Hey I started out in the players corner like most. But the tide has drastically turned on them for good reason. They are out of touch.

Cloutier has a poll on who's side people are on.

NHLPA getting a solid 10%
- robin_steele264

Toronto Sun, last I checked 96% felt the PA was out of touch.

Could be Shawinigan, Mem Cup to worst team in the CHL
- AdamFrench

Happens a lot in sports I find..win a championship then not make playoffs the following season

Happens a lot in sports I find..win a championship then not make playoffs the following season
- JIMI-JAMES

not really. But it does in junior hockey. The turnaround time is very quick, because one player can make a huge difference, and their lifespan is just a few years.

Happens a lot in sports I find..win a championship then not make playoffs the following season
- JIMI-JAMES

Chelsea won the UEFA cup and lost out now

its funny how that is also a pretty good list of some of the most mentally challenged people that post here too.
- prock

It is a special list.

Blame Bettman and his dumbass legion of owners who created a system, said it would work perfectly and then abused their own rules. But poor owners, they need to create a system every eight years so they can save poor Phoenix and Florida and every other sad sack franchise they dropped in idiotic locations
- Unholy_Goalie

One ranting paragraph of yours, let's list the problems shall we:

1) The PA also agreed to the last deal. The owners did not make it alone. The owners also made concessions, which is understandable considering the players took a rollback and the league got a cap system. Pretending the owners made the last deal all alone and this is the exact deal they wanted is, at best, revisionist history and at worst, idiocy.

2) Please provide a source for "working perfectly". While your at it, in order to actually make a solid argument, with an actual point, please provide a source where they said "perfectly" and "forever".

3) Create a system every 8 years? Are you aware that most business undergo more serious transformation within that time frame, not just a reduction of expenses.

4) Some of the franchises losing money are not in "sad sack" locations. Also, where are the willing and able owners in better locations? Maybe you want to see contraction instead? Yeah, let's lose PA jobs. That will help

Nope.

Most disagree.

You are in a group of diehard player sympathizers.

You.
Scooby
Burn
MJL
Tuna
Lahey
Beatle_John


The diehard NHLPA love boys.
- robin_steele264

How could you forget Joel878!? and the latest addition to the Mickey Mouse club, MadCap.

That is an EXTRA special list.

It is a special list.
- robin_steele264

we need gretzky and dopps to join their team.

not really. But it does in junior hockey. The turnaround time is very quick, because one player can make a huge difference, and their lifespan is just a few years.
- prock

I should change my point to championship finalist
From 1993 to 2006, seven Stanley Cup finalists failed to make the subsequent playoffs.

http://www.canada.com/top...834f-7c08867b1b02&k=21912

I would think baseball even more due to less playoff teams

Chelsea won the UEFA cup and lost out now
- AdamFrench

Fire the coach.

Fire the coach.
- Scooby_Doo

Each November baby!

Nope.

Most disagree.

You are in a group of diehard player sympathizers.

You.
Scooby
Burn
MJL
Tuna
Lahey
Beatle_John


The diehard NHLPA love boys.
- robin_steele264

Wrong. People who are owner sympathizers are, for the most part, being illogical and are just pissy that there is no hockey so they're blaming the players because they're suppose to just cave in and give the owners 100% of what they want.

You can't refute the facts. This is a lockout, not a strike. Fact.
Bettman created the previous system. Fact.
The owners broke the system they said would work 8 years ago. Fact.
The owners are making none of the concessions. Fact.

That's the world we live in, business owners need to change and adjust to keep afloat and competitive, it sucks and happens to everyone, the company I work for is re-orging., people have lost jobs. I don't agree with the changes, my options are to deal with it or look for other opportunities. If the players don't agree they have the option to do the same. Or throw away 2 million avg salary you will not recoup again because fehr says you can get more. I hope 250 players never play again like last lockout, no sympathy here.
I bet if they voted, majority would accept the last deal
- senstroll

The world we live in bends over backwards to billionaires when they make mistakes? Sounds like it happens a lot. Doesn't make it right.

The NHL created a bad system, they abused that system and now they want somebody else to pay for it.

So the NHL is the only business that ever has to revisit their business model?
So the NHL Is the only business that ever has to cut expenses, cut people? reduce benefits or salaries?
- NightTrain_AlMo

They revisited their business model 8 years ago. They were 100% right to do so. But they said it would work. They said it would work for all 30 teams. They failed miserably. Now, they need to fix their own mistakes by punishing somebody else? Wake up.

