By chance, did you just put your head through your monitor?
- prock

really? that sounded angry? apologies.

while i certainly think that douchebag is the biggest skid mark to ever find the internet under his little ghetto christmas tree.. i certainly thought i did a good enough job repping how hilarious i felt it was that his little fight with someone on the internet game is about as predictable as trying to figure out what letters can be found in a box of cheerios.

that, and i'm doing my part keeping his little internet fight boner in the game. as much disdain as i feel, i certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for another gentlemans internet fight blue balls.

Im with you. He just needs to be ignored. He is like a little puppy that needs attention.
- Cheeseballin

Agreed, or a spoiled kid that needs a slap on the ass.
(not promoting child abuse here), just saying.

Nope. We'll just start talking about someone else. The names are irrelevant. It sounds a little cliché, but it's not about who it is, it's what they do with the current set of names they have.

You take these names out of the equation, it wouldn't have made one lick of a difference. People wouldn't stop watching the NHL, because the NHL would still have the best players in the world. It would just be someone else.
- prock

Exactly.

Your opinion is fair, but I find this site is drastically pro-NHL. I just find it funny that when some of us give the PA at least some credit, we are cast ablaze as PA jock sniffers and we need to get our heads out of their idiot asses.

There's a lot A LOT of aspects in every bit of these negotiations and they affect different people differently. Personally, I could care less that players make millions, in fact I think they should. Other people, won't even watch the sport at the disgust of them making so much money. You are never going to convince the other to change there stance.

But I don't understand why people are so one sided on this. Both are to blame yet you are chastised should you dare point something out criminalizing to a persons favored side. This poll is ridiculous by EK, what a completely redundant question, neither care about hockey. Everyone knows that. It's not even relevant to the situation, it's just ammo to attack the other side. But it got this poster to post, so good job ek *slow clap*
- Boosinicka

Honestly Boos, look at the list of who the most prominent supporters of the PA here are. Someone posted it on a Leafs thread today I think. It was pretty funny.

You're missing the point. Names change. The fact that the best in the world play in the NHL doesn't.
- Canada Cup

That's exactly the point. You're not watching the NHL to watch Crosby, Stamkos, Ovechkin, specifically. You're watching because they're the best in the world. But, there will always be someone there, that is the best in the world. If Crosby and Ovechkin never came along, I don't think it would have changed anything over the past 10 years. We'd just be talking about Giroux and Stamkos instead.

You really have a thing for Ovechkin, don't you.... Do you touch yourself when he scores a goal?
- prock

no, no.. not so much. i can think about 20 players i prefer to watch over ovie. he's just a good example of an entertaining player who has drawn people to the game.

of course, if i had known you were going to suddenly turn into such an immature (frank)ing wiener over it, i certainly would have held back using the word respectfully. do you always turn into such a vagina when someone disagrees with you, yet still promotes the idea that you're entitled to your opinion?

good luck with that..

people skills, ftw.

Thank you for agreeing to the point i was making even when you were arguing against it. The problem for your argument is that the players (in principle) agree to go down to 50% so all they are fighting for is how they get to 50%. So, knowing that both sides agree to get down to 50% in the next few years, the players are clearly wrong. They had a chance not to lose any paychecks on current contracts, that is gone. They have also hurt revenue for the league which affects future contracts (knowing the future contracts will be at 50% of what revenue the league has) so they've clearly cost themselves money on that front. There is no "right" for the players.


- Flyers_01

How are the players clearly wrong? By not outright being bullied by the Owner's and outright accepting what the Owners want in how to get to 50/50? That's one of the most ridiculous thoughts I've read yet. And you again show you're absolute bias by stating that the players have hurt revenue for the League, and omitting the Owners role in that. You absolutely refuse to acknowledge the roll that the Owners have played in this. It's your opinion that there is no "right" for the players. You want to set your own parameters on that. The players have different thoughts on that.

I'd really love to hear from the NHLPA economic advisors because clearly they were absent the day that Fehr handed the league 3 half-assed ideas that he himself admitted that the NHLPA hadn't "run the numbers". Nor have I heard anything from the experts you claim the NHLPA has. If they are there, they aren't doing their job because the NHLPA has lost 100s of millions any way you look at it. See my response to paragraph 1.


