i hope the exact opposite of this
- aightwebang17

lolz

You were dead on before you started conflating puck moving with offensive output.

Common usage of the term by hockey writers and scouts refers to any dman who can transition the puck with a high degree of success. 99% of the league's blueliners are capable of making an outlet pass, but as you said, puck movers are the guys who can be counted on to do it w/ aplomb and regularity.

Offensive production is not a requirement for being a puck mover -- driving the play up the ice is.


- Tomahawk

We have a different defiiniton of, and standard for calling a player a puck moving defenseman. No reason to debate it further. Not really the point I was making.

I would agree.

Timonen, Pronger, Coburn, Gus and Gervais are also examples.

MAB, Lilja, Schenn and Grossmann are currently too limited by their decision making and/or puck skills to qualify as puckmovers, although Schenn and MAB have the potential to be decent puck movers.


- Tomahawk

Your confusing how good of a puck mover a player is, versus classifying a player.

If you understood Hjalmarsson's game, you wouldn't be so quick to dismiss him. He's no Carle with the puck, nor does he replace Meszaros' point shot, but as far as driving the play up the ice and putting the puck in the hands of guys who are better suited to making the plays that lead to scoring chances, he's a good candidate. Just watch the Blackhawks breakout and transition up the ice while Hjalmarsson's on the ice... then tell me he's only a suitable replacement for Grossmann.
- Tomahawk

If you understood the team's true needs, you wouldn't have questioned Joe's post. I understand Hjalmarsson's game just fine. And you need to go back and re-read what I said. I didn't say he was a suitable replacement for Grossmann. I said he is an upgrade over Grossmann.

The bottom line is that the Flyers have a need for a true puck moving offensive defenseman. That can provide offense from the backend, play on the PP. And help offset the loss of Carle and Meszaros. That is the point that Joe was making, and he is right in my opinion.

If you understood the team's true needs, you wouldn't have questioned Joe's post. I understand Hjalmarsson's game just fine. And you need to go back and re-read what I said. I didn't say he was a suitable replacement for Grossmann. I said he is an upgrade over Grossmann.
- MJL

Hjalmarsson is pretty much a poor-man's Bouwmeester, so if you feel that J.Bo fits the Flyers' needs, you'd understand why the other poster offered Hjalmarsson as a better value option.

As for all the definition business, it's a common mistake among fans, nobody will hold it against you.

Hjalmarsson is pretty much a poor-man's Bouwmeester, so if you feel that J.Bo fits the Flyers' needs, you'd understand why the other poster offered Hjalmarsson as a better value option.

As for all the definition business, it's a common mistake among fans, nobody will hold it against you.
- Tomahawk

No he's not. Hjalmarrsson doesn't play on the PP, and doesn't put up many points. Not understanding the needs of a team, and what type of defenseman a team needs, is a common mistake among the fans.

Like I said previously, if your looking for an upgrade over Grossmann, or one of the kids. Then he's a good choice. If your looking for a replacement over what you lost with Carle and Meszaros. Which even further amplifies what you lost with Pronger. Then he's not the right choice. It comes down to exactly what Joe spoke about. The mix of players.

No he's not. Hjalmarrsson doesn't play on the PP, and doesn't put up many points. Not understanding the needs of a team, and what type of defenseman a team needs, is a common mistake among the fans.

Like I said previously, if your looking for an upgrade over Grossmann, or one of the kids. Then he's a good choice. If your looking for a replacement over what you lost with Carle and Meszaros. Which even further amplifies what you lost with Pronger. Then he's not the right choice. It comes down to exactly what Joe spoke about. The mix of players.
- MJL

Why do you always gotta start arguments. It's old.

Why do you always gotta start arguments. It's old.
- Richieattack18

Why do you participate in an open on-line forum if the only opinion you care about is your own.

In reference to some posts earlier on the thread. If you recognize yourself, or even suspect you may have contributed to such behavior, consider this a warning.

