Most if not all of us are on the players side.
- Scooby_Doo

Dude, what are you reading to make that conclusion.........maybe go check tsn comment boards. They are the same people that comment here, or read this blog and view the poll results, either your just f'n with us, your ten or your just an idiot. I remember your lame poope during the first round of last years scp's so I'm going to guess.....idiot........if you are 10 then please accept my apology and please see recommendations above.

when was the last time the flyers won...pretty sure I wasn't alive so I don't know
- flashfire

I didn't mean a Cup.

I wasn't alive either. But, I can say that they have been a competitive team literally for my whole life except.....you know.....

In before the "You only win if you a Cup" garbage....

At the comment about most people being on the player's side!


- laughs2907

i was on the players' side up until last week. it was Bettman that takes the scortched earth strategy and just wait for them to starve first. it is Bettman who thinks it is good tactics to shut the game. Where I fault the players is, firstly, in highering Fehr and secondly, by not taking the deal last week. this conflict is over, but it is the Union, trying to get more, that is now holding things up. We were looking at a Dec. 20th start and a still respectable 56 game season. Now, you can pretty much kiss Dec. goodbye and have to settle for a tarnished, astrixed, laughable 45 game season. they blew it.

I didn't mean a Cup.

I wasn't alive either. But, I can say that they have been a competitive team literally for my whole life except.....you know.....

In before the "You only win if you a Cup" garbage....
- Giroux_Is_God

06-07 56 points...one of the worst seasons in history, thanks for coming out

06-07 56 points...one of the worst seasons in history, thanks for coming out
- flashfire

I already said "except for...you know....." and I even flat out said it in other posts. What else do you think I was referring to?

And bro- stop it. The Flyers have MISSED the playoffs...what? I'm too lazy to look it up. Can't be no more than 7 times in their SINCE THEIR FORMATION in 1967.

Thanks for coming.

The owners all have other businesses which allowed them to buy a NHL team. They can fudge numbers and make it look like they are losing money for tax reasons.

End of the day, owning a pro sports team is more of a status symbol for billionaires.
- Scooby_Doo

I'm surprised at how many people don't understand this. But I guess that's what happens when you flip burgers at mcdix for a loving or work in some office building...making less than 75Gs a year and think ya got Er all figured out. People smart enough to have billions in the first place are not dumb enough to lose millions a year continuously. They would gtfo.

I'm surprised at how many people don't understand this. But I guess that's what happens when you flip burgers at mcdix for a loving or work in some office building...making less than 75Gs a year and think ya got Er all figured out. People smart enough to have billions in the first place are not dumb enough to lose millions a year continuously. They would gtfo.
- I-own_da-Northwest

Boy oh boy, aren't you a genius... What do you think is happening right now? Are you under the impression that owners are satisfied with the current state of the league? I don't know if you noticed or not, but there's kind of a lockout happening.

Boy oh boy, aren't you a genius... What do you think is happening right now? Are you under the impression that owners are satisfied with the current state of the league? I don't know if you noticed or not, but there's kind of a lockout happening.
- laughs2907

Then fold the (frank)ing thing and try again in 5 years. It's a power struggle or a cock measuring contest no more...no less.

I'm surprised at how many people don't understand this. But I guess that's what happens when you flip burgers at mcdix for a loving or work in some office building...making less than 75Gs a year and think ya got Er all figured out. People smart enough to have billions in the first place are not dumb enough to lose millions a year continuously. They would gtfo.
- I-own_da-Northwest

i don't know about that. are you sure, or are you guessing they are so smart? In edmonton, where i live, the Oilers owners is proving to be not so smart when it comes to dealing with the public and the city counsel. Forbes numbers shows most NHL teams are only making a modest profit, breaking even or losing. i would say what makes billionaires different is not brains, but drive, lack of conscience and ruthlessness... and a bit of luck. brilliance? some, but not all. Gates is brilliant, Buffet. but are the Walton kids brilliant?

Eklund: Polling 50 Players on NHL's 3 Demands. Take Important Survey and Be Heard
- Eklund

It's what I have said all along.

The 3rd and 4th line grinders are fed up with this and need their paychecks and those last 3 sticking points do not affect them as much as the higher tier group of players.

The grinders are making a push and then I am sure soon enough will demand the higher end players as well as the Fehr's accept what the NHL has put in front of the players.

The %'s will win this battle which wil be the grinders.