- Flyers_01

Do you want to rehash negotiation techniques? They hadn't run the numbers because they didn't need to. Any economic experts the PA has wouldn't be calling the shots. They'd just be advising the players. How can you not understand that. Do you really think that the PA doesn't have a team of advisers behind the scenes? The NHL has a major law firm advising them in Proskauer-Rose. Have you heard anything from them?

The owners as a collective, the NHL BOG, have a better grasp and much higher focus on longterm viability of the league. The players, on a good day, are hoping to get the best deal they can short term. It's a constant struggle between the 2 sides. The problem occurs when there is a concept that may be in the best interest of the game but the union mentality, no matter who explains it to them, is that they will not willingly give management an inch. Unfortunately it's a fact of life today that most unions would rather have their companies go under than give management the benefit of the doubt. I've read cases where management has opened up their books to the union, said we can't operate at what we pay you, we need to lower employee expenses or we'll have to close. The union rejected that argument even after seeing the books, convinced that the owners had a second set of books and were lying to them. Two months later thousands of union workers were collecting unemployment because they refused to work with management and instead viewed management as the enemy.


- Flyers_01

I guess that's why the PA had to fight with the Owners to get them to increase Revenue Sharing. This Union is willing to take a lesser percentage of Revenue that is going to cost them significant amounts of money. Millions if not billions. So your statement that they won't give management an inch, is obviously incorrect and ignores the facts.
And if any side is viewing the other as the enemy, it is clearly the Owners that do so. With their repeated attempts to break the Union, including their latest farce to try and force the players to make a deal without Fehr present. As well as their current tactic of walking away from the table hoping for some destabilization to happen within the Union. So again, it seems that your clear bias keeps you from seeing reality.

My opinion is that the NHLPA has fought this past the point of reason, yours is otherwise. I've got math on my side. If the players believe in something other than math, I can't help that. We'll have to agree to disagree.


- Flyers_01

if you want to look at it from strictly a pure money situation. You might be right. But just like the last CBA, we need to see it play out to know for sure. There was never a doubt that the players were going to lose in this. It was just a question of how much.


Common sense requires you to make assumptions and you know what they say happens when you assume? The owners locked out the players based on FACTS. The fact that Fehr has gone on strike for the MLB playoffs in order to extort more from the owners. The fact is that math states the players have lost on the money issue regardless of whether or not they win on other issues. It's a fact that the player expenses were growing faster than revenues.



I don't have a problem with the NHL not agreeing to play while negotiating. That would've been a mistake on their part. But to blame the lockout on Fehr going on strike with MLB is pretty silly. The players were always going to lose on the money issue. We knew that before the lockout even started. Why were player expenses growing faster then revenue? Who created that. There's one thing that is constantly missing from all your replies. And that is the Owner's culpability in creating these issues that has led to a lockout.

Those are all facts unless you can imagine a plausible scenerio, at this point, where the players make more money than if they had signed at least one of the previous deals on the table

The owners aren't infallible. Some of them are extremely greedy, some are generous, some are ruthless but as a collective (the BOG) that have a very impressive well of experience in dealing with labor issues and are more capable of seeing the big picture than the vast majority of the players. They have no desire to punish the players. The players seem to be doing plenty of that to themselves. Maybe they are hiding money, if you could prove it the NHLPA would be eternally grateful but if you can't, let's not make assumptions.

The owners can't reign themselves in outside of the confines of the CBA and no CBA is ever going to be perfect. No human is perfect therefore no CBA can be perfect. Market conditions have changed, the CBA needs to reflect this reality. I have no problem with the NHLPA defending their members within reason but that time passed over a month ago. Now it's all about EGO, proving that that they can't be pushed around.
- Flyers_01

They have no desire to punish the players? Seriously? Then why is every so called solution they offer, have to do with taking from the players? LOL I couldn't disagree more that the time has passed for over a month ago for the NHLPA to be defending themselves within reason. As they just go another increase on Make Whole. So you're obviously incorrect.
The Owners are so very impressive with a well of experience in dealing with Labor issues, that the NHL is in it's 3rd lockout in 20 years. And is possibly looking at another cancelled Season in less then a decade. What are you missing here?
The Owner's absolutely can reign themselves in outside of the CBA. They just have proved unwilling to do so.
There's not Ego involved in the NHL here is there? Again, a clear bias showing.

really? that sounded angry? apologies.

while i certainly think that douchebag is the biggest skid mark to ever find the internet under his little ghetto christmas tree.. i certainly thought i did a good enough job repping how hilarious i felt it was that his little fight with someone on the internet game is about as predictable as trying to figure out what letters can be found in a box of cheerios.

that, and i'm doing my part keeping his little internet fight boner in the game. as much disdain as i feel, i certainly wouldn't want to be responsible for another gentlemans internet fight blue balls.
- joel878

It is way better to be the one ringing the bell than the one salivating.

