear of Flying.

....large grizzly, but still bears. I thnk there are way more issues with harming the public with smaller Black bears than Grizzly's.
- Al

Al, you shoulld go on a hockey scouting trip to Timmins, Ontario. When it gets warm in the summer the black bears come into town from the woods and you can run into one walking down the main street in town. And they will sift thru your garbage cans at the end of the driveway.

Al, you shoulld go on a hockey scouting trip to Timmins, Ontario. When it gets warm in the summer the black bears come into town from the woods and you can run into one walking down the main street in town. And they will sift thru your garbage cans at the end of the driveway.
- RickJ

And you can discover the next Steve Sullivan

Actually it's really bad for cattle feed. Horribly bad.

Also, it's kind of a chicken/egg thing, but I think you have the HFCS thing backwards too. We don't overproduce corn in order to make HFCS, we have so much HFCS because there nothing else to do with the excess of corn being produced.
- Ogilthorpe2

That and production quotas on the sugar industry.

I'm in a huff about burning potential cattle feed for fuel when said burning for fuel is so inefficient and ineffective. Again, only from the pure scientific perspective. Ethanol production - from the way that's being done today - needs a LOT of refinement (no pun) in the process to make it cost effective. It takes $1.35 of resources to produce $1.00 of ethanol from corn. Nice P&L, eh?

Got that right on type-2...And the way we went about screwing over the sugar industry was also bad business.

It's good for cattle and chicken feed. Besides I like a good serving of corn on the cob now and then. Especially with a lot of small farms not too far from me.

My gripe about the fuel side is ethanol is horrible investment as the technology stands today. Not enough BTUh for too many $$$ to process AND livestock feed is being burned to boot.
- blackhawk24

Corn/grain combination isn't really in the "natural diet" spectrum for beef (or fish). Kind of depends on your views on antibiotic and hormone fed fatty cows or allegedly leaner cleaner free range ones. Haven't seen a conclusive document promoting one over the other so whatever floats your boat there I guess.

E85 is pretty meh. I had some fleet vehicles in a previous life that ran E85. The gas mileage was brutal and performance seemed substandard. Especially considering not much $.$$ benefit. Also taking into account the cost of energy to manufacture the stuff it just seems kind of silly. The whole summer / winter blend nonsense seems kinda bogus to me but I am far from an expert on that crap.

Is this dude from Phoenix gonna sign a piece of paper or what

That and production quotas on the sugar industry.

I'm in a huff about burning potential cattle feed for fuel when said burning for fuel is so inefficient and ineffective. Again, only from the pure scientific perspective. Ethanol production - from the way that's being done today - needs a LOT of refinement (no pun) in the process to make it cost effective. It takes $1.35 of resources to produce $1.00 of ethanol from corn. Nice P&L, eh?
- blackhawk24

Unless its subsidized at $0.45/gallon so they make 10 points either way...

Corn/grain combination isn't really in the "natural diet" spectrum for beef (or fish). Kind of depends on your views on antibiotic and hormone fed fatty cows or allegedly leaner cleaner free range ones. Haven't seen a conclusive document promoting one over the other so whatever floats your boat there I guess.

E85 is pretty meh. I had some fleet vehicles in a previous life that ran E85. The gas mileage was brutal and performance seemed substandard. Especially considering not much $.$$ benefit. Also taking into account the cost of energy to manufacture the stuff it just seems kind of silly. The whole summer / winter blend nonsense seems kinda bogus to me but I am far from an expert on that crap.

Is this dude from Phoenix gonna sign a piece of paper or what
- fattybeef

I sure don't know the details about livestock and chicken feed. But then again if that changes, does that mean my Corned Beef Sammich at Katz's Deli in NYC won't taste the same??

On your E85, the amount of energy out of one unit of that fuel is about 20% less than standard 87-Octane gasoline. That will show up in both your giddy-up and mileage. I don't personally have any "flex fuel" vehicles simply because of the BS purported to the public about it.

What I bolded above is where the innovators can change - if given the chance - in the future. But like JJ and others said, there are forces out there far greater than "just the science" behind the technology.

EDIT: Not that I take anything Ek writes for real but he did put up a blog this morning about Doan's situation potentially getting not too good for AZ since the Jameson group still needs another $20M to get to the NHL's asking price of $170 for the 'yotes.

Unless its subsidized at $0.45/gallon so they make 10 points either way...
- fattybeef

Which is what makes guys like me go bat$hit crazy. Subsidies...!!!

Yeah, Venezuelans pay something like $.30 / gallon for gas. How's everything else down there going?