I also said that if there will be hockey this season for those that still want to see a season , thank the grinders!

ok.

So MJL, you agree the players should only get 50% of future revenue in this CBA?

How is it the players are giving up 7% in this new CBA?

The 57% was for the previous CBA, so those conditions have proved untenable for the owners to keep operating under those terms in the CBA.

The owners are wanting to put in contract length and variation minimisation to help themselves stop from overspending. It is also a way to stop agents screwing the teams over. It wasn't the GM's that came up with the back loading contracts I bet you, it would have been the agents.

So you agree the system needs to be fixed, well the contract requests would be an attempt to fix the over spending, the owners asked for 50/50 split to enable them to increase their profits, so more teams are in the black and not the red. Theory being a team wont fold, therefore loss of player jobs.

You know what this is starting to turn into a rant, and really there is no point, you dont seem to want to accept that moving from one CBA to the next CBA is a total change of conditions. Fehr has used this terminology deliberately to give the perception the players are being hard done by.

they can have 57% of the previous CBA if they want, it is now expired so they can have 57% of $0.

Other option is to take 50% of future earnings and with projected grown actually have a larger pile of CASH for them even though it is a smaller PERCENTAGE of HRR. This lower percentage doesn't mean the players loose out or gave anything up. It means the market they work in has changed but they will still benefit out of it.


Hang On I said this was starting to rant, sorry. Just frustrating seeing people not understand the economics of this whole issue.
- walshy66

It's obvious that you don't understand the situation. Of all the people who support the PA, they all understand the economics. They all understand that corrections need to be made. But what some of the NHL supporters including yourself due to the comment that it was the Agents fault for the back loaded contracts. Fail to understand that it's not fixing the issues that we object to. It's how they want to fix the issues that we object to. It's the Owners wanting to take from the players in every area of the negotiation. In other words, just as you and others fail to place any of the responsibility on the Owners for the issues. You blame the Agents for the back diving deals. The Owners themselves don't want to take responsibility for the problems that they caused. They want somebody else to pay the bill! Not only that, but it's highly doubtful the Owners plan fixes anything going forward. It didn't the last time!
Contraction is not a reality at this point. So stop pretending the NHL is doing this to prevent teams from folding! They aren't. They're doing it to line the Owner's pockets. The Owners deserve to make money. But don't screw over your labor force to do it, by continually taking from them every time you screw up. That it what I'm fundamentally opposed to!
And you and others want to pretend that the last CBA and the percentage the players made never existed. Because it is convenient. But even though it is expired, it is a reference point in these negotiations. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that the players aren't giving anything up. They are making concessions to the owners that will cost the players millions, if not billions of dollars going forward. And that's all that Fehr is saying. And he's right, no matter how you want to spin it.

What are the Owners willing to do to fix the issues, other then to take from the players?

It's obvious that you don't understand the situation. Of all the people who support the PA, they all understand the economics. They all understand that corrections need to be made. But what some of the NHL supporters including yourself due to the comment that it was the Agents fault for the back loaded contracts. Fail to understand that it's not fixing the issues that we object to. It's how they want to fix the issues that we object to. It's the Owners wanting to take from the players in every area of the negotiation. In other words, just as you and others fail to place any of the responsibility on the Owners for the issues. You blame the Agents for the back diving deals. The Owners themselves don't want to take responsibility for the problems that they caused. They want somebody else to pay the bill! Not only that, but it's highly doubtful the Owners plan fixes anything going forward. It didn't the last time!
Contraction is not a reality at this point. So stop pretending the NHL is doing this to prevent teams from folding! They aren't. They're doing it to line the Owner's pockets. The Owners deserve to make money. But don't screw over your labor force to do it, by continually taking from them every time you screw up. That it what I'm fundamentally opposed to!
And you and others want to pretend that the last CBA and the percentage the players made never existed. Because it is convenient. But even though it is expired, it is a reference point in these negotiations. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that the players aren't giving anything up. They are making concessions to the owners that will cost the players millions, if not billions of dollars going forward. And that's all that Fehr is saying. And he's right, no matter how you want to spin it.

What are the Owners willing to do to fix the issues, other then to take from the players?
- MJL

I have never seen someone who has the time you have and also be as petulant as you are to others opinions and thoughts. Even when people agree with something you say, you reply to them as if they are less of a person than you are (i know this from previous experience when I actually commented that I agreed with something you said but you still continued on your high horse).