Honestly Boos, look at the list of who the most prominent supporters of the PA here are. Someone posted it on a Leafs thread today I think. It was pretty funny.
- Aetherial

poop - you mean I'm not one of the cool kids?

it's an opinion dude, one you'll certainly never have the opportunity to back up.

i disagree, respectfully. your average every day hockey fan that doesn't spend hours discussing the sport on a website, will not be pvr'ing games when he doesn't have his crosby to root for. there is a big chunk of hockey fans who do not love the game because it's the game, and go watch major junior games, and everything else just for the sake of watching hockey. they watch the sport because they were half snapped at a bar and noticed someone like ovie mashing himself against the glass after a highlight reel goal. the players have drawing power on their own. that's the reality of it
- joel878

Maurice Richard, Marcel Dionne, MIke Bossy, Guy Lafleur, Pavel Bure etc
SOMEBODY will be the best player.
I wonder if the NHL will collapse the day after Ovi and Sid retire.
- braidan

Marty St Louis was the best player one year. The NHL couldn't market that midget for a free ice cream cone.

Sid and Ovie(prior to him getting a severe case of the Russian), are such elite players that they make the NHL money without any work on the part of the league. Their play and their dynamic abilities brings attention to the game on a continental level that 99% of the league couldn't bring it to.

Yeah, somebody will always be the best player but that's a ridiculous point to make and avoids the origin of the topic which was that Sid and Ovie make more money for the league than any other player in their career span could have. I'm pretty sure that nobody said the NHL would collapse when they retire but will there be two players who have the revenue generating success that these two have brought to the table? Not in the last 7 years, and counting.

no, no.. not so much. i can think about 20 players i prefer to watch over ovie. he's just a good example of an entertaining player who has drawn people to the game.

of course, if i had known you were going to suddenly turn into such an immature (frank)ing wiener over it, i certainly would have held back using the word respectfully. do you always turn into such a vagina when someone disagrees with you, yet still promotes the idea that you're entitled to your opinion?

good luck with that..

people skills, ftw.
- joel878

You refer to a lot of people as weiner. Actually, you use a different word, but it is still a bit of a concern.

Is there something about yourself that you have not yet been able to fully embrace?

It is way better to be the one ringing the bell than the one salivating.

- Aetherial

hey champ, whatever gets your fix.

where do i get my super dreamy man crush avatar picture? i've gotta rework my style now. just want to hang tough with the coolest guy on the hockey forum.

Holy sh&# he was writing the Iliad!

^.. a picture! a completely original, even more unexpected, shocking move. just when i had become completely lost wondering what your next move would be.

congratulations sir, you are officially the coolest poster in the hockey forum. subsequently, your real world every day life suddenly has more merit. no more getting talked about at the water cooler as the sheltered wierd guy who surely rubs it out at his desk for you! operation compensate, win.

i'm suddenly overwhelmed with this sheer level of coolness you bring to the hockey forum. so much so, i'm considering googling a picture of a dreamy man crush for my avatar picture. you are redefining how cool it is to be cool.


- joel878

Honestly girls, next you'll be challenging each other to a fight in the school parking lot... How about a little advice Joel... say more with less. You're trying to hard to be witty and cool yourself... it's not your strong suit.

poop - you mean I'm not one of the cool kids?
- Canada Cup

You also weren't on the list in question

no, no.. not so much. i can think about 20 players i prefer to watch over ovie. he's just a good example of an entertaining player who has drawn people to the game.

of course, if i had known you were going to suddenly turn into such an immature (frank)ing wiener over it, i certainly would have held back using the word respectfully. do you always turn into such a vagina when someone disagrees with you, yet still promotes the idea that you're entitled to your opinion?

good luck with that..

people skills, ftw.
- joel878

That sounded angry.

