Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings:CBA; Voracek and Briere in Action; Cousins; Power of 2

Great analysis of situation. I think it is spot on in explaining exactly where both sides stand today. Players today understand that there is a general framework for agreement on economic issues. Really important, Daly has let everyone know the owners have identified term at the general and the specific contract level as the hill they will defend in further discussions.

So, do the players continue the fight for a shorter general contract that authorizes longer term individual deals? There does not appear to be any other deal breakers on the horizon. I believe the impasse ends today because there is no place for either side to go and the distance between them is so short.

Great analysis of situation. I think it is spot on in explaining exactly where both sides stand today. Players today understand that there is a general framework for agreement on economic issues. Really important, Daly has let everyone know the owners have identified term at the general and the specific contract level as the hill they will defend in further discussions.

So, do the players continue the fight for a shorter general contract that authorizes longer term individual deals? There does not appear to be any other deal breakers on the horizon. I believe the impasse ends today because there is no place for either side to go and the distance between them is so short.
- spatso

I don't think there is any doubt that the impasse will end at some point. But I seriously doubt that it's today.

I don't think there is any doubt that the impasse will end at some point. But I seriously doubt that it's today.
- MJL

I don't know if there is a final deal today. But, the players have to decide on what they want to fight about. If, they are left fighting only for term and transition it is likely the impasse melts.

Last night it was reported that team reps were being canvassed by the NHLPA. We are very close to an end. It can fall apart. If it does it will be incredibly ugly and the season will be lost. On the other hand, you know that most players no longer have much stomach left for the fight. Much of their resolve was shaken when they saw the frustration of Burkle and Tannenbaum. They want to play and they want to find a way to get it done.

I don't know if there is a final deal today. But, the players have to decide on what they want to fight about. If, they are left fighting only for term and transition it is likely the impasse melts.

Last night it was reported that team reps were being canvassed by the NHLPA. We are very close to an end. It can fall apart. If it does it will be incredibly ugly and the season will be lost. On the other hand, you know that most players no longer have much stomach left for the fight. Much of their resolve was shaken when they saw the frustration of Burkle and Tannenbaum. They want to play and they want to find a way to get it done.
- spatso

I disagree completely that much of the players resolve was shaken. They are united. If that was the case, they'd take the owners deal on the table. I agree that they are definitely frustrated. As is the League. And certainly the fans.

If this is true, it's over.

@DarrenDreger: Mediator will speak with PA this morning. If he concludes a deal is close he will recommend meeting. Flip-side...neg returns to square 1.

If this is true, it's over.

@DarrenDreger: Mediator will speak with PA this morning. If he concludes a deal is close he will recommend meeting. Flip-side...neg returns to square 1.
- spatso

Yeah, that sounds ominous if both sides are as dug in as it appears.

Bill Meltzer: Meltzer's Musings:CBA; Voracek and Briere in Action; Cousins; Power of 2
- bmeltzer

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Yeah, that sounds ominous if both sides are as dug in as it appears.
- bmeltzer

It is an issue of proportionality. The mediator will precisely define the difference in the positions as it currently stands. The NHLPA and NHL will be faced with the stark reality of what is left undone. The players will know that term and transition is the hill they have also decided to die on (or not). I think the impasse ends today. It will be a month before the final draft of the contract is ready (but that is about legal detail and drafting and holidays). I think we hear both sides say they have a deal in principle.

They will play before the final contract is signed. The agreement on principle issues is sufficient to proceed with a starting date.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.
- Jsaquella

No it was those cheerleaders prancing around on stage last night...


I see no end in sight....each of them has won in the past and that's what it's all about...it's all about winning, not about getting a good deal.

I have really been impressed with the transformation of Hartnell. Great to see...

@DarrenDreger: NHL has delivered the message it is pretty much a take it or leave it, however, that doesn't mean the league won't trade on certain things.

This is very good. It means if you adopt our principle, we will adapt to your concern for the actual detail. Sounds like the NHL is trying to give the players a way to win the final point. This is a pretty standard labour relations tactic for both sides in the stretch drive. So far, the messages are starting real strong for a positive day.