Of course the PA was going to make concessions. Under the last CBA they took home nearly NINETY percent of the profit. That is not reasonable. You are welcome to feel differently, whatever.

90% of the profit? That is horribly wrong. It is also irrelevant because it has nothing to do with this CBA.

It is also wholly unreasonable to expect that ANY business will perfectly forsee the future and I don't recall the NHL making any such claims as to the enduring perfection of the last deal.

Finally... are you aware that the teams that "abused" (your words) the last CBA, are, in most cases, not the teams losing money.

The teams losing money spent more money than they had by signing players to ridiculous contracts. The Minnesota Wild sign Parise and Suter and then have the balls to walk into negotiations and say those types of deals should no longer be legal. Bullcrap.

its funny how that is also a pretty good list of some of the most mentally challenged people that post here too.
- prock

Can't be.... didn't see your name on there.

Can't be.... didn't see your name on there.
- burn

That's a good one. You're so clever.

One ranting paragraph of yours, let's list the problems shall we:

1) The PA also agreed to the last deal. The owners did not make it alone. The owners also made concessions, which is understandable considering the players took a rollback and the league got a cap system. Pretending the owners made the last deal all alone and this is the exact deal they wanted is, at best, revisionist history and at worst, idiocy.
- NightTrain_AlMo

The PA agreed to the last deal in what everybody saw as complete victory by the NHL. The NHL got everything they wanted. They got a 24% rollback. They got a salary cap. They got everything. Idiocy is the only thing you could use to describe anybody who thinks the NHL didn't "win" the last lockout.

2) Please provide a source for "working perfectly". While your at it, in order to actually make a solid argument, with an actual point, please provide a source where they said "perfectly" and "forever".

Gary Bettman. He said the last CBA they signed will work for all 30 teams and it's exactly what they needed to create a healthy NHL. Here we are 8 years later.

Bettman walked away from that mess with a labor contract that guaranteed players 54 percent of the league's revenues, as long as those revenues were less than $2.2 billion.

When that agreement was struck, Bettman said, "We're very confident that it will enable all teams to participate in the system in a constructive way."

http://sportsillustrated....-cancels-games/index.html

3) Create a system every 8 years? Are you aware that most business undergo more serious transformation within that time frame, not just a reduction of expenses.

Business' that record record growth every year have to recreate the system because the owners abused the system they created? Sure thing, happens every day.

4) Some of the franchises losing money are not in "sad sack" locations. Also, where are the willing and able owners in better locations? Maybe you want to see contraction instead? Yeah, let's lose PA jobs. That will help

The franchises losing the most money are in idiotic locations. The other franchises losing money can be fixed by going down from 57% down to 50%. The NHL just refuses to pay the players the money they already guaranteed them which is underhanded.

Gary Bettman. He said the last CBA they signed will work for all 30 teams and it's exactly what they needed to create a healthy NHL. Here we are 8 years later.
.
- Two_For_Truth

Did he really say that? Can you provide a link to that, I'd love to read it.

Did he really say that? Can you provide a link to that, I'd love to read it.
- prock

Read it and weep.

Bettman said he was there “to congratulate … all the NHL players, the greatest athletes in the world, for the incredible job and effort that they put out to help achieve this result. We stand here at a point where we can now together look forward in partnership to take our great game to spectacular heights. We can do it for the good of the game, and most importantly for our fans.”

“We’re fully committed to the new deal and we anticipate great success for the game as we go forward. Most importantly, I want to thank the fans for their patience through a winter with no hockey. We pledge our full commitment to you as we go forward.”

“From our standpoint, we believe that the agreement will give 30 stable, healthy, competitive teams and that the fans in all of our markets will have every opporltunity to think they have a shot at winning the cup,” Bettman said yesterday, and you can take it to the bank he’ll be saying the same thing when the board of governors ratifies the agreement today.

http://www.hockeyinsideou...ck-to-the-2004-05-lockout

The PA agreed to the last deal in what everybody saw as complete victory by the NHL. The NHL got everything they wanted. They got a 24% rollback. They got a salary cap. They got everything. Idiocy is the only thing you could use to describe anybody who thinks the NHL didn't "win" the last lockout.



Gary Bettman. He said the last CBA they signed will work for all 30 teams and it's exactly what they needed to create a healthy NHL. Here we are 8 years later.