Marty St Louis was the best player one year. The NHL couldn't market that midget for a free ice cream cone.

Sid and Ovie(prior to him getting a severe case of the Russian), are such elite players that they make the NHL money without any work on the part of the league. Their play and their dynamic abilities brings attention to the game on a continental level that 99% of the league couldn't bring it to.

Yeah, somebody will always be the best player but that's a ridiculous point to make and avoids the origin of the topic which was that Sid and Ovie make more money for the league than any other player in their career span could have. I'm pretty sure that nobody said the NHL would collapse when they retire but will there be two players who have the revenue generating success that these two have brought to the table? Not in the last 7 years, and counting.
- trolleytracks

This won't be a popular opinion but I think Crosby is underpaid for how much money he makes for his employer.

hey champ, whatever gets your fix.

where do i get my super dreamy man crush avatar picture? i've gotta rework my style now. just want to hang tough with the coolest guy on the hockey forum.
- joel878

Admit it, you are googling bells and salivation now aren't you.

It's OK don't be afraid of learning something. A lot of us have a lifetime of it. You will get used to it, maybe, one day.

That sounded angry.
- prock

People skills ftw
-Joel878

Yes. I never said they weren't extremely skilled hockey players. The part you keep missing, the most relevant part, is that their skillset is only relevant within the confines of the NHL (north america). If they aren't playing in that venue, nobody cares about their skillset. The NHL will market the best players in the NHL whether they be Ovechkin or Malkin or someone else. You keep refusing to answer how not having Ovechkin and Malkin in the NHL makes them a secondary hockey league in North America. You have no argument which is why you keep dancing around the issue.

Instead of Ovechkin they would be promoting Shane Doan. Instead of Malkin they would've promoted Danial Alfredsson more. There's always players to promote. Always. Ovechkin and Malkin's skillsets don't matter one bit if they don't have a venue to showcase it in.
- Flyers_01

I don't refuse to answer how not having Ovechkin and Malkin in the NHL makes them a secondary hockey League in NA. I absolutely addressed that. You chose to ignore my thoughts on that. So I'll repeat it. I didn't state that it would be without those two players! LOL

Now your making my point. Doan and Alfreddsson are no where close to being as dynamic, exciting, and flamboyant on the ice as Malkin and Ovechkin are! What don't you get?

You refer to a lot of people as weiner. Actually, you use a different word, but it is still a bit of a concern.

Is there something about yourself that you have not yet been able to fully embrace?
- Aetherial

the taking someones words to insinuate someone is gay thing? i think once people started getting called out about that at age 14, it slowly went away. it's twice as pathetic as an adult.

"i noticed you said the word mom twice, so you must not have a problem with me smashing her vagina in" <---- really bad jokes that should be left in high school.

Marty St Louis was the best player one year. The NHL couldn't market that midget for a free ice cream cone.
.
- trolleytracks

So, like, one year. okay. Who were they marketing instead? I guarantee there was someone.

Yeah, somebody will always be the best player but that's a ridiculous point to make and avoids the origin of the topic which was that Sid and Ovie make more money for the league than any other player in their career span could have. I'm pretty sure that nobody said the NHL would collapse when they retire but will there be two players who have the revenue generating success that these two have brought to the table? Not in the last 7 years, and counting.
- trolleytracks

Oh I guarantee you there will be. They've always had someone to market.

the taking someones words to insinuate someone is gay thing? i think once people started getting called out about that at age 14, it slowly went away. it's twice as pathetic as an adult.

"i noticed you said the word mom twice, so you must not have a problem with me smashing her vagina in" <---- really bad jokes that should be left in high school.
- joel878

U are trying to hard lol

Honestly Boos, look at the list of who the most prominent supporters of the PA here are. Someone posted it on a Leafs thread today I think. It was pretty funny.
- Aetherial

I'll take a look, but I don't get why Fehr fronts %99 of the blame (well, there's speculation that this is the Luntz affect) but seriously, Bettman has to get his man panties on and get in the (frank)ing negotiating room. I don't care if he hates Fehr, deal with it and he'd have my respect in this.

Now, I say this and people will cast me out as a Fehr supporter and Richard sucker. I don't agree with everything he's done, he's just simply the guy at the negotiating table and I'm left wondering where the other guy is?