Advancing the technology, letting market forces drive the technology will make things happen so much more effectively and efficiently.

Corn/grain combination isn't really in the "natural diet" spectrum for beef (or fish). Kind of depends on your views on antibiotic and hormone fed fatty cows or allegedly leaner cleaner free range ones. Haven't seen a conclusive document promoting one over the other so whatever floats your boat there I guess.

E85 is pretty meh. I had some fleet vehicles in a previous life that ran E85. The gas mileage was brutal and performance seemed substandard. Especially considering not much $.$$ benefit. Also taking into account the cost of energy to manufacture the stuff it just seems kind of silly. The whole summer / winter blend nonsense seems kinda bogus to me but I am far from an expert on that crap.

Is this dude from Phoenix gonna sign a piece of paper or what
- fattybeef

The winter ethanol adding pisses me off to no end, as well as the "oxygenation" for less emissions. Of course it produces less emissions, because it gets a less gas mileage since I'm going 220 miles a tank rather than 280.

FUN FACT: E85 is 15% gas so people don't steal it and drink it. 100% corn ethanol is edible and drunk juice.

And you can discover the next Steve Sullivan
- John Jaeckel

Quite a few boys made it to the NHL from Timmins/South Porcupine - Bill Barilko, Dale Rolfe, Bob Nevin, Don Lever, Steve Sullivan etc. And Shania Twain too.

The nickel and gold mines are just humming up there these days.

Kalets signs a three year deal 1.25 m per. #wasahawkstarget


NOT!!!!

We clearly need a topic to talk about here. I don't think Ethanol, hunting, or Baseball are it. So, I have an open question:

If the hawks could trade for anybody (within cap reason)... who would you take and why? Top of my head, I like Getzlaf. He's a big center and could fill the 2C and power forward role. I think a change of scenery would be good for him.

Corn/grain combination isn't really in the "natural diet" spectrum for beef (or fish). Kind of depends on your views on antibiotic and hormone fed fatty cows or allegedly leaner cleaner free range ones. Haven't seen a conclusive document promoting one over the other so whatever floats your boat there I guess.

E85 is pretty meh. I had some fleet vehicles in a previous life that ran E85. The gas mileage was brutal and performance seemed substandard. Especially considering not much $.$$ benefit. Also taking into account the cost of energy to manufacture the stuff it just seems kind of silly. The whole summer / winter blend nonsense seems kinda bogus to me but I am far from an expert on that crap.

Is this dude from Phoenix gonna sign a piece of paper or what
- fattybeef

Nothing alleged about it. It's fact. Grass fed, free range beef is healthier for the cows, healthier for the people who eat the cows, and much better environmentally. If you put any credence in the saying "you are what you eat"...then it should follow naturally that you also are what the animals you consume eat.

I sure don't know the details about livestock and chicken feed. But then again if that changes, does that mean my Corned Beef Sammich at Katz's Deli in NYC won't taste the same??

On your E85, the amount of energy out of one unit of that fuel is about 20% less than standard 87-Octane gasoline. That will show up in both your giddy-up and mileage. I don't personally have any "flex fuel" vehicles simply because of the BS purported to the public about it.

What I bolded above is where the innovators can change - if given the chance - in the future. But like JJ and others said, there are forces out there far greater than "just the science" behind the technology.

EDIT: Not that I take anything Ek writes for real but he did put up a blog this morning about Doan's situation potentially getting not too good for AZ since the Jameson group still needs another $20M to get to the NHL's asking price of $170 for the 'yotes.
- blackhawk24

The term Corned is modified from an Old Germanic (P.Gmc) Word Kurnam which meant small seed of anything. Since a kernel of rock salt look like a wheat or oat kernel size it became known as a corn of salt.
Even the word Kernel comes from this word Kurnam. or Kurnilo which meant the root of the seed. The reason why it's called corned beef is because of the way the meat is preserved. The beef is put into a pot and covered with large kernels of rock-salt, which is "corns of salt", hence the name corned beef.

We clearly need a topic to talk about here. I don't think Ethanol, hunting, or Baseball are it. So, I have an open question:

If the hawks could trade for anybody (within cap reason)... who would you take and why? Top of my head, I like Getzlaf. He's a big center and could fill the 2C and power forward role. I think a change of scenery would be good for him.
- JRoenick97

Lucic. Big nasty top 6 PF.

We clearly need a topic to talk about here. I don't think Ethanol, hunting, or Baseball are it. So, I have an open question:

If the hawks could trade for anybody (within cap reason)... who would you take and why? Top of my head, I like Getzlaf. He's a big center and could fill the 2C and power forward role. I think a change of scenery would be good for him.
- JRoenick97

Roberto Luongo?