It is safe to say that your view on this situation is not entirely correct. Isn't it safe to say that you should stop trying to act like it is? Have a little humility and stop acting like a GD know it all, people have made some reasonable if not quality points in the last 10 pages and you continue to demonize and label them as wrong and mostly only back it up with your theories because you have no clue what either side really wants/is doing because they don't F'ng tell the general public.

You are not a higher being than everyone else. Period.

It's obvious that you don't understand the situation. Of all the people who support the PA, they all understand the economics. They all understand that corrections need to be made. But what some of the NHL supporters including yourself due to the comment that it was the Agents fault for the back loaded contracts. Fail to understand that it's not fixing the issues that we object to. It's how they want to fix the issues that we object to. It's the Owners wanting to take from the players in every area of the negotiation. In other words, just as you and others fail to place any of the responsibility on the Owners for the issues. You blame the Agents for the back diving deals. The Owners themselves don't want to take responsibility for the problems that they caused. They want somebody else to pay the bill! Not only that, but it's highly doubtful the Owners plan fixes anything going forward. It didn't the last time!
Contraction is not a reality at this point. So stop pretending the NHL is doing this to prevent teams from folding! They aren't. They're doing it to line the Owner's pockets. The Owners deserve to make money. But don't screw over your labor force to do it, by continually taking from them every time you screw up. That it what I'm fundamentally opposed to!
And you and others want to pretend that the last CBA and the percentage the players made never existed. Because it is convenient. But even though it is expired, it is a reference point in these negotiations. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that the players aren't giving anything up. They are making concessions to the owners that will cost the players millions, if not billions of dollars going forward. And that's all that Fehr is saying. And he's right, no matter how you want to spin it.

What are the Owners willing to do to fix the issues, other then to take from the players?
- MJL

Ceasing to collect more than their fair share is not footing the bill. It's ceasing to be the problem. Their salaries have been the problem for too long. They've walked off with way too much for far too long. Putting a stop to them robbing the coffers blind is not them footing the bill.

I have never seen someone who has the time you have and also be as petulant as you are to others opinions and thoughts. Even when people agree with something you say, you reply to them as if they are less of a person than you are (i know this from previous experience when I actually commented that I agreed with something you said but you still continued on your high horse).

It is safe to say that your view on this situation is not entirely correct. Isn't it safe to say that you should stop trying to act like it is? Have a little humility and stop acting like a GD know it all, people have made some reasonable if not quality points in the last 10 pages and you continue to demonize and label them as wrong and mostly only back it up with your theories because you have no clue what either side really wants/is doing because they don't F'ng tell the general public.

You are not a higher being than everyone else. Period.
- tboog6

I just ignore anything he types. He has no life , that much is clear!

I have never seen someone who has the time you have and also be as petulant as you are to others opinions and thoughts. Even when people agree with something you say, you reply to them as if they are less of a person than you are (i know this from previous experience when I actually commented that I agreed with something you said but you still continued on your high horse).

It is safe to say that your view on this situation is not entirely correct. Isn't it safe to say that you should stop trying to act like it is? Have a little humility and stop acting like a GD know it all, people have made some reasonable if not quality points in the last 10 pages and you continue to demonize and label them as wrong and mostly only back it up with your theories because you have no clue what either side really wants/is doing because they don't F'ng tell the general public.

You are not a higher being than everyone else. Period.
- tboog6

There is tons of information out there to make an informed opinion on what either side wants. I'm open to you telling me why I'm not entirely correct in my outlook on the lockout. But you didn't do that here. Why not? Instead you went and talked about the poster, and not the opinion of the poster. There's a reason why someone has to take that approach. So if you want to discuss the lockout, I'm game. if you want to get personal. I'm not interested.

Ceasing to collect more than their fair share is not footing the bill. It's ceasing to be the problem. Their salaries have been the problem for too long. They've walked off with way too much for far too long. Putting a stop to them robbing the coffers blind is not them footing the bill.
- prock

The players are the only side that is giving any concessions so far. The HRR and revenue percentage is not the only issues that are being negotiated.

The players haven't robbed the coffers blind. They've taken what the owners plan paid them.

The players are the only side that is giving any concessions so far. The HRR and revenue percentage is not the only issues that are being negotiated.

The players haven't robbed the coffers blind. They've taken what the owners plan paid them.
- MJL

SHUT UP.....