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory... messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

No he's not. Hjalmarrsson doesn't play on the PP, and doesn't put up many points. Not understanding the needs of a team, and what type of defenseman a team needs, is a common mistake among the fans.
- MJL

IMO, the Flyers just need blueliners who can get the puck into the hands of the forwards. They've shown in recent years that they can be near the top of the league in goals-for despite having only pretty average contributions from their defense.

As for the PP, they'll continue to use forwards at the point, so it's just a matter of replacing Carle's PP minutes -- a task that could fall to Coburn or Gus or another forward.

I'm fine with them just adding another puck-mover, like Colaiacovo or Hjalmarsson or doing nothing at all. What I don't think they'll be able to do is find a bonafide offensive threat from the blueline at a reasonable cost, and that includes options like Gonchar, Yandle, etc. Bouwmeester, on the other hand, doesn't fill the latter need, but will cost even more.

IMO, the Flyers just need blueliners who can get the puck into the hands of the forwards. They've shown in recent years that they can be near the top of the league in goals-for despite having only pretty average contributions from their defense.

As for the PP, they'll continue to use forwards at the point, so it's just a matter of replacing Carle's PP minutes -- a task that could fall to Coburn or Gus or another forward.

I'm fine with them just adding another puck-mover, like Colaiacovo or Hjalmarsson or doing nothing at all. What I don't think they'll be able to do is find a bonafide offensive threat from the blueline at a reasonable cost, and that includes options like Gonchar, Yandle, etc. Bouwmeester, on the other hand, doesn't fill the latter need, but will cost even more.
- Tomahawk

I agree. I understand what your saying. I'm just to lazy to type it all out from an IPhone. Ha. In the end I'll support whatever the Flyers do bc I root for them.

In reference to some posts earlier on the thread. If you recognize yourself, or even suspect you may have contributed to such behavior, consider this a warning.

"A troll is someone who posts inflammatory... messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."
- bodiva88

"He saves children, but not the British children..."

nice avatar.

Any hockey on today from the hlinka cup? if so, anyone have a link? Thanks.

"He saves children, but not the British children..."

nice avatar.
- KGBflyers10

Thank you. Courtesy crims.

They gonna want a top six forward and a first.
He'd fit great on the Flyers no question.
- Marc D

That's the problem he is very expensive.

Still saying best thing for Flyers is a lockout until December. Less time played without injured players, plus less wear on Kimmo so he would be better in playoffs.

IMO best not to trade away any key young guys for a replacement d-men. I like these 3 young guys. My concern with MAB is the 3 concussions he's had in past two years. If the team can pick up a veteran d-men on the cheap do it, if not roll with the young guns.

did we get a dman yet?

Again for those interested in watching game 4 and the final game of the Canada/Russia Challenge here you go:

http://www.sportlemon.tv/c-3.html (only in Russian)

http://www.thefirstrow.eu...tch-russia-vs-canada.html (in English)

Imo i don't see a trade happening without the flyers overpaying. Every gm in the league knows about their injuries on the d front already. Why would they cut homer a deal? Its their job to get the best possible deal for their team. I dont see how homer can trade for someone without giving up a forward and/or picks. That being said I've bren weong before and if homer wants to make a trade, i have faith he won't get worked over.

Personally I'd rather see him sign cc for cheap. Sure he's injury prone, but who isnt on this d. It won't rush the kids and would give an extra vet on the blueline.

Just my two cents. And i fully expect several of you to disagree

Imo i don't see a trade happening without the flyers overpaying. Every gm in the league knows about their injuries on the d front already. Why would they cut homer a deal? Its their job to get the best possible deal for their team. I dont see how homer can trade for someone without giving up a forward and/or picks. That being said I've bren weong before and if homer wants to make a trade, i have faith he won't get worked over.

Personally I'd rather see him sign cc for cheap. Sure he's injury prone, but who isnt on this d. It won't rush the kids and would give an extra vet on the blueline.