The term Corned is modified from an Old Germanic (P.Gmc) Word Kurnam which meant small seed of anything. Since a kernel of rock salt look like a wheat or oat kernel size it became known as a corn of salt.
Even the word Kernel comes from this word Kurnam. or Kurnilo which meant the root of the seed. The reason why it's called corned beef is because of the way the meat is preserved. The beef is put into a pot and covered with large kernels of rock-salt, which is "corns of salt", hence the name corned beef.
- Ogilthorpe2

What about the potato latke?

Nothing alleged about it. It's fact. Grass fed, free range beef is healthier for the cows, healthier for the people who eat the cows, and much better environmentally. If you put any credence in the saying "you are what you eat"...then it should follow naturally that you also are what the animals you consume eat.
- Ogilthorpe2

Better yet, don't consume them. The methane gas they produce is worse than auto emissions and a major contributor to global warming, if you believe that as fact.

We clearly need a topic to talk about here. I don't think Ethanol, hunting, or Baseball are it. So, I have an open question:

If the hawks could trade for anybody (within cap reason)... who would you take and why? Top of my head, I like Getzlaf. He's a big center and could fill the 2C and power forward role. I think a change of scenery would be good for him.
- JRoenick97

Oh the same who is tougher superman or spiderman question we have beaten to death here for 2 months? Try again. How bout, what will it take to get team canada under the cap and in an Indianhead sweater?

Oh the same who is tougher superman or spiderman question we have beaten to death here for 2 months? Try again. How bout, what will it take to get team canada under the cap and in an Indianhead sweater?
- TrueGrit

Sorry man, I'm obviously new here. I wasn't getting super interested in the methanol/baseball topics.

Better yet, don't consume them. The methane gas they produce is worse than auto emissions and a major contributor to global warming, if you believe that as fact.
- djd

Global warming is where we draw the line. While it is always fun to exhibit hubris and assume that after all the years the earth has spinned, that right now...exactly right now is where we should define some sort of homeostasis, where we have identified the optimum temperature, and we are able to identify and manipulate cause and effect to achieve perfect environmental outcome? That asinine assumption is what you sign up for and claim, when you hold up the global warming banner.

The fact is this...3 things occur on earth growth, change and decay. Everything is evolving along this spectrum. The one constant is change. The environment is always changing. Our weather men are surprised everyday when a rain storm pops up from nowhere, or they can not figure out where clouds will form, but they can say with certainty that driving my SUV will cause catastrophic damage. Global warming is a whack religion subscribed to by self righteous know it all's whose ultimate goal is regulating your behavior.

Sorry man, I'm obviously new here. I wasn't getting super interested in the methanol/baseball topics.
- JRoenick97

You are good man, I am the crazy uncle looking for a fight. Every now and again I howl at the moon. Would love Getzlaff, but you would have to give up equivalent value...so likely a wash.

Better yet, don't consume them. The methane gas they produce is worse than auto emissions and a major contributor to global warming, if you believe that as fact.
- djd

Feed them grass (as they are meant to) instead of corn and they produce less methane...plus you don't burn all the gas required to plant, cultivate, fertilize, harvest, and deliver the corn feed. Grass fed dairy cows also produce healthier milk, and more of it on average.

Global warming is where we draw the line. While it is always fun to exhibit hubris and assume that after all the years the earth has spinned, that right now...exactly right now is where we should define some sort of homeostasis, where we have identified the optimum temperature, and we are able to identify and manipulate cause and effect to achieve perfect environmental outcome? That asinine assumption is what you sign up for and claim, when you hold up the global warming banner.

The fact is this...3 things occur on earth growth, change and decay. Everything is evolving along this spectrum. The one constant is change. The environment is always changing. Our weather men are surprised everyday when a rain storm pops up from nowhere, or they can not figure out where clouds will form, but they can say with certainty that driving my SUV will cause catastrophic damage. Global warming is a whack religion subscribed to by self righteous know it all's whose ultimate goal is regulating your behavior.
- TrueGrit

Since I believe that man-made (including your SUV, and my car) global warming is an issue, consider this from a self righteous know-it-all who only wants to control your behavior:

Your argument based entirely on denigrating your opponent, without any logic or facts to back it up, will convince no one about your beliefs or your ability to understand the issue.

The only whack religion is that practiced by the owners of Chic Fil A, In And Out burgers, and any other organization run by "self righteous know it all's whose ultimate goal is regulating (my) behavior".