It's obvious that you don't understand the situation. Of all the people who support the PA, they all understand the economics. They all understand that corrections need to be made. But what some of the NHL supporters including yourself due to the comment that it was the Agents fault for the back loaded contracts. Fail to understand that it's not fixing the issues that we object to. It's how they want to fix the issues that we object to. It's the Owners wanting to take from the players in every area of the negotiation. In other words, just as you and others fail to place any of the responsibility on the Owners for the issues. You blame the Agents for the back diving deals. The Owners themselves don't want to take responsibility for the problems that they caused. They want somebody else to pay the bill! Not only that, but it's highly doubtful the Owners plan fixes anything going forward. It didn't the last time!
Contraction is not a reality at this point. So stop pretending the NHL is doing this to prevent teams from folding! They aren't. They're doing it to line the Owner's pockets. The Owners deserve to make money. But don't screw over your labor force to do it, by continually take from them every time you screw up.
And you and others want to pretend that the last CBA and the percentage the players made never existed. Because it is convenient. But even though it is expired, it is a reference point in these negotiations. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that the players aren't giving anything up. They are making concessions to the owners that will cost the players millions, if not billions of dollars going forward. And that's all that Fehr is saying. And he's right, no matter how you want to spin it.

What are the Owners willing to do to fix the issues, other then to take from the players?
- MJL

You still seem intent on convincing people that the owners are "screwing over" the players or as you put it in an earlier post, punishing them. I'm not going to address every issue here but I will say the owners aren't out to screw their players. Backdiving contracts are a huge problem, the Flyers are as guilty of that as anyone else. The problem here is that people are so focused about assigning blame for the problem. This is not a judicial case where the judge is going to award damages to one side or the other. This is about fixing the system going forward. You will never have a "perfect" CBA. Depending on whether the league grows or shrinks it will face different challenges. Adjustments will have to be made. The focus should be on how do we solve our problems not beating to death who was at fault. The agents as individuals are there to get the most for their clients. The GMs as individuals jobs are to assemble the best rosters they can within the confines of the CBA. The players themselves could give a rat's ass about the CBA when they are signing their contracts Everyone's at fault and assigning blame gets us no closer to a solution. While you focus angrily on how we got here, other people are trying to figure out how to move forward.

This is the one time in the whole process where everyone is supposed to be looking out for the league as a whole. This is the one time where it's about what's best for the league, not what's best for the individual owners or the individual players.

Regarding backdiving, if the NHLPA agrees that it's an issue, as you say, why aren't they pushing for that loophole to be closed? It's that simple, the NHLPA should be pushing for a 0% variance. As it stands, the players aren't trying to fix any issues. 5% may not solve everything but that's still more than the players are willing to do. The players have no desire to solve anything.

If the NHLPA supporters understand economics, I am still waiting to hear how the players are "winning" even with a "make whole" offer compared taking the owners 1 year transition from a month ago. Fehr can sell it to the players that he got them $300 mill while ignoring the fact he cost them $500 million. People who know how to add conclude the players lost the monetary battle even while the players call it a victory.

I have yet to hear anyone conclude that the players can make more money off of their proposal today than they could've off of the owners proposal a month ago. If the season does get canceled, everyone loses. The players biggest concern seems to have only one focus, that the owners not be deemed as winners, not what's best for them, nor what's best for the league.

It's obvious that you don't understand the situation. Of all the people who support the PA, they all understand the economics. They all understand that corrections need to be made. But what some of the NHL supporters including yourself due to the comment that it was the Agents fault for the back loaded contracts. Fail to understand that it's not fixing the issues that we object to. It's how they want to fix the issues that we object to. It's the Owners wanting to take from the players in every area of the negotiation. In other words, just as you and others fail to place any of the responsibility on the Owners for the issues. You blame the Agents for the back diving deals. The Owners themselves don't want to take responsibility for the problems that they caused. They want somebody else to pay the bill! Not only that, but it's highly doubtful the Owners plan fixes anything going forward. It didn't the last time!
Contraction is not a reality at this point. So stop pretending the NHL is doing this to prevent teams from folding! They aren't. They're doing it to line the Owner's pockets. The Owners deserve to make money. But don't screw over your labor force to do it, by continually taking from them every time you screw up. That it what I'm fundamentally opposed to!
And you and others want to pretend that the last CBA and the percentage the players made never existed. Because it is convenient. But even though it is expired, it is a reference point in these negotiations. So please stop with the ridiculous notion that the players aren't giving anything up. They are making concessions to the owners that will cost the players millions, if not billions of dollars going forward. And that's all that Fehr is saying. And he's right, no matter how you want to spin it.