Just my two cents. And i fully expect several of you to disagree
- fecondo

The Flyers don't have anyone to trade--forward wise--that they could make without hurting their depth, and considering how strung out they are on defense--suddenly, their offensive depth is their most important weapon. Unlike a large population of the Flyers fanbase, I have faith in Bryzgalov and think he will improve tremendously. He received a raw deal here from the fans and his D--face it, loss of Pronger, and the bringing in of the new kids.

Team will definitely need that offensive firepower.

The Flyers don't have anyone to trade--forward wise--that they could make without hurting their depth, and considering how strung out they are on defense--suddenly, their offensive depth is their most important weapon. Unlike a large population of the Flyers fanbase, I have faith in Bryzgalov and think he will improve tremendously. He received a raw deal here from the fans and his D--face it, loss of Pronger, and the bringing in of the new kids.

Team will definitely need that offensive firepower.
- KGBflyers10

I have faith in Bryz as well. We didn't have mezzy for the latter part of the season and he put upmuch better numbers until the broken foot. I think the kids will be fine on d. I hope homer stands pat and lets it ride until we see how they perform.

IMO, the Flyers just need blueliners who can get the puck into the hands of the forwards. They've shown in recent years that they can be near the top of the league in goals-for despite having only pretty average contributions from their defense.

As for the PP, they'll continue to use forwards at the point, so it's just a matter of replacing Carle's PP minutes -- a task that could fall to Coburn or Gus or another forward.

I'm fine with them just adding another puck-mover, like Colaiacovo or Hjalmarsson or doing nothing at all. What I don't think they'll be able to do is find a bonafide offensive threat from the blueline at a reasonable cost, and that includes options like Gonchar, Yandle, etc. Bouwmeester, on the other hand, doesn't fill the latter need, but will cost even more.
- Tomahawk

Agreed. If we can improve the team, without subtraction, I'm for it.

The Flyers don't have anyone to trade--forward wise--that they could make without hurting their depth, and considering how strung out they are on defense--suddenly, their offensive depth is their most important weapon. Unlike a large population of the Flyers fanbase, I have faith in Bryzgalov and think he will improve tremendously. He received a raw deal here from the fans and his D--face it, loss of Pronger, and the bringing in of the new kids.

Team will definitely need that offensive firepower.
- KGBflyers10

I must say: I AGREE

Bad goal given up by Subban

didn't take long for Canada to tie it.

Again for those interested in watching game 4 and the final game of the Canada/Russia Challenge here you go:

http://www.sportlemon.tv/c-3.html (only in Russian)

http://www.thefirstrow.eu...tch-russia-vs-canada.html (in English)
- ob18

It seems to be stuck on a loop of first period highlights.
Is it in between periods at this moment?

IMO, the Flyers just need blueliners who can get the puck into the hands of the forwards. They've shown in recent years that they can be near the top of the league in goals-for despite having only pretty average contributions from their defense.

As for the PP, they'll continue to use forwards at the point, so it's just a matter of replacing Carle's PP minutes -- a task that could fall to Coburn or Gus or another forward.

I'm fine with them just adding another puck-mover, like Colaiacovo or Hjalmarsson or doing nothing at all. What I don't think they'll be able to do is find a bonafide offensive threat from the blueline at a reasonable cost, and that includes options like Gonchar, Yandle, etc. Bouwmeester, on the other hand, doesn't fill the latter need, but will cost even more.
- Tomahawk

It was pretty clear when they added a player like Pronger with his ability to move the puck, provide offense, and provide a big shot from the point, that the Flyers became a much better team. Not to the same extent obviously, but Carle added some of the same elements. Especially at Even Strength. Carle has been one of the better defenseman in ES scoring in the League. I feel that element will be missing from the Flyers. Further compounded by the loss of Meszaros for however long he is out.
So while I think the Flyers can get by with what they have, or by adding a player such as Colaiacovo. I think at some point they need to add a true offensive defenseman at least, and preferably a #1 type in the future. If they are to ascend to a Championship team.
I agree that the cost will be high.
There are only so many forwards that are capable of playing on the point on the PP. Other players such as Coburn are going to get more offensive responsibilities. We'll see how they do.