Bettman walked away from that mess with a labor contract that guaranteed players 54 percent of the league's revenues, as long as those revenues were less than $2.2 billion.

When that agreement was struck, Bettman said, "We're very confident that it will enable all teams to participate in the system in a constructive way."

http://sportsillustrated....-cancels-games/index.html



Business' that record record growth every year have to recreate the system because the owners abused the system they created? Sure thing, happens every day.



The franchises losing the most money are in idiotic locations. The other franchises losing money can be fixed by going down from 57% down to 50%. The NHL just refuses to pay the players the money they already guaranteed them which is underhanded.
- Two_For_Truth

Read it and weep.

Bettman said he was there “to congratulate … all the NHL players, the greatest athletes in the world, for the incredible job and effort that they put out to help achieve this result. We stand here at a point where we can now together look forward in partnership to take our great game to spectacular heights. We can do it for the good of the game, and most importantly for our fans.”

“We’re fully committed to the new deal and we anticipate great success for the game as we go forward. Most importantly, I want to thank the fans for their patience through a winter with no hockey. We pledge our full commitment to you as we go forward.”

“From our standpoint, we believe that the agreement will give 30 stable, healthy, competitive teams and that the fans in all of our markets will have every opporltunity to think they have a shot at winning the cup,” Bettman said yesterday, and you can take it to the bank he’ll be saying the same thing when the board of governors ratifies the agreement today.

http://www.hockeyinsideou...ck-to-the-2004-05-lockout
- Two_For_Truth

Read it and weep.

Bettman said he was there “to congratulate … all the NHL players, the greatest athletes in the world, for the incredible job and effort that they put out to help achieve this result. We stand here at a point where we can now together look forward in partnership to take our great game to spectacular heights. We can do it for the good of the game, and most importantly for our fans.”

“We’re fully committed to the new deal and we anticipate great success for the game as we go forward. Most importantly, I want to thank the fans for their patience through a winter with no hockey. We pledge our full commitment to you as we go forward.”

“From our standpoint, we believe that the agreement will give 30 stable, healthy, competitive teams and that the fans in all of our markets will have every opporltunity to think they have a shot at winning the cup,” Bettman said yesterday, and you can take it to the bank he’ll be saying the same thing when the board of governors ratifies the agreement today.

http://www.hockeyinsideou...ck-to-the-2004-05-lockout
- Two_For_Truth

Read it and weep? ROFL, I read it and laughed at how you could possibly go find something that makes my point for me.

You said...

Blame Bettman and his dumbass legion of owners who created a system, said it would work perfectly
- Unholy_Goalie

1) compare your words to the actual words. Thanks for playing.

2) I asked you to find a reference to "forever". Without such a reference, then your point is meaningless. Things change. This is true for all businesses in all industries.

You provided no such reference.

Thanks for arguing against yourself.

Read it and weep? ROFL, I read it and laughed at how you could possibly go find something that makes my point for me.

You said...



1) compare your words to the actual words. Thanks for playing.

2) I asked you to find a reference to "forever". Without such a reference, then your point is meaningless. Things change. This is true for all businesses in all industries.

You provided no such reference.

Thanks for arguing against yourself.
- NightTrain_AlMo

I find it funny that he says it was Bettman's system, and the very source he provides says otherwise.

Read it and weep? ROFL, I read it and laughed at how you could possibly go find something that makes my point for me.

You said...

1) compare your words to the actual words. Thanks for playing.

2) I asked you to find a reference to "forever". Without such a reference, then your point is meaningless. Things change. This is true for all businesses in all industries.

You provided no such reference.

Thanks for arguing against yourself.
- NightTrain_AlMo

That's pretty much what he said. He said all 30 teams would be healthy and competitive. Sounds pretty perfect because if it actually worked out that way, there wouldn't be a lockout right now. Too bad he didn't realize how stupid his system was and how dumb his owners would be in abusing the rules of the system.

Thanks for proving yourself wrong.

I find it funny that he says it was Bettman's system, and the very source he provides says otherwise.
- prock

Wrong again. The last CBA was mostly created by the NHL. But I guess using your ass backwards logic, if the NHLPA created 10% of the last CBA that the other 90% that the NHL created isn't their fault.

What's really funny though is that you quoted Bettman thanking the NHLPA for "helping" when what he was really saying was "thanks for bending over and giving us everything we wanted".