What are the Owners willing to do to fix the issues, other then to take from the players?
- MJL

Never made it past that...

You still seem intent on convincing people that the owners are "screwing over" the players or as you put it in an earlier post, punishing them. I'm not going to address every issue here but I will say the owners aren't out to screw their players. Backdiving contracts are a huge problem, the Flyers are as guilty of that as anyone else. The problem here is that people are so focused about assigning blame for the problem. This is not a judicial case where the judge is going to award damages to one side or the other. This is about fixing the system going forward. You will never have a "perfect" CBA. Depending on whether the league grows or shrinks it will face different challenges. Adjustments will have to be made. The focus should be on how do we solve our problems not beating to death who was at fault. The agents as individuals are there to get the most for their clients. The GMs as individuals jobs are to assemble the best rosters they can within the confines of the CBA. The players themselves could give a rat's ass about the CBA when they are signing their contracts Everyone's at fault and assigning blame gets us no closer to a solution. While you focus angrily on how we got here, other people are trying to figure out how to move forward.

This is the one time in the whole process where everyone is supposed to be looking out for the league as a whole. This is the one time where it's about what's best for the league, not what's best for the individual owners or the individual players.

Regarding backdiving, if the NHLPA agrees that it's an issue, as you say, why aren't they pushing for that loophole to be closed? It's that simple, the NHLPA should be pushing for a 0% variance. As it stands, the players aren't trying to fix any issues. 5% may not solve everything but that's still more than the players are willing to do. The players have no desire to solve anything.

If the NHLPA supporters understand economics, I am still waiting to hear how the players are "winning" even with a "make whole" offer compared taking the owners 1 year transition from a month ago. Fehr can sell it to the players that he got them $300 mill while ignoring the fact he cost them $500 million. People who know how to add conclude the players lost the monetary battle even while the players call it a victory.

I have yet to hear anyone conclude that the players can make more money off of their proposal today than they could've off of the owners proposal a month ago. If the season does get canceled, everyone loses. The players biggest concern seems to have only one focus, that the owners not be deemed as winners, not what's best for them, nor what's best for the league.
- Flyers_01

Kudos to you for even knowing that there IS a difference!!

Miss USA is mostly about looks. There are three phases of competition all weighted equally - evenging gown, swimsuit and interview.

Miss America is more about the total package. There are five phases of competition - Talent at 35%, Interview at 25%, Evening Gown at 20%, Swimsuit at 15% and On Stage Question at 5%.

There are three things that really make the Miss Ameica system different...there is a talent portion, the interview is much more intense and, most imprtantly, it provides millions of dollars in scholarships not only to the winners, but runner ups, preliminary winners, etc. every year.

Neither system is necessarily "better" than the other. They are just different. There are girls that are successful only in one system, but there are many that crossover and are successful in both.

Hope this explains it

Kudos to you for even knowing that there IS a difference!!

Miss USA is mostly about looks. There are three phases of competition all weighted equally - evenging gown, swimsuit and interview.

Miss America is more about the total package. There are five phases of competition - Talent at 35%, Interview at 25%, Evening Gown at 20%, Swimsuit at 15% and On Stage Question at 5%.

There are three things that really make the Miss Ameica system different...there is a talent portion, the interview is much more intense and, most imprtantly, it provides millions of dollars in scholarships not only to the winners, but runner ups, preliminary winners, etc. every year.

Neither system is necessarily "better" than the other. They are just different. There are girls that are successful only in one system, but there are many that crossover and are successful in both.

Hope this explains it
- stormey

The players are the only side that is giving any concessions so far. The HRR and revenue percentage is not the only issues that are being negotiated.

The players haven't robbed the coffers blind. They've taken what the owners plan paid them.
- MJL

Stopping to pay them what they shouldn't have been getting paid in the first place is not a concession.

Never made it past that...
- laughs2907

The vast majority of them are morons that can barely string a sentence together.

Stopping to pay them what they shouldn't have been getting paid in the first place is not a concession.
- prock

Correct it's called oversight. This is a concept MJL is not willing to recognize.