I disagree completely that much of the players resolve was shaken. They are united. If that was the case, they'd take the owners deal on the table. I agree that they are definitely frustrated. As is the League. And certainly the fans.
- MJL

I dont know if they were shaken, but I would be willing to bet they are getting more and more frustrated with both sides. I know that there is no way that all of the players see eye to eye on this stuff. Hell most of the players aren't even directly affected by half of the poop being tossed around.

I have really been impressed with the transformation of Hartnell. Great to see...
- phi1671

I dont know if they were shaken, but I would be willing to bet they are getting more and more frustrated with both sides. I know that there is no way that all of the players see eye to eye on this stuff. Hell most of the players aren't even directly affected by half of the poop being tossed around.
- jak521

So true. "Winning" and "Solidarity" are the things the most important issues at play here. The substance was largely resolved already.

all of the semi-colons in your title should actually be commas

Heard on wgr550 here in Buffalo that a tweet came out from an agent or representative for the KHL I believe over in Europe.

In not so many words and not verbatim he said all NHL players have been put on notice that they will most likely be heading back to North America and their NHL teams within a week to 10 days.

I am not saying its true , just repeating what I heard from wgr550 here in Buffalo.

Saw this on one of EKs blogs

Any thoughts about this??

I thought I heard this samething last week also

all of the semi-colons in your title should actually be commas
- nathanjf

Thanks, Grammar Girl.

I dont know if they were shaken, but I would be willing to bet they are getting more and more frustrated with both sides. I know that there is no way that all of the players see eye to eye on this stuff. Hell most of the players aren't even directly affected by half of the poop being tossed around.
- jak521

I can pretty much tell you that back in October that all 700+ players didn't see eye to eye on this stuff. I'm sure many have changed their opinion as it went along also. But all indications are that the PA is united and standing together. And will live or die together.

Thanks; Grammar Girl.
- Scoob

fixed

the boys are dug in for a long one

It is an issue of proportionality. The mediator will precisely define the difference in the positions as it currently stands. The NHLPA and NHL will be faced with the stark reality of what is left undone. The players will know that term and transition is the hill they have also decided to die on (or not). I think the impasse ends today. It will be a month before the final draft of the contract is ready (but that is about legal detail and drafting and holidays). I think we hear both sides say they have a deal in principle.

They will play before the final contract is signed. The agreement on principle issues is sufficient to proceed with a starting date.
- spatso

I disagree that there's an agreement reached today; the NHLPA still doesn't have a drop-dead date, and even though the NHL has said "this is it, we're not giving any more" they've said that previously and proceeded to give a little more. I just don't see Fehr looking at the dollars potentially being lost and saying, "OK - we really can't gain much more, let's do this." For him, it is (and always has been, and always will be) about principle and "how much more blood can I squeeze out of the turnip?"

You're right about them playing before the actual final document is finished, though. They'll agree on the points, sign a memo of understanding, and then crank things up and let the lawyers debate the language in the final document. (Everyone, look forward to even more legalese as you try to decipher the next CBA!)

@DarrenDreger: Well, one side says there was a meeting this am and now the other side says there wasn't. Somewhat humorous.

Becoming priceless.

This really is over. Both sides are just trying to sort out the final PR.

I assume it is the PA trying to show its members that it is close to having a deal (same as Fehr presser of last Thursday) and the league saying they need more agreement on final principles before they will make nice.

I think the break through comes later today.

I disagree that there's an agreement reached today; the NHLPA still doesn't have a drop-dead date, and even though the NHL has said "this is it, we're not giving any more" they've said that previously and proceeded to give a little more. I just don't see Fehr looking at the dollars potentially being lost and saying, "OK - we really can't gain much more, let's do this." For him, it is (and always has been, and always will be) about principle and "how much more blood can I squeeze out of the turnip?"

You're right about them playing before the actual final document is finished, though. They'll agree on the points, sign a memo of understanding, and then crank things up and let the lawyers debate the language in the final document. (Everyone, look forward to even more legalese as you try to decipher the next CBA!)
- Irish Blues

Bettman will not do a drop dead date. He is refusing to negotiate until terms and transition is agreed upon through the mediator. If you take Fehr at his word economic issues are essentially settled. It is entirely up to the players this morning. What do they want on term? Bettman will not discuss transition if Fehr wants to use it to wedge open other